Political Posts and Civility - Can they co-exist?

[HarryChiling]

Civility is killing this forum?!? That's a first.

This is exactly why no matter what I do I can't win. Some people like the political rants. They think it's some sort of game. Based on the comments I've received from existing members and ones that have left, most people don't and are tired of them.

I personally don't tire of them because I have always avoided them but I know what you're saying and I think it would be more accurate to say people are tired of political topics spilling over into other threads.

I don't really thing a solution exists, the only reason I am still posting on rare occasion is the two newest moderators have my utmost trust and have taken time to get to know me before they pass judgment on me. I think that kind of care is the other side of being a human being that is not being discussed on this thread.

BTW in the past I have tried to point to examples of the degenerative type posts that are IMO killing threads and consequently this forum. It starts with someone not liking a stated opinion. Rather than stating dislike and rebutting which is the formula for discussion, a name is called and all of a sudden the thread is closed.

I find that with certain posters I can count on a fact based discussion, with others its mostly opinion based posts, and yet with others its just disinformation. At a certain point I limited myself to posting in just the ophthalmic optics forum and would verify my answers from good old fashion text books, and yet still the responses seemed to be negative with rebuttals strictly based on experience. Sometimes those experiences had no correlation to fact.

That last paragraph brings to mind a thought, how about a separate section similar to question answer sites where users can upvote or down vote the popularity of bthe answer?

Just spit balling ideas, Steve this post is as Now I See would call grainy.

[Steve Machol]

That last paragraph brings to mind a thought, how about a separate section similar to question answer sites where users can upvote or down vote the popularity of bthe answer?

That's an interesting idea Harry but it would involve finding and using an add-on which I generally try to avoid because of the complexities in security and maintaining that add-on through upgrades.

Right now I think the two most probable options are:

1. No longer allow political posts.

or

2. Create a new forum for these posts.

The latter option doesn't really solve anything except to move those posts into a different forum. All the same problems exist and I think it would just encourage even more anger and incivility. One way to reduce that would be to limit posts in that forum to a specific group. People in that group would be able to see and post in that forum, while everyone else wouldn't even know of it's existence. Of course, then you get into the whole issue of who could be in that group. The most egalitarian way would be to make it a group that anyone can join if they so desire. Then people that don't want to see those kinds of discussions won't have to.

Of course this would still leave me to deal with all the complaints. However unless they involve direct personal insults or are racist, sexist or violate any other forum rules, I would be much less likely to even bother.

Unlike my accusers have claimed, I have absolutely no desire to apply a 'heavy-hand' and my record proves that. My first inclination is to always try and find a way to make it so people can get along, however fruitless that may be. There are to many people that just want to rant at other people and honestly I don't even want to deal with this any more that I absolutely have to.

[Steve Machol]

Here's another one that illustrates the problem with political discourse in this country:

Steve, you are a condescending jerk. I hope you know that.

Case in point: you think this is a political crusade. Far from it. We simply have to adjust, and I wanted to share it on your forum, but you have to act like you're superior and that everyone else is just one big bother to you.

I congratulate you on Optiboard, but you should really consider the contributors a little more. It does work both ways, you know.

Do you know why I did to get insulted like that? I simply moved one thread which had clearly turned political from one forum to another. That was it. Here is what I posted at the time:

Let's put this into perspective.

1. I had not even read this thread until I received two complaints about it turning political. No one asked for it to be closed or removed.

2. After looking at the thread I thought they had a valid point, i.e., "Obama Glasses" and other similar comments.

3. I moved this thread from the General Optics forum to Just Conversation AND I left a redirect in the original forum so that people could still find it easily.

4. I never censored anyone.

Apparently this was too much for a couple of people who then proceeded to:

a. Threaten not to post in this thread again (a pledge he quickly broke), and when I called him on this weird reaction he proceeded to call me a 'condescending jerk'.

b. Another individual compared my actions to an assault of 'free speech' although no one was censored, edited, banned or otherwise inconvenienced in any way.

All just for moving a thread from one forum to another. Geez - a bit of overreaction you think?

It is important to note that unlike the complainers, I do not use OptiBoard to further any political agenda - nor do I ever intend to.

Again I'm not picking on drk, nor in all fairness have I ever censored him. I'm only showing this to point out that even the most benign actions I take are simply unacceptable to some people. And yes, I recognize that sometimes people react in ways that they would not ordinarily do, including me.

[Steve Machol]

And another:

Bwaaaahahahahahahahahahaha....

If it seems like those websites seem to have a liberal bias, perhaps its because the American Taliban sorry the Tea Party wackos are far better at spewing outright lies than the Democrats are.

When you have nutcases like failed-presidential-wannabe Michele Bachmann, failed-vice-presidential-mistake Sara Palin, and not-born-in-America presidential wannabe Ted Cruz burning up the airways with their peculiar brand of nonsense, it's to be expected that low-education people are going to believe what they say, even if it isn't true.

The problem isn't that those websites are "liberally biased", it's that they have become a necessity to separate the truth from the lies spewed by BOTH sides, but far more on the right than the left.

This kind of thing is unacceptable. There are better places to spew partisan rants. This is NOT one of them. I will NOT tolerate any more name-calling like this. Do you understand that?

Then I had to go on for several more posts defending myself. I want to be done with this. I frankly don't care to know what anyone else's politics are. I'd rather treat people as, well....people, instead of symbols.

[MikeAurelius]

To be fair, I did not know "nutcases" would be on your list of things not to say, especially when describing politicians.

The 'A T' phrase, yes, absolutely, as I said earlier. And I self-censored when I wanted to use Christian "T", which perhaps, would be more apt. But I digress.

And just out of curiosity, why is "nutcases", when used to describe certain politicians, not acceptable? That confused me more than anything else.

[rinselberg]

Right now I think the two most probable options are:

1. No longer allow political posts.

or

2. Create a new forum for these posts.

The latter option doesn't really solve anything except to move those posts into a different forum. All the same problems exist and I think it would just encourage even more anger and incivility. One way to reduce that would be to limit posts in that forum to a specific group. People in that group would be able to see and post in that forum, while everyone else wouldn't even know of it's existence. Of course, then you get into the whole issue of who could be in that group. The most egalitarian way would be to make it a group that anyone can join if they so desire. Then people that don't want to see those kinds of discussions won't have to.

Of course this would still leave me to deal with all the complaints. However unless they involve direct personal insults or are racist, sexist or violate any other forum rules, I would be much less likely to even bother.

Next step here could be setting up an OptiBoard POLL for members to vote between these options.

[Karlen McLean]

Steve. you have a good head on your shoulders. And Optiboard is your baby. I think most of us here trust you and your judgement. If the post/replies degrade and don't follow Optiboards laws and rules, delete and disbar them. You are on top of doing that with non-optical posters who try slipping in a post. I admire your administation of this site and your endless energy in keeping it relevant. Politics and bad manners have no place here and should be gone, period.

[drk]

Geez, are you also going to hold your breath until you turn blue in the face?

Frankly I have no idea what your point is with this thread. Feel free to either clarify or ignore. Either way I'll be able to get on with my life.

Yeah, Steve, but you got personal really quick. I didn't even heretofore address you. You do condescend. That's your personality from what I've been able to discern.

[drk]

Why not simply an "enter at your own risk" forum, for example, Just Conversation, and warn people the moderation will be extremely minimal. Then make Fezz do it, to be sure the job doesn't get done. You won't have to cope with it. <new paragraph> I was a bit perturbed with what I felt was a global interest subject posted on the "big stage" being reclassified. In retrospect, if there were multiple outcries over the subject nature, not just ol' Mikey, I understand. Any forum should suffice. I was wrong. <new paragraph> But in a bigger sense, Steve, why do you care if people gripe? We live in an aggrieved society, and it's impossible to please everyone. Your forum is fine, from my perspective. People need a little more than paper-thin skin. Don't worry so much. <new paragraph>

[MikeAurelius]

Yeah, it's all my fault *eyeroll* sheesh, more drama? And you wonder why Steve is fed up. Then you point fingers at Fezz, even though he is most likely doing what he's told by Steve.

[drk]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[Steve Machol]

Thanks for once again demonstrating why I really don't want to play in this particular sandbox anymore. Well done guys!

I will post a poll based on the options in post #52. Thanks for the feedback everyone.