patternless edger

**Randy** · 05-15-2001, 02:27 PM

I need some quick help. We are in rapid need of a new patternless edger. I have been considering the Santinelli 9000. Does anyone have experience with this unit. Or maybe suggestions for other equipment. We currently cut about 15 jobs a day in the office. The unit must be user friendly as other staff members will probably us it when I'm not in the office. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

**Steve Machol** · 05-15-2001, 03:18 PM

Randy,

Use the search feaure and search on the words 'patternless' and/or 'Santinelli'. We've had several indepth discussions on this topic in the past. You'll probably find some helpful info in these messages.

**PAkev** · 05-15-2001, 09:43 PM

Randy,

I purchased a patternless edger about 1 yr ago. I researched all manufacturers and found that the AIT Maxima to meet our needs the best. We are a little shy of real estate in our lab and we needed a machine that could provide the several functions of ancillary equipment usually found in a finishing lab.

Kevin

**Texas Ranger** · 05-16-2001, 10:33 AM

Randy, Unless you cut a lot of glass, do yourself a favor and check out National Optronic's 6E and tracer. edges everything but glass with incredible accuracy, edge polishes, safety bevels and grooves rimless in same cycle. alll residue is sucked into a shop-vac system for easy disposal. www.nationaloptronics.com

**Pete Hanlin** · 05-19-2001, 02:57 PM

Al,
Another OptiBoard member reported your last post as being an advertisement. Actually, I think your post borders on the acceptable- that is, as long as you repost and reveal any connection you might have to National Optronics (if indeed, you have any such connection).

I think offering contact info to a company is acceptible, but the glowing report of the machine's capability should be accompianied by some info of where you are coming from (perhaps you are a lab tech who has been favorably impressed with the edger, in that case great).

Thanks,
Pete

**bbla** · 05-20-2001, 12:41 AM

I agree with Al and I am a lab rat that runs 4 of the 6E and a few Horision III's

Thanks Bill

**Len Ferrari** · 05-21-2001, 08:28 AM

Don't know if Al has read your post yet, Pete, but I am reasonably sure that Al has no affiliation with Optronics. I have worked for them for the last 3.5 yrs, and know that the only employee we have in TX is not named Al.:bbg:

**Texas Ranger** · 05-21-2001, 10:03 AM

Steve, I have absolutely zero affiliation with National Optronics other than as a very satisfied client! I have done edging all the way back to ceramic bowl edgers of the 60's, patterned AIT's and Briots, to patternless Briot scanform, a Horizon III (which I just sold) and finally the 6E. I am quite sure that the Santinelli machines are great! I just don't cut glass anymore, so prefer the "dry-cut" unit for easy clean-up and waste management. We were Asked our opinion, sorry if it came out like advertising. it was simply a sincere appreciation for a great product. Al.

**EyeManFla** · 05-21-2001, 01:37 PM

Yup. The 6E is the best. I have a Vista and a 6E hooked into my lab computer....only need one person to do the lab...and, of course, it's usually me.:hammer:

**Pete Hanlin** · 05-22-2001, 10:26 AM

Thanks for reposting, Al. I have used the Horizon III as well (I even rigged up a little chamber for the vacuum underneath the table... I put insulation around the walls and doors, and you could barely hear the thing run). I was always impressed with it (you could easily tell when the blades got dull though, cause it would just chop the lens in half).

Pete

**RANMAN** · 05-22-2001, 05:28 PM

Thanks Al for your input. I currently am using a horizon III. I didn't give too much thought to the cleanup aspect of the santinelli. I would agree that I like the dry cut systems better. I will heed your suggestion and check into the 6E as well.

:cheers:

Randy

**LENNY** · 07-07-2001, 10:28 AM

How much will the new paternless Optronic edger run me?
Anybody leasing it?

**Homer** · 07-07-2001, 10:46 AM

There are many good units on the market. In the first issue of Visioncareproducts News(available on line), there is an article that talks about the systems and mentions various units.

While it seems that there is an overwhelming response from those who like the dry edgers, they do prevent you from doing glass.

Personally, I like all-material edgers. I have the Gerber-Coburn Gamma system and would look long and hard at the Kappa system if I needed to replace.

If space is a issue, the Briot unit has everything in one unit: tracer, layout/blocker & edger. Some others require two or three units (The Gamma is a two unit system, for instance)

Topcon is comming out with the new Ultima Plus - sounds like a great unit - it is a three unit system.

Happy hunting. There is great stuff out there. All can be leases.
Not much advantage in buying these days since technology is changing so rapidly - that's just an opinion.

**optyx** · 07-07-2001, 06:57 PM

Randy, I have used the Santinelli 7070SX, the Gerber-Coburn Gamma and the Kappa. All are good units with (I think) the G-C's having the advantage. I will soon be in the market for a new edger and, so far, I tend toward the Maxima or the 6-E.

If you go for the dry-cut watch the vac bag. If it overfills you can have quite a clean-up job on your hands

**Texas Ranger** · 07-07-2001, 10:22 PM

So far as buying vs. leasing...when I bought my Horizon III 5 yrs ago, I got a back end loan from my bank, without any extra monthly cash outlay; I got a little better price deal for paying for the unit net 30. leases are hard to get out of until the lease in run out, so if you wan to upgrade technology before then, you're stuck. when I bought the 6E, I did the same back end loan with my bank and got a better price for net 30, then sold the horizon III. Pete, we change the cutter blade at 400 cuts, and empty the vacuum back at 800, very simple, routine maint. the unit shows you the count continuously. Al.

**Jeff Trail** · 07-08-2001, 01:39 PM

I still think you need to go with the basics before you decide, what materials and how much room and if you want water or dry cut. The location of the company and there policies on getting things fixed and how they go about it. I know that being wholesale I can NOT have my edgers down for a wekk or two if something went wrong and I had to get it fixed so Briot (where I got my edgers from) gives me a replacement while mine was getting shipped to them.. I was without for only one day..not bad service. Be sure to ask all the questions about what happens IF something goes wrong.
I have seen everyone of the systems run that have been mentioned and a few that has not. I also have had glowing reports as well as "arrg what junk" about everyone of them as well.. I think alot depends on the luck of the draw on your system being perfect.
I also do a lot of wheeling and dealing for my accounts and you might be surprised by the number of "used" units on the market. I know I just hooked an OD up with a Briot Accura that was only 9 monthes old for $23,000. Not bad when you price a new one..
I also tend to try to stay away from enclosed edgers, especially if you do the tough cuts and complicated stuff.. not matter which system you get it is never perfect all the time and you will have to do some adjustments, usually starts about three or four monthes after you get it if you are only cutting 15 or 20 jobs a day...
Me personally? .. I like the Briot 6000.. it's open and you have access to the lens and wheels and easy to make any adjustments while edging the hard stuff (lenticualrs, dive masks, high wrap lens etc. etc.) It's very easy to run and pretty dependable... I have over 85,000 cuts on mine and I replaced one bearing on the wheel shaft and thats about it (other than a new roughing wheel) ..not to bad....
I think you might want to try using a little graph to get rid of the ones that do not match (materials etc. etc.) then once you get it down to say 2 or three machines then contact the companies and have them come in set up and let you use the edgers for a couple of weeks (the majority of companies will do this) ..just don't take the first one in, I know if you never used a patternless system they tend to spoil you pretty quickly, so atleast be patient enough to give them all a try and than decide.. I would give the Otpronics the Briot and probably my third choice would be the Gamma..nothing personal but I do not like the Santinelli (I'm not telling why since they are not here to defend themself, just my personal opinion)

Maybe some of this information helps, just thought I would add from a wholesalers point of view...

Jeff "No Pete I do NOT work for any equipment companies" Trail

**Homer** · 07-08-2001, 07:07 PM

Good post! Great information. Many good units on the market, The dry cuts are not in my top 3. A major factor not mentioned is customer service from the supplier.

**B.Backwards** · 07-19-2001, 11:05 PM

Randi!

I have the Brio Accura, Have had it about a year. I am very satisfied with it. If you haven't purchased a new system come over and see it some day, seeing how we are neighbors. Briot will do glass,plastic,and poly and polish if you wish.

**EyeManFla** · 07-21-2001, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by LENNY
How much will the new paternless Optronic edger run me?
Anybody leasing it?

We do. There are a number of leasing companies that will work with you. N.O., Coburn or Briot....either of these companies can hook you up.

As far as getting a 'wet' edger as opposed to a 'dry' one..........I do about One glass job a MONTH....I run about 20 POLY jobs a DAY..........I had a Briot last year....couldn't get rid of it fast enough!

**Contento** · 10-21-2004, 11:06 PM

take my Novamatic Patternless edger system for 5G....It works great, has three years of use, I just bought a big boy for 75 jobs per day. This thing is a work horse.
I am Dr AJ Contento and my lab manager is Ethan Brown, Optician. Call him at 718-792-2020 and he will tell you why we did not go with Santinelli. Service is bad and the unit is not sold by the company that makes it....plus it's big bucks.

Good Luck...A.J.

**Contento** · 10-21-2004, 11:10 PM

Hey, How about my patternless edger system for 5G. It works well but we just bought a new big boy Briot to do 75 jobs per day.
Call at 718-792-2020 Ethan is the optician and I will be at 718-562-2020 Dr A J Contento
Novamatic patternless edger, blocker, tracer,and finishing stone. Good Luck A.J.

**sjthielen** · 10-22-2004, 12:01 PM

I just purchased a santinelli 9000. Great machine!!!. I also had a santinelli 7070 before. As for clean up, I'm direct plumbed into our water system, so there is no clean up.

**Texas Ranger** · 10-22-2004, 01:20 PM

So , that's OK with the "water system" folks??

**sjthielen** · 10-22-2004, 04:24 PM

I called the EPA and my city and they told me that amount of plastic that i was flushing was of no consiquence. Ask your santinelli rep. they make the pump you need for direct plumbing, you just need a plumber to hook it up.

**harry888** · 10-22-2004, 07:32 PM

There are many excellent edgers on the market, but what you need to consider is service after the sale.

How far away are the Briot, Horizon, AIT, Santinelli repairmen? How much do they charge? Do they charge from when they leave the office, so you pay for travel time?

Company/brand satisfaction really depends on your geographic area.

Harry