The Pitfalls of online Selling prescription Eyeglasses online....

[Browman]

Please do not take this personally. Im trying very hard to be civil about this.

No, you aren't. Or you aren't trying very hard. You have been rude, sarcastic, made baseless accusations against other board members, repeatedly bogged this thread (and others) with sweeping generalized statements that carry no evidence, and generally been an unpleasant individual with whom to enter civil discourse. Don't play the innocent victim or simple curiosity seeker. If you're going to act the way you have, you don't get to pretend otherwise.

[Steve Machol]

Please knock off the personal insults. Thank you.

[Browman]

Please knock off the personal insults. Thank you.

I appreciate your concern with the integrity of these boards, and understand if this is a general admonition to members for civility. However, I cannot recall my personally ever insulting other members, and certainly not in this thread. Conversely, CNG has made accusations against me which could potentially damage my standing with the OptiBoard community, whilst simultaneously attempting to distance himself from these attacks. If no administrators are going to call him out on this behavior, I am going to act to aggressively protect my reputation here.

[CNG]

Browman, I am not innocent and I have been the block a few times. I represent a segment of our industry that believes exactly what I believe. You on the other hand represent an opportunistic ideal that is by no means in the best interest of the public. You seem to attack on every occasion the sweat and equity sweat that real opticians have put into their stores by stating your erroneous views about online. I on the other hand have said exactly what I meant. You on the other hand try to "put down" every B & M. You did it plainly with Robert for agreeing with me on the importance of correct measurements and the importance of adjustments. You have a hidden agenda here and quite frankly every optician that have read your posts will agree that you dislike B & M.
You and your type of defense for an online discounter is simply a pebble in the shoe to our industry.

You are trying to force on hard working opticians the concept that online is acceptable that there is no down side to it. There is a downside to it and that is that proper measurements cannot be separated from the actual frame selection, the verification process and above all the adjustment of the frame. Online on the other hand when something goes wrong cannot trouble shoot what went wrong and correct the problem.
When licensed opticians with too many letter after their names agrees with your insults in disguise of B & M and "just like an optician" comments then I see where their heart are. I went to school for this profession and invested time and money to learn. I believe bucko that eyes are very important and people should not be negated the services of competent opticians and that regulations are there to protect the public. I for one will never concede that we lost the battle. I will point out what is wrong with online selling of eyewear. I believe in opticianry, I believe in providing quality care. If I came across as rude for stating my views I apologize to everyone except you.

CNG

[Steve Machol]

I appreciate your concern with the integrity of these boards, and understand if this is a general admonition to members for civility. However, I cannot recall my personally ever insulting other members, and certainly not in this thread. Conversely, CNG has made accusations against me which could potentially damage my standing with the OptiBoard community, whilst simultaneously attempting to distance himself from these attacks. If no administrators are going to call him out on this behavior, I am going to act to aggressively protect my reputation here.

Why do you assume that was directed at you? Also why do you assume that we have not contacted each person who has been violating the civility guidelines?

[Browman]

Browman, I am not innocent and I have been the block a few times. I represent a segment of our industry that believes exactly what I believe. You on the other hand represent an opportunistic ideal that is by no means in the best interest of the public. You seem to attack on every occasion the sweat and equity sweat that real opticians have put into their stores by stating your erroneous views about online. I on the other hand have said exactly what I meant. You on the other hand try to "put down" every B & M. You did it plainly with Robert for agreeing with me on the importance of correct measurements and the importance of adjustments. You have a hidden agenda here and quite frankly every optician that have read your posts will agree that you dislike B & M.
You and your type of defense for an online discounter is simply a pebble in the shoe to our industry.

You are trying to force on hard working opticians the concept that online is acceptable that there is no down side to it. There is a downside to it and that is that proper measurements cannot be separated from the actual frame selection, the verification process and above all the adjustment of the frame. Online on the other hand when something goes wrong cannot trouble shoot what went wrong and correct the problem.
When licensed opticians with too many letter after their names agrees with your insults in disguise of B & M and "just like an optician" comments then I see where their heart are. I went to school for this profession and invested time and money to learn. I believe bucko that eyes are very important and people should not be negated the services of competent opticians and that regulations are there to protect the public. I for one will never concede that we lost the battle. I will point out what is wrong with online selling of eyewear. I believe in opticianry, I believe in providing quality care. If I came across as rude for stating my views I apologize to everyone except you.

CNG

You're walking very close to the line of libel with statements such as these.

[Browman]

Why do you assume that was directed at you? Also why do you assume that we have not contacted each person who has been violating the civility guidelines?

It was posted directly after my comment, and I believed that it was in direct reply to that post, as opposed to simply chronologically following it. CNG's repeated uncivility and behavior that many here view as trolling also indicated that he had not been reprimanded.

[CNG]

i have been reprimended. My apology to you.

CNG

[MikeAurelius]

Browman, I am not innocent and I have been the block a few times. I represent a segment of our industry that believes exactly what I believe. You on the other hand represent an opportunistic ideal that is by no means in the best interest of the public. You seem to attack on every occasion the sweat and equity sweat that real opticians have put into their stores by stating your erroneous views about online. I on the other hand have said exactly what I meant. You on the other hand try to "put down" every B & M. You did it plainly with Robert for agreeing with me on the importance of correct measurements and the importance of adjustments. You have a hidden agenda here and quite frankly every optician that have read your posts will agree that you dislike B & M.
You and your type of defense for an online discounter is simply a pebble in the shoe to our industry.

You are trying to force on hard working opticians the concept that online is acceptable that there is no down side to it. There is a downside to it and that is that proper measurements cannot be separated from the actual frame selection, the verification process and above all the adjustment of the frame. Online on the other hand when something goes wrong cannot trouble shoot what went wrong and correct the problem.
When licensed opticians with too many letter after their names agrees with your insults in disguise of B & M and "just like an optician" comments then I see where their heart are. I went to school for this profession and invested time and money to learn. I believe bucko that eyes are very important and people should not be negated the services of competent opticians and that regulations are there to protect the public. I for one will never concede that we lost the battle. I will point out what is wrong with online selling of eyewear. I believe in opticianry, I believe in providing quality care. If I came across as rude for stating my views I apologize to everyone except you.

CNG

You really need to chill the heck out. Painting everyone who disagrees with you with the same brush is flat out WRONG.

Most of us "get" that you don't like on-liners and most of us "get" your reasoning. There is absolutely no reason to keep on belaboring the point and starting a new thread every time you feel the need to rant on this topic.

But, you need to understand that on-liners are not going to go away, especially with Essilor themselves the biggest of them all. Do you honestly believe that you can stop the Big E once it sets its corporate mind on something? Talk about a pebble in your shoe...

As I've said before, many times now, learn to adapt or die like a dinosaur. This is no longer the 1960's where you control every single patient's information that comes in the door. And I will remind you once again that your negative attitude towards on-liners and the way you speak out against them, lies and all, is one of the things that could very well drive the FTC towards a PD rule declaring that the PD is part of the prescription and requiring that it be released. They could even call it the CNG Rule. Additionally, as I've said several times, your outright lies about the on-line industry could lead you to a lawsuit. This is a forum that is open to anyone to read. A curious person most likely would not have much problem figuring out exactly who CNG is, where his business is, and setting up an opportunity for you to put your foot in your mouth with a live in-person customer. But hey, if that's the road you want to walk down, by all means, keep on spouting your nonsense.

[MikeAurelius]

I appreciate your concern with the integrity of these boards, and understand if this is a general admonition to members for civility. However, I cannot recall my personally ever insulting other members, and certainly not in this thread. Conversely, CNG has made accusations against me which could potentially damage my standing with the OptiBoard community, whilst simultaneously attempting to distance himself from these attacks. If no administrators are going to call him out on this behavior, I am going to act to aggressively protect my reputation here.

As someone who has, in the past, been the subject of warnings and a banning, believe me, you will know it when it happens. Don't take this personally, think of it as a reminder to keep it civil and keep it professional regardless of the circumstances.

Yes, call out a lie. Yes, call out a misconception. Just keep it civil.

[Steve Machol]

It was posted directly after my comment, and I believed that it was in direct reply to that post, as opposed to simply chronologically following it. CNG's repeated uncivility and behavior that many here view as trolling also indicated that he had not been reprimanded.

For reference, when I will quote a message if I'm referring specifically to that post. Otherwise it will just be a general comment for everyone to observe.

[MakeOptics]

Now I officially hate this thread a lot of chapped behinds and I didn't get my spankin.

I get how the topic causes a lot of emotion as it should but all that bravado aside what is your personal plan to stop online dispensing?

I don't think it can be done, so on the brick and mortar side I would personally offer patients a chance to fix mistakes made by onliners and capture a new demographic.

[Johns]

I get how the topic causes a lot of emotion as it should but all that bravado aside what is your personal plan to stop online dispensing?

The same way we stopped lasik surgery!

[MikeAurelius]

The same way we stopped lasik surgery!

*snort*

[Barry Santini]

Your plan shoud not be about online dispensing. It should be about leveraging how online eyewear/sunwear completely removes any part of our consultation, assistance, warrantee, adjustment, repair and convenience function from the price...thereby setting up the reason people shoud pay more in your store.

The question is how much more.

Painting all online eyewear with the simplistic broad brushstroke of bad vs. good completely shuts out the graduated areas in between. So if John Q discovers online/cheap/OTC eyewear as functional/not harmful, you've not only lost the argument, you've lost your credibility.

B

[tx11]

I agree. The question is how much more. All the the things you stated cost money to provide and are worth paying for IF they are desired by and/or deemed necessary by the consumer in order to see well.

[idispense]

There are only two pitfalls of online selling that escape all of you and these are the only two that should concern you:

(1) believing that it can't be done

(2) believing that it can't be changed

[Wes]

There are only two pitfalls of online selling that escape all of you and these are the only two that should concern you:

(1) believing that it can't be done

(2) believing that it can't be changed

Neither of these have escaped many here, but thanks for talking down to us again.

[anthonyf1509]

The question is how much more?

B

Barry,
just curious, lets say hypothetically you have a pair of Wayfarer whatevers on the shelf at $200.
if I'm a walk in client, and with a friend, I say excuse me sir? I saw this exact pair online for $120. Would you sell them to me for that much?
1. Do you?
2. Why or why not?
3. Would you consider a pricing structure that incorporates "your" value and one that doesn't? If someone was willing to forgo any follow up with the purchase?

this goes for anyone reading. Just curious, want to get the juices flowing. Please all chime in. Id like to hear from all the "I'm too valuable to do that" people. Or the "tell them to get it online then and leave" people. Tell me why?

[Barry Santini]

I handle it this way:

i ask them where they would choose to buy them it my price was exactly the same as online.

and why.

they, of course, fall into this subtle trap and do all the talking in my behalf, rather than me.

works like a charm.

b

[Johns]

works like a charm.b

Yes, but how often?

What if the only value they perceive in your office is that of an "e-display", that is, try it here, buy it there?

[Chris Ryser]

Coastal.com Exceeds 2,000,000 Facebook Fans	05/02/2013
Download this Press Release
VANCOUVER, British Columbia, May 2, 2013 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Coastal Contacts Inc. ("Coastal.com") (Nasdaq:COA) (TSX:COA), the leading online retailer of glasses, sunglasses and contact lenses, announced today that its web sites have now attracted more than two million "fans" on Facebook, the leading social media platform on the Web. "The Coastal.com marketing team has been very successful utilizing social media to share information and create a community of Coastal.com customers," commented Roger Hardy, Coastal.com's founder and CEO. "This growing base of customers is a significant competitive advantage that we believe will pay dividends in the future, as it allows us to communicate offers efficiently, creating repeat customers and allowing them to share their experiences with friends and family." Aaron Magness, Coastal.com's VP, Marketing commented, "Coastal.com has by far the largest community of Facebook fans in the online optical category, providing a powerful platform to communicate with those customers and their friends. Our surveys indicate that customers buying from Coastal.com are up to three times as happy when compared with buying from traditional retail channels. That is definitely something worth sharing." On January 18, 2013 the Company reported that Coastal.com was ranked #3 overall on the Web in the 2013 Social Media 300 rankings by industry leading Internet Retailer magazine.

[MikeAurelius]

You *do* realize that there is absolutely NO CONNECTION between an actual customer base and FaceBook "likes", don't you?

[Barry Santini]

Yes, but how often?

What if the only value they perceive in your office is that of an "e-display", that is, try it here, buy it there?

So far... not an issue. Maybe its my charisma!

B

[Stan Tabor]

You *do* realize that there is absolutely NO CONNECTION between an actual customer base and FaceBook "likes", don't you?

And judging from the number of unsolicited Coastal ads I see on facebook, they must spend a small fortune on facebook advertising to generate a significant portion of these "likes".