The French Pt. 2

[Cindy Hamlin]

I got this e-mail this evening.


David Letterman: "France wants more evidence [of Iraqi violations]. The last
time France wanted more evidence, it rolled right through France with a German
flag."

Dennis Miller: "The only way the French are going in is if we tell them we
found
truffles in Iraq."

Jay Leno: "I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get
Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of
France!"

Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo.: "Do you know how many Frenchmen it takes to defend
Paris?
It's not known, it's never been tried."

Blunt again: "Somebody was telling me about the French Army rifle that was
being
advertised on eBay the other day -- the description was: 'Never shot. Dropped
once.'"

Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure."
Rush Limbaugh: "As far as France is concerned, you're right."

"Do you know it only took Germany three days to conquer France in World War II?
And that's because it was raining,"

Jed Babbin: "Going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without
your accordion."

What do you expect from a culture and a nation that exerted more of its
national
will fighting against Disney World and Big Mac's than the Nazis?

An old saying:
Raise your right hand if you like the French....
Raise both hands if you are French.

Q: Why are there so many tree-lined boulevards in France?
A: Germans like to march in the shade

"You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he hates
America, he loves mistresses and wears a beret. Wait, Saddam is French,
people."
--Conan O'Brien

Q: What did the mayor of Paris say to the German Army as they entered the city
in WWII?
A: "Table for 100,000 m'sieur?"

We still need the French in our war against Iraq. Somebody has to teach the
Iraqis how to surrender.

Q: What do you call a nuclear explosion in Paris?
A: Evidence the inspections are working.

[EyeManFla]

Actually, I'm not as upset with French...I really don't expect that much from them....but the damn Brits are really starting to tick me off.
What a bunch of cowards! YES, COWARDS! Frankly, if I hear one more Brit get on TV and whine about how the world is a much more dangerous place BECAUSE of the UNITED STATES, I'll personally start a fund raising program for Gerry Adams and his boys.
Given what you owe us...time for you Brits to step up to the plate!

[Bev Heishman]

With draw all American dollars and see the response for all these countries. I am not in agreement in GW's plan. But I am mindful that my own family members are on there way to certain stategic areas, they chose to defend America and have made many years income and retirement pay for this reason. My husband and I argue nightly as to the best way.

Lets get on with what ever and see where the chips lay!

[John R]

EyeManFla said:
but the damn Brits are really starting to tick me off.
What a bunch of cowards!
Given what you owe us...time for you Brits to step up to the plate!

Given your countries record in lateness when asked to attend fights.................:angry:
Given that YOUR lot bottled it last time we dont give a toss now....
Frankly if your country wants to invade iraq then go ahead as over here public opinion is so far againts it now Mr Blair will be putting his head on the block....Even school kids are walking out of school in protest now...To be honest if the war goes on and we're there we are in more danger of getting killed by YOUR countries forces than any other...FACT....
I'm am in no way a aniti-war monger but this time this is one fight that does not warrent the trouble.....
I'll not comment on the Irish thing as its so low as to be stupid....

[sarahr]

EyeManFla said:
Frankly, if I hear one more Brit get on TV and whine about how the world is a much more dangerous place BECAUSE of the UNITED STATES, I'll personally start a fund raising program for Gerry Adams and his boys.
Given what you owe us...time for you Brits to step up to the plate!

Steve,
I've got to say I find this post very offensive. Heated discussion is fine, but there is a point you just don't cross. It has been crossed here. I am also very surprised that these comments have been allowed to stay, especially as Optiboard is an international community.

Sarah

[Steve Machol]

Sarah, personally I agree that EyeManFla's post is offensive and wrong-headed. However I do not censor posts simply because I disagree with them.

I'd be interested in knowing what other OptiBoarders think.

[hcjilson]

Eyeman,
Who do you think is standing side by side with us in front of the world? The official position of the British Government has shown considerable courage in view of the lack of support by many of its citizens.

I believe your choice of words was unfortunate and said in the heat of the moment, which is not too surprising because its going on in Bev's house, and its going on in my house , and I dare say its going on in a lot of houses. It is a very bad situation because no one REALLY knows whats going to come of this.

SarahR,

One of the things America stands for is free speech. Eyeman is entitled to his opinion regardless of the lack of grace and tact with which it was stated. You just can't go around and pull posts because you don't like them.
That sort of thing is done in Iraq....but not here!

Sarah, I don't know what side of this Iraq situation you are on.(John told me how he feels and I understand it although do not agree with it). I think perhaps you fail to recognize how badly this country has been hurt.

Before 9/11, who would have called two comercial airliners weapons of mass destruction?The people of this country have elected someone to preserve, protect, and defend this country and its constitution.He is between a rock and a hard place. If he does nothing in the face of weapons of mass destruction, he is derilict in his obligation.
He has made his decision on behalf of people like me....and Eyeman. This country cannot afford to take a hit from a third rate dictator who just might take delight in seeing what some chemicals might do at something like a super bowl game...or Disneyworld on a school vacation week.Our open and free way of life has been the envy of much of the world.Thats all out the window now. We will do whatever it takes to regain our security. All we are REALLY
doing, is to demand that Iraq get rid of the dirty weapons we KNOW he has. You may not agree with me.....I know my wife does not so you won't be the only one. These are indeed TERRIBLE times.

RE: Eyeman's post, I found it offensive.I have been known to say things I really didn't mean in the heat of an argument (as recently as last night) but there was no argument here which is what made the post seem so out of place.Thats one of the bad things about the current situation. We've really never gotten over 911 and we're carrying around too much anger.In my opinion an apology is in order, but thats up to the author.

[John R]

Steve Machol said:
I'd be interested in knowing what other OptiBoarders think.

Think i made myself plain...
Water of the ol duks back....
Sarah..
We stand United...
We are getting our own back dont worry...

[chip anderson]

Disney Euro has stopped the fireworks show, every time they did it, three French armored divisions surrendered.


For sale, French army rifles, never used, dropped once.


Chip:bbg:

[sarahr]

hcjilson said:

SarahR,

I think perhaps you fail to recognize how badly this country has been hurt.

I do appreciate your sensitive comments. However, to the above quote I could say the same to EyeManFla!

In hindsight you are right about not pulling the post, I reacted in the heat of reading it, but I AM offended.

My stand on Iraq - I personally think that war will affect innocents in the main and there must be a better way. I don't profess to have the foggiest idea what that way may be. There are people much better qualified to make these decisions, but when these people start arguing with each other...

[hcjilson]

Sarah,
You were right to be offended-bad manners are offensive. Now, can we go back to a little light humor concerning the French?

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me."
--- General George S. Patton

[chm2023]

I don't think a lot of people who object to this war are necessarily simply anti-war, just question the wisdom of this one in particular. Still don't see how this fights against terrorism. We keep talking about getting rid of weapons of mass destruction--seems to me the 9/11 creeps used box cutters. Also think this business of how the US saved the world is a little over-stated and serves no positive purpose. My reading of history is that Russia in large part defeated Hitler and the Brits held him at bay; we came in after and then because of Pearl Harbor. I think the Europeans would be more likely to show appreciation for our no doubt critical contribution if we weren't so quick to trumpet it. My father was one of those Normandy guys and finds this kind of braggadoccia (sp?) in very poor taste. And, now I am really asking for it, remember the French took a huge hit in WWI. Opinions, you know what they say.....

[John R]

remember the French took a huge hit in WWI

You are so close there and brought up this point....
The French are one of the few countries that have been invaded in recent history. They know very well how a dysfunctional population can really hurt any invading force. Remember they had their resistance who caused the germans no end of trouble...Now with the iraq's you also have to remember that religion is going to play a big part in any uprisings against invading forces. While the vast majority of iraq's do not like Sadam they are muslims and proberly hold the westen world at the same level of distaste.
Lets face it in this fracas who is going to get hurt the most....Yep the iraq population they will suffer while Sadam and his henchmen carry on in the life style they know. At the end of the day its up to the iraq's to oust Sadam and put someone voted for in free and fair ballots, not us by the use of force.....

[hcjilson]

John is correct to remind us that this whole thing is about God isn't it? Muslim, Jew, Christian, Hindii.....whatever.

With all due respect to my friend from the UK who said

" At the end of the day its up to the iraq's to oust Sadam and put someone voted for in free and fair ballots, not us by the use of force....."

If Saddam is in power ONLY because he uses force ( most would not argue with that fact)

Why then should you not use force to remove him?

The people of Iraq lack the means to oust him-Heck its going to take the means of our combined countries to do it. Part of the cost of a free society are those innocents caught up in its defense.That is still no reason to let this dictator continue on his present course.

Remember this,
ALL Saddam has to do is rid himself of the weapons of mass destruction...and its OVER! Saddam stays in power, the Iraqi's stay subjugated, the middle east remains a hotbed but without the worry of a gas or chemical attack and we go home. The solution to this problem as obvious as it is simple.

[Refractingoptician.com]

''

[Cindy Hamlin]

hcjilson said:
Remember this,
ALL Saddam has to do is rid himself of the weapons of mass destruction...and its OVER! Saddam stays in power, the Iraqi's stay subjugated, the middle east remains a hotbed but without the worry of a gas or chemical attack and we go home. The solution to this problem as obvious as it is simple.

Well said, Harry. It is simple. I really have a problem with the world calling the US warmongers! Saddam has spit in the face of the world repeateldy, slaughtered hundreds and thousands of his own countrymen testing his biological weapons. He has billions of dollars of personal wealth he has acquired and his countrymen starve!

He made this fight and I for one hope they one day carry out his head on a stick! He has taunted the US and other countries for too long and I hope they "rip him up"!

[Refractingoptician.com]

."

[hcjilson]

Gary,

Now THAT was well said! :D

hj

[chm2023]

After OD-ing on CNN took to my bookshelves and unearthed something that I wish the administration and Saddam would take a look at--a book "The March of Folly" by Barbara Tuchman, she of "The Guns of August" . It talks about turning points in history in which nations have elected to act in a self destructive manner despite the presence of viable alternatives (e.g. the Trojans opening the gates, George 3's deliberate provoking of the American colonies, Renaissance popes encouraging corruption gives Luther his opportunity, US in Vietnam) Very evocative of today's situation.

I am still having a problem getting my head around the notion that Bush and others believe that democracy will bloom in Iraq (forcing democracy onto people, no inconguence there!) and that when free elections are held, pro-western leaders will be elected. Does history not show that the number one prerequisite of a stable government is the legitimacy of that government in the eyes of the governed?

This whole thing is very discouraging, poll in the NYTimes today: over half of polled Americans think Saddam is DIRECTLY responsible for 9/11. God have mercy.

[dfisher]

Iraq already has a democratic system in place and Saddam was unamimously re-elected last year.

However, the name and address of the voter was required on each ballot to make the execution of anyone who voted against him easier on the executioners.

[hcjilson]

If memory serves there was only one candidate!:D Where is a Harold Stassen type when you need one?
hj

[Pete Hanlin]

Having been called an "Ugly American" some time ago by suggesting that the US forego the U.N. and go it alone...

The rest of the world's citizens have as much right to their viewpoints as Americans (how big of me to realize that, huh?)... My previous point was that- as long as America has the military might to project its will around the world- opinions differing from our own are irrelevent.

I keep getting the feeling that this fact has been missed by everyone involved. Like it or not, America is the supreme military power in the world right now (simple statement of fact). With that leadership comes responsibility. Responsibility to do as we see fit- and the responsibility to live with the consequences of our own decisions.

What the Administration has to do is decide whether we're going in or not. If we go in and the world condemns us, that is the price of leadership. Personally, I wish we would stop crying about the lack of global support and just get the whole mess over with- and then reap the consequences. Hopefully, we'll go in, find and destroy weapons of mass destruction, and the rest of the world will have to admit we were right.

However, it is possible that we'll go in, kill a lot of civilians in the unsuccessful process of trying to root out Saddam and end up in a tangled mess that accomplishes nothing... that's the risk you take as a leader. Either way, its time to stop searching about in search of others to share the blame with us if we're wrong (which is always possible).

Perhaps the reason Americans are getting so peeved at other countries is because we don't really believe ourselves in the rightness of this action. In that case, I suggest some introspection- not castigation of others who also doubt.

Perhaps we should be a bit more like the UK was when Argentina invaded the Falklands. They didn't sit around and whinge for global support- they steamed up the fleet, went down and kicked around an inferior opponent, and took what they believed to be theirs back. I'm just suggesting its our turn to do the same (not that Iraq is ours to begin with or anything).

[Cindy Hamlin]

Just got this cartoon in an e-mail:

[John R]

Pete Hanlin said:
Perhaps we should be a bit more like the UK was when Argentina invaded the Falklands.

Big diffrence Pete...The Falklands IS ours where as Iraq does not belong to America....
But you are right if Mr Bush has to go looking for support then he's not so sure he's right.
I think he's trying to prove he's his fathers son, rather than be himself....

[Refractingoptician.com]

;;