Has anybody been running into a problem with non-adapts with the new Panamic lens.
My problem is with previous Varilux wearers, not new wearers. My best quess is that they are not adapting to the Poly.
I've been fitting Varilux since the '70's and haven't had as many rejections as with this lens, OK, with the exception of the Ultravue.......
I believe the UltraVue was an AO lens, not Varilux.
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Steve
OptiBoard Administrator
I also have had a few Non - adapts. Much more than my usual which is next to none. I believe it is the work of the evil material poly at work. I don't use much poly but have been trying it out since that is our new material of the future. I have been fitting pals since early 80's and have never had a fitting problem, until the new airware panamic. Haven't had a problem with the 1.60
lens. Go figure.
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I have been fitting Varilux for ages with no problems. All of a sudden the Panamic comes out and I have had a bunch of Non-adapts. I switched them over to the Life II and have had great results. I fit all in the Life II now and have super results. How ever, all of a sudden we have a 3 week backorder on all life II lenses. Must be Murphy's Law.
Jim, If it's not one thing, it's another, Seebach
Ditto,
I've tried a few and remade every one so far. I haven't given up on it yet but am very leary anytime the option presents itself.
Darris "Not fond of the Panamic" Chambless
Same Here:
I think it's the Poly. Had a pair made for myself with Crizal coating. My backyard furniture looked faded and I was having trouble with near vision. Switched to Panamic 1.6 with a Zeiss ET AR and eveything was O.K. They really goofed when they didn't put it out in CR-39 first. I'm using Hoya Wides and Zeiss Tops now. Better than the Panamic or Comfort. Hoya Wides good for low RXs, low settings, and high minus jobs, especially in 1.71 Index. Zeiss best for plus jobs, especially high plus, because of adjusted seg inset. Also, I don't think you can set those Panamics 18H without bumping the add. I was used to high index, but that may be another part of problem. Taking somebody out of a CR-39 with an ideal Abbe value and putting them in a Poly with a dismal Abbe value, or a 1.6 with a fair to middlin' Abbe value is a lousy idea. When Essilor finally does come out with the Panamic in CR-39, the price better be right, or I'm sticking with Hoya Wide and Zeiss Top. My "Essilor" lab has lost almost all my progressive business.
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Isn't it amazing...... everyone seems to have different experiences, as far as we're concerned, the Panamic is a great lens, the results from patients who had Comfort previously is just amazing, and 2 days ago I received a pair for myself, which I've put into a very small REM frame, 44-18 with a height of 18mm.
No, I didn't bump the add, it's the identical Rx to my Zeiss Gradal Tops and I have to say the first hour was very strange, but the following morning all was OK.
During the day, I returned to the TOP, and couldn't find the near vision, much too low all of a sudden!!!!!!!!
I have to say that we have done a fair proportion of Panamics in Poly, and the first impressions are strange, but so far, out of about 25 or so pairs, not one rejection, it's the same with Zeiss Polys and Orma Polys.
All best, Clive
Only one Panamic non adapt so far.He is a happy Comfort wearer into poly for the first time.I originally thought that he was reacting to the poly but checked the curves of each.They were different.I found out yesterday from the lab, that the recomended base curve on the poly Panamic is different than on the comfort CR 39, and what this person was experiencing probably was base curve shock.He definitly could tell the difference.This is an ongoing case because we are remaking the Rx in a Comfort poly, matching original base curves.If he adapts to these (no reason he shouldn't-he's already wearing them)Then it is definitly a base curve problem and not with polycarbonate material.I'll let you know what happens!
Hey, I went to a Seminar in Lubbock Texas last nite, put on by Essilor and asked about the number of non-adapts with the poly Panamic. They are aware of this, but their answer was to put the crizal coating on it and that would sovle the problem. I can't really justify puttting an A/R coating on a Roust-a-Bout oil driller. Wouldn't last two days under their conditions. Was told however, totally off the record that the Panamic in CR-39 would be out next month.
They had an hour long program totally on the Panamic and it's benefits and gave a 1 hour CEC for it. I was under the impression that the ABO did not certify CEC's for comercials. I hope this doesn't mean that from know on we will sit in class rooms and listen to info mercials on every companies products and nothing about what we need to know. Oh well, times are a changin. Jim Seebach
JIM:Originally posted by Jim Seebach:
Hey, I went to a Seminar in Lubbock Texas last nite, put on by Essilor and asked about the number of non-adapts with the poly Panamic. They are aware of this, but their answer was to put the crizal coating on it and that would sovle the problem. I can't really justify puttting an A/R coating on a Roust-a-Bout oil driller. Wouldn't last two days under their conditions. Was told however, totally off the record that the Panamic in CR-39 would be out next month.
They had an hour long program totally on the Panamic and it's benefits and gave a 1 hour CEC for it. I was under the impression that the ABO did not certify CEC's for comercials. I hope this doesn't mean that from know on we will sit in class rooms and listen to info mercials on every companies products and nothing about what we need to know. Oh well, times are a changin. Jim Seebach
Ain't you west of the Pecos? Ain't no
LAW out there.
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Hey bob, Things have changed a little since our famous Judge Roy Beene passed on. They even cut his hangin tree down. Mostly laws limiting Opticians scope of practice are what they watch for. JimOriginally posted by Bob Rihl:
JIM:
Ain't you west of the Pecos? Ain't no
LAW out there.
So far so good on the Panamics. I received my pair on the 12th, and at first had some distortion in the near at first, but all was well after about 2 hours.
The customers love it because of the lower peripheral distortion.
Bob V.
Interesting that they claim A/R will fix the non-adapt problem with the poly. There is definitely a reflection problem with poly as it compares to CR39 and the suggestion does make sense.Originally posted by Jim Seebach:
Hey, I went to a Seminar in Lubbock Texas last nite, put on by Essilor and asked about the number of non-adapts with the poly Panamic. They are aware of this, but their answer was to put the crizal coating on it and that would sovle the problem.
I guess that we'll just have to wait until the CR becomes available. Only then will we know for sure whether the problem is poly or a combination of poly and the new design. Yes, the Panamic is softer, like many other cutting edge progressives that have come out the past two years. Softer means the overall amount of cylinder is less (in diopters), but it also means that astigmatic error present is (generally) spread out over the entire lens surface. This often includes very small amounts in the central viewing zones like distance, mid-range and near.
As for the question about ABO credits on an infomercial, the ABO does cut manufacturers some slack (for a limited time) when they convince the ABO that their new product brings a totally new technology to the market. I attended a SolaMAX seminar recently and it was the same thing. I'm pretty sure that the window of time that such a class will be approved for CE is limited. If you really have a concern, I'm sure the ABO would appreciate the feedback. They are very responsive when you write them letters expressing such views.
[This message has been edited by Sus (edited 06-16-2000).]
Jim, Surprised by the problems people are having with Panamics; we've fit about 200, had a couple problems, which were resolved by an rx change from the rxing dr. the panamic transitions is a better transitions; we don't fit them without the crizal ar. Attended a pesbyopia seminar in portugal last week, and some of the seminars dealt with the development of the Panamic. was most impressed by the presentation of the bio-medical engineers with the equipment and testing procedures used to deal with the elimination of equilibrium problems; having now worn the Panamic for 4 months, it really feels like a single vision lenses, and our pts love it. close attention needs to be paid to base curves though, as they are generally much flatter design, and some pts aren't going to be comfortable going from cr-39 to poly and flattening the base curves, especially if they have very little rx change. the most comfortable change is to the ormex transitions. I was told that the cr-39 panamic would be available in july "in Crizal only" and without Crizal maybe in October. We're fine the way things are. Al.
Thank you all for you replys. And, yes Steve, Ultravue was AO........
Isn't that the one, we needed the groleman fitting device for?Originally posted by EyeManFla:
Thank you all for you replys. And, yes Steve, Ultravue was AO........
Diane
YUP...want to buy one...I'll sell you one real cheap.....LOL
And they told me I was the only one that had non adapts with these things.
I am personally 5 tries...5 failures in trying to switch happy comfort patients to panamic. My last patient loves them, the first 5 hated them. I don't use them after that, your reputation is on the line.
Thanks,Doc. Don't get me wrong, I happen to think that the Panamic is a great lens,but to put someone in Poly when it is not necessary....well, you get the picture and that is why it is available in CR-39.
Varilux Panamic was released uncoated in CR-39 on September 5, 2000. Just an FYI
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