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Thread: Science or larceny ?

  1. #1
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Science or larceny ?

    Is this yet another new method to isolate the fool from his/her hard earned cash?

    Neurolens and SightSync. Check it out here: https://www.neurolenses.com/
    Last edited by rbaker; 05-10-2018 at 06:26 AM.

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    Direct to consumer marketing and I haven't heard about it in any medical journal or even optiboard? I'll vote fraud.

  3. #3
    One eye sees, the other feels. OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    Is this yet another new method to isolate the fool fromhis/her hard earned cash?

    Neurolens and SightSync. Check it out here: https://www.neurolenses.com/
    Science, but with a very small audience.

    https://visionhelp.wordpress.com/201...ressive-prism/
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    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    It is easier to fool a man, than to convince a man he has been fooled. -Mark Twain

  4. #4
    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    I like how the first FAQ is "Why isn't this covered by insurance?"

    This is what I found most interesting in figuring out what the lens does- since it is not spelled out for us:

    "There are no known, lasting, negative side effects from using neurolenses; however, some patients may experience a slight disorientation the first time they try them on. Because neurolenses are adjusting the way your eyes communicate with your brain, they may take a short time to get used to. Once you have become accustomed to this change, there are no known, lasting, negative side effects. (The adaptation process is similar but may be stronger than that of adjusting to progressive lenses for the first time)."

    .....what?


    " When the misalignment is corrected with neurolenses, your visual system doesn’t need to work as hard, relieving your symptoms."

    ....ah-huh.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

  5. #5
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Izon 2.0.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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    Dr. Karpecki is well published, so I respect his opinion.

    To my knowledge, this is the first progressive prism lens. The theory behind the technology is sound. Time will tell if patients don't "eat" the prism and it loses effectiveness over time.

  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pknsbeans View Post
    Dr. Karpecki is well published, so I respect his opinion.

    To my knowledge, this is the first progressive prism lens. The theory behind the technology is sound. Time will tell if patients don't "eat" the prism and it loses effectiveness over time.
    Holy crap! As if we ain't got enough "issues" with progressive lenses we are going to add prism to the equation.

    Well, back in the day, we found that "SV computer lenses" with just a hint of prism were of no noticeable benefit to the patient. Didn't sell in subsequent glasses. Another corpse of road kill along the eye care highway.

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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    It looks from the website like you need to invest in a specialized piece of fitting equipment to dispense this lens. That's always a red flag for me.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    It's crap. Don't worry.

    Here's how you can tell, without even bothering to break it down:

    "Neuro-" anything. Mysterious. Powerful. Scary.

    The idea of progressive prism is neat, however. Is that do-able, now?

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    So is this just base in prism in the corridor and near? Wouldn't adjust the near PD with a variable inset progressive accomplish the same thing without the prism needed?

    edit- the more I think about this the more wrong I think I am....

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    IMO it sounds useful for SV wearers that have binocular vision issues at near. Instead of prescribing an add power for someone with convergence excess/insufficiency and no accommodative issue, a progressive prism COULD be useful.

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    "Overstimulation of the trigeminal nerve...."
    Last edited by Skol; 08-04-2020 at 11:48 AM.

  13. #13
    Rising Star walleye's Avatar
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    Is that Kodak progressive lens with the base in prism still made? I see many older patients with very high exophoria at near. Sometimes around 12-16 base in and clearly seen on a near cover test. So base in prism at near would be well tolerated.

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    Master OptiBoarder tx11's Avatar
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    Alright people..I was just informed that we may begin using this lens/instrument. Any updates...experiences?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post
    It looks from the website like you need to invest in a specialized piece of fitting equipment to dispense this lens. That's always a red flag for me.
    I think I still have a Grolman Fitting Device if anyone wants to fit AO Ultravue lenses.
    Last edited by waynegilpin; 08-09-2020 at 10:24 AM.

  16. #16
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynegilpin View Post
    I think I still have a Grolman Fitting Device is anyone wants to fit AO Ultravue lenses.
    I have a doctor friend who still uses their iZon machine as an autorefractor.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  17. #17
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    I've had extensive discussions with the representatives of this company.

    In a nutshell, it's a rip-off. Sorry.

    Here's who it would work for: 1. the convergence-insufficient presbyope (rare, rare), 2. the convergence-insufficient/accommodative insufficient (CI/AI) (pediatric cases, usually).

    The rest is fairy dust.

    And no special diagnostic equipment is needed. Traditional methods would be great. But they hook you with the expensive equipment, plus you pay them on each lab job.

    As was said upthread, they have purchased Kodak's old patent (I called Kodak) for variable prism in the near portion of a progressive. It has a maximum of a couple of prism diopters, too, so don't expect more than about 3^ BI total, which is enough for mild/ moderate cases.


    Having said that, it would have some application in some cases. But they have created a "syndrome" (like everyone else) and are selling the "cure". It's highly, highly, highly dishonest. There's a sucker OD (and I've heard sucker OMDs) born every minute. Seems like you work for one.

    If your boss wants to talk to me about it, let me know. I can back this up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    I've had extensive discussions with the representatives of this company.

    In a nutshell, it's a rip-off. Sorry.

    Here's who it would work for: 1. the convergence-insufficient presbyope (rare, rare), 2. the convergence-insufficient/accommodative insufficient (CI/AI) (pediatric cases, usually).

    The rest is fairy dust.

    And no special diagnostic equipment is needed. Traditional methods would be great. But they hook you with the expensive equipment, plus you pay them on each lab job.

    As was said upthread, they have purchased Kodak's old patent (I called Kodak) for variable prism in the near portion of a progressive. It has a maximum of a couple of prism diopters, too, so don't expect more than about 3^ BI total, which is enough for mild/ moderate cases.


    Having said that, it would have some application in some cases. But they have created a "syndrome" (like everyone else) and are selling the "cure". It's highly, highly, highly dishonest. There's a sucker OD (and I've heard sucker OMDs) born every minute. Seems like you work for one.

    If your boss wants to talk to me about it, let me know. I can back this up.
    Hello My name is AB i am interested in having a conversation about this neurolens. I am an optician out her in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

  19. #19
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Ok, what would you like to know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    I've had extensive discussions with the representatives of this company.

    In a nutshell, it's a rip-off. Sorry.

    Here's who it would work for: 1. the convergence-insufficient presbyope (rare, rare), 2. the convergence-insufficient/accommodative insufficient (CI/AI) (pediatric cases, usually).

    The rest is fairy dust.

    And no special diagnostic equipment is needed. Traditional methods would be great. But they hook you with the expensive equipment, plus you pay them on each lab job.

    As was said upthread, they have purchased Kodak's old patent (I called Kodak) for variable prism in the near portion of a progressive. It has a maximum of a couple of prism diopters, too, so don't expect more than about 3^ BI total, which is enough for mild/ moderate cases.


    Having said that, it would have some application in some cases. But they have created a "syndrome" (like everyone else) and are selling the "cure". It's highly, highly, highly dishonest. There's a sucker OD (and I've heard sucker OMDs) born every minute. Seems like you work for one.

    If your boss wants to talk to me about it, let me know. I can back this up.
    @drk I was getting a second opinion in Columbus, OH for my computer vision syndrome/migraine symptoms and the doc prescribed Neurolenses. I'm very skeptical but I'm desperate due to frequent eyestrain and migraines (computer programmer) and reading glasses with prism aren't helping (or aren't helping enough). Doc #2 said I have divergence insufficiency and different prism would be needed at near vs. far, Neurolenses may help. Felt like a sales pitch, not covered by insurance. Do you by chance practice in Columbus, or know a trusted doc I could talk to about this in Cbus? Looking for any input on navigating this wisely, as may others who come upon this page.

    Scouring the web for info on legitimacy of Neurolenses, this thread is one of the only threads I can find that are real discussion and not testimonials or marketing. Neurolenses are being sold at 3 practices in Columbus currently, so I'm guessing many others across the country are wondering about the legitimacy of Neurolenses too.
    Last edited by daedalus1115; 12-31-2020 at 07:31 PM. Reason: clarification

  21. #21
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    As per the forum rules which you agreed to when registering, this forum is for eyescare professionals only. Please contact a qualified eyesore professional for any questions of help you may require.

    Quote Originally Posted by daedalus1115 View Post
    @drk I was getting a second opinion in Columbus, OH for my computer vision syndrome/migraine symptoms and the doc prescribed Neurolenses. I'm very skeptical but I'm desperate due to frequent eyestrain and migraines (computer programmer) and reading glasses with prism aren't helping (or aren't helping enough). Doc #2 said I have divergence insufficiency and different prism would be needed at near vs. far, Neurolenses may help. Felt like a sales pitch, not covered by insurance. Do you by chance practice in Columbus, or know a trusted doc I could talk to about this in Cbus? Looking for any input on navigating this wisely, as may others who come upon this page.

    Scouring the web for info on legitimacy of Neurolenses, this thread is one of the only threads I can find that are real discussion and not testimonials or marketing. Neurolenses are being sold at 3 practices in Columbus currently, so I'm guessing many others across the country are wondering about the legitimacy of Neurolenses too.


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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    As per the forum rules which you agreed to when registering, this forum is for eyesore professionals only. Please contact a qualified eyesore professional for any questions of help you may require.
    Well I certainly qualify for that title, I haven’t shaved in two months!

  23. #23
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    Well I certainly qualify for that title, I haven’t shaved in two months!


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    OptiBoardaholic Randle Tibbs, ABOM's Avatar
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    I have one in my office now. a few years back, i was giving a lecture on freeform technology and pulled it and asked if everyone had one. needless to say, mostly blank looks with a few chuckles from some of the older opticians.

  25. #25
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    This is definitely technologically interesting, but it's not new, and they've created a strange new disorder "trigeminal dysphoria".

    In total, it's a PAL with about 1^ BI on each lens in the near zone, only.

    In sum they are creating a technically-cool sounding disorder, promising to cure all sorts of symptoms, and delivering a unique-enough but not necessarily helpful solution.

    What's more, they get the prescribers to make a big financial committment up front (this expensive yet utterly unnecessary diagnostic equipment--which is a dog and pony show for patients and prescribers) and then the docs are looking to solve humanity's problems (for a pretty penny, too).

    It's rank medical profiteering, I'm sorry. I'm not indicting as crooks everyone who "believes in it", but just trying to stand for a reasonably scientific standard of care.

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