Lord Vader will be really upset!Originally Posted by Spexvet
Lord Vader will be really upset!
Yes, indeed it should. As should the subversive Military Commissions Act of 2006 which effectively eviscerated 7 of the 10 Bill of Rights.THE ONE event that SLAPPED me and REALLY (still to this day) has me shaken up is the passage of the (un)Patriot Act. That flies in the face of everything our Constitution stands for. It's horrifying to me. It should be horrifying to everyone.
One of my biggest disappoints was Sen. Partick Leahy who vigorously attacked this act when he was in the minority but now that he has become the chaiman of the Senate Judiciary Committee has suddenly become silinet on this issue.
Also a small 'l' libertarian I assume you also support these issues of personal freedom:
1. The rights of Gays to marry.
2. Legalization of Marijuana and overall decriminalization of victimless 'crimes'.
3. A woman's right to choose what to do with her own body.
FWIW I generally stay out of these discussions because the atmosphere is so toxic these days that it is almost impossible to have a civil discussion anymore. :(
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Thank you for being "sad" for me Judy. That's very sweet BUT you should be more concerned about the direction that he Obama and Pelosi's of the world are taking us.
What do you mean your not buying hate and fear anymore? Explain please
You know , I have a couple friends who are rabid conservitives, and some rabid liberals as well. I usually end up stuck in their conversations....
here for your amusement is my standard comment.
I like popsicles!!! and that's all I have to say about that.
Bart Smith, continuing to be awesome since 1982 so that you don't have to.
Love is a duet, each voice complementing each other and making them sound better than they would alone, each voice at times stepping back and letting the other shine. We've got a pretty good duet going Tina.
On April 28th, I'll be marrying my best friend. I can't wait!
...........
Last edited by HarryChiling; 10-12-2009 at 09:02 PM.
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How does not wanting Obama to fail Americans in anyway meaning that I want Obama to fail as president? Why would I want my government to make things harder for me and my family? Anyone that doesn't agree with Obama is naturally assumed to have something personal against him. Give me a break! That is such an ignorant statement! Also, If it wasn't for Reagan your butt would of probably been nuked into oblivion some years ago. As far as Bush SR and JR go, both had to make decisions that affected our national security. They were unpopular because they had to do things that weren't popular. They too made mistakes, of course but Obama...ehhehe..let's not even go there...he's not even making his own decisions and is clueless about war.
"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
Ayn Rand
Amazing author. Just finished reading "Atlas Shrugged", and it changes your life. You look at things in different ways than you would have before. Not light reading, as it's about 1700 pages, and well worth it.
We will all disagree on political standpoints, but we can all agree that this country is heading in a dangerous direction, and has been for over 70 years. Party lines do not matter. Our childrens' future is the first thing we should worry about. I pray everyday that we, as a nation, go back to the way things were. Back when people didn't need a contract for an agreement - a handshake was all that was needed. Back when being on public assistance was an embarrasment - not something to be worn as a badge of honor. Back when you could trust most people.
I'm fully aware that there are some members of this site that do not believe in God, or any higher power, so I'll say this as diplomatically as I can without offending. When prayer and God were taken out of schools, this country went on a downhill spiral fast. I did not become a Christian until a few years ago. As an Agnostic growing up, I knew this country was founded on Christian values, and understood that those values our Founding Fathers held so dear were the reason this country was great. We need to return to those values.
The role of federal government should be ensuring national security against foreign aggression, and mediator between the states for commerce and exchange of information (ie: police and the like). We as individuals are responsible for ourselves and our community. Our tax money should not be used for lobbyists, special interest groups, loans to foreign lands, national healthcare, etc.... The individual work ethic is constantly beat down, schools are dumbed down for the "no child left behind" act, people behave as though the government owes them something, violence is out of control in schools, and we only have ourselves to blame. Mankind cannot survive without morals and values. One must live independent of country for country to survive.
Last edited by jcasowder; 10-02-2009 at 04:00 PM.
"You can't think about it, you just gotta let your brain do the work....."
my dad
Ummm...so now I need to change my religion?
you know when we were founded we practically had an aristocracy. for example to vote you had to
be white,
own land,
be a man,
and be 20somthing ( i forget how old exactly)
this is only one example of many. I think its fair to accept that our founding fathers, though truely progressive thinkers for their time, couldn't and didn't think of everything. Many of those great founders wanted us to be an agrarian socity that completly ignored the world outside our borders. They showed us a path to follow, and it's up to us to break the trail as we go.
Anyway, just trying to say that "going back to the ideals of our forefathers" may not be all it's cracked up to be. and now i'm done being political for awhile and will return to liking popsicles.
Bart Smith, continuing to be awesome since 1982 so that you don't have to.
Love is a duet, each voice complementing each other and making them sound better than they would alone, each voice at times stepping back and letting the other shine. We've got a pretty good duet going Tina.
On April 28th, I'll be marrying my best friend. I can't wait!
I think it started 90 years ago with the adoption of the 19th Amendment.:shiner:
Edit- And for how many of the last 20 years have Republicans been in control of all branches of government? Our self correcting representative democracy sometimes swings to the right (Reagan Bush) sometimes to the left (FDR LBJ).
Right now were heading left but cheer up conservatives the pendulum will eventually go back.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 10-03-2009 at 12:13 PM. Reason: edit...
AMENDMENT XIX
Passed by Congress June 4, 1919. Ratified August 18, 1920.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
LOL! Crazy women voters! We're nuts!!!!
"You can't think about it, you just gotta let your brain do the work....."
my dad
Cherchez la femme!:D
You all are fun to read! I don't know what to hope for anymore. I was really hoping our president would have a good first year. Now we just lost the Olympics America needs a win. I know it hasn't been a year yet, but I'm starting to slip into the doubter category. He shut Gitmo -- except it is still open. He stopped Iraq -- except it is still going. He swicthed enphasis to Afghanistan -- except it is getting worse. The healthcare thing, well, the lack of quality of the debate is not his fault. (I'm not even sure what we're trying to do here; is the debate about healthcare delivery or about health insurance? The two are not the same.) And, at some point, he will have to own the economic issues which he admittedly inherited. The Olympic slam, kicked out in the first round, sorta goes against his supposed main achievement, that he has helped reshape America's overseas image. It would seem a lot of folks still hate us pretty badly.
BTW, my brother has a simple and non-controversial solution to healthcare delivery:
:
Step one: admit that we already have a publicly funded healthcare system. -- and we do! Medicare, medicaid, the VA, nurses in public schools, prison hospitals, the CDC, the WIC program, public hospitals like Cook County's John Stroger Hospital, and a host of others on the state, federal and local level.
Step Two: admit that this is a disorganized mess. WAY too many organizations involved.
Step Three: organize it a la the way the Department of Homeland Security reorganized the many many branches of Fedearal intelligence and Law Enforcement.
Step Four, expand as needed and as affordable. VA bennies to dependents, if affordable. Tweek the foodstamp program to included over the counter meds, expand nurse's offices in schools. With a reorganization many of these expansions would be instantly affirdable because we would be cutting many many layers of admin.
Anyway...like I said...You all are fun to read. even when you disagree.
it's funny you mention food stamps, they are advertising on the radio. Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program SNAP they even came up with a snappy new name. You might think ,great, get the message out to people who might not know they could get such a thing. I would think that not only is the government trying to increase the number of people dependant on it, they are using taxpayer money for radio advertising spots.
and forget about going back to a time when the moral fabric of America wasn't hanging in taters how about going back to a time when community, family and neighborhood took care of their own. But lets not forget about church because I know if I need a hand up one will be reaching for me I'll be taken care of with money that was willingly donated. There is nothing wrong with providing for your fellow man, it is wrong allowing an inept government institution to control it and force everyone to pay.
Wow that's tolerant
spex we've been over this before but since I know you can't help yourself. The Limbaughs, Hannitys et al are entertainers not spokes people for conservatives, YOU give them far too much weight when forming your opinions. Although I'm sure you believe Air America and NPR are balanced reporting :D
Oh good grief! We're not buying hate and fear anymore.
I read enough posts from Republicans AND Democrats to know there is plenty of sanctimonious rhetoric (and "selective vision/memory") on both sides of the aisle.
If you didn't support Bush, you were labeled as unpatriotic... if you don't support Obama, you're labeled as racist. I happen to be a Republican, but that doesn't mean I am incapable of seeing the good and bad on BOTH sides (Rep & Dem). Take 5 minutes to stop being defined by your party!
"Hate and fear..." puh-lease- what a bunch of emotivist, self-righteous drivel (no offense to you, Judy, but I'm tired of being labeled by liberals- and I'm tired of conservatives applying labels to liberals).
I disapprove of Obama's actions because he is spending/wasting TOO MUCH MONEY. Bush did the same dang thing. We don't have it to spend, folks- whether its to fund a war in Iraq, or a revamp of the healthcare system...
Like Judy said, Scare tactics used to waste money on a useless war and scare tactics being used to defeat healthcare reform.
You're right people should think outside party lines but this is the same tactic used to pass legislation for war, patriot act and now defeat healthcare.
Someone please change the record it's getting old.
Many people feel the same way about Marx/Engels Communist Manifesto.
You keep praying - I prefer to take action. Action like posting here:o
And people got fleeced and exploited. Think Jim and Tammy Bakker.
Cite? Who wears it like a badge of honor? Do you know the low standard of living you can afford on welfare? It's not like you can drive a Honda and own a house, you know.
That's one opinion. Another is that government allows us to accomplish, as a nation, things that we can't accomplish as individuals or seperate communities. If we go to war, wouldn't it be helpful if we fielded an army of healthy, well-educated soldiers?
And how's that working for you?[/Dr. Phil] see below.
No. Schools are in trouble because of some parents. When a student gets in trouble (academically or behavioral) the parents attack the school and teachers with threats and law suits. Parents also don't supervise kids at home, to make sure they study and do homework. They don't show that education is valued. Could it be that they don't want their kids to grow up to be Liberal elitists?
I'll be honest with you. I love the Olympics, but I don't feel that they need to be in the US, especially now, when we need to address other issues, and really can't afford to host them. It also seems fair to me that South America gets to host its first games. The important thing to me is that they'll be in a relatively close time zone.
Good start!
Are you sure they stations aren't airing the spots gratis? Get back to me on that.
If a family in need doesn't know that a program is out there, they will continue suffering.
Idaho or Yukon Gold. I hope Yukon Gold, baked, with bacon bits and sour cream! I like fabric hanging in that kind of taters! ;)
Listen - if that system worked, there would never have been a need for "welfare". The problem is that your church takes care of members of your church. How many of those people really need help? Does your church help people unlike yourselves? If you live in a predominently white, suburban setting, do you help inner-city non-white Christians? I'll go out on a limb and guess probably not. How can those inner-city minority Christians help each other, when a low percentage of them have the means to help?
Hey, I tolerated Dutch when he was in office. It's karma, the golden rule, or just desserts, what ever you want to call it. He was a man whose policies were callous to the downtrodden, he allowed nature to be raped through mining and timber practices on federal land, he bullied other nations, lost 200 marines in Lebanon, and to take our mind off that he attacked Granada, he made ketchup a vegetable, broke the law by selling weapons to Iran illegally, then funding an illegal war in Central America with the proceeds. God punished Ronald Reagan.
NPR is balanced reporting. Listen to it before you just repeat what you heard on the conservative biased media.
It's always about the money with you, Pete.
[youtube]79c5JKjAQFg[/youtube]
NPR is balanced reporting. Listen to it before you just repeat what you heard on the conservative biased media.
I do listen to it for the Jazz and endure the news reporting of how the big bad corporations are raping a pillaging the environment and the poor worker.
I know many churches aren't as organized as Roman Catholics, however in our case much of the donations go to the Dioscese which controlls most of the charitable activities so my white suburban money does go to help the inner city.
The salvation army is a christian organization and don't care what denomanation your are before they help. Where are the agnostic organizations helping out the down, why should there be that is what the government is for.
You know, I have worked hard for what I have and I will work harder for what I will get. I have done well, even though I am rather young.
But as much as I have put into it, I have been given a lot. And I am not that conceded to believe that everything I have I have earned 100 percent. Without being given the opportunities that I have, I do not know if I would be in the position I am now.
So to take the approach that I owe nothing to the society that has given to me. Well I just think that is egotistical...
So you owe all that you are to society (in your view the government)
The gentelman portrayed in the movie the pursuit of happiness would disagree.
Pursuit of Happyness was an exaggeration.
Cases like what happen in Pursuit of Happyness tend to rarely happen. Few and far in between. Why don't we just build an economy on winning the lottery?
In reality, most individuals move upward in the economy through their families. Their great grandparents were poor, their grandparents did a little better, their parents did pretty good, and now you are doing well. It appears that through each generation, in most cases, that is where the upward movement is obtained. Yes, there are people who come from humble beginnings and then take their giant leaps. But that does not happen in large numbers.
I can contribute much of my success to being able to receive health care, so at my age I am still alive and in good health. To being able to receive a great public education, so I can learn my tools and apply it. To having the support of my parents during my further education to live at home until I graduate (though I paid my own tuition and books). To have the moral support of my parents through my x number of years. To have the support of the government who has lowered tuition costs by supplementing Universities THUS making what I got obtainable (probably would not have been if this was not in place and I would not have been able to move up the economy).
So no, it WOULD be egotistical of me to forget that. It WOULD be egotistical of me to think that I did it on my own. And it WOULD be egotistical of me to think that I should not support others who want to make my economy and my society better.
It's always about the money with you, Pete.
Yeah, I guess it is... because, believe it or not, money is a finite resource. When a private individual over-extends themselves, its called bankruptcy. When a nation does it... Well, I'm sure there won't be any consequences- after all, its all for a "good cause."
Like Judy said, Scare tactics used to waste money on a useless war and scare tactics being used to defeat healthcare reform.
Steve's correct- what's the point in trying to hold a discourse here anymore... No one seems capable of open-minded discussion.
Fine then, folks- you're correct and anyone who doesn't agree with you is just spewing fear and hate (man, that sounds EXACTLY like the song sung by the people who supported the last administration- congratulations).
Grenada had been something of a pet project for Reagan since his visit to Barbados in 1982, where Caribbean leaders echoed Reagan's own fear: that Grenada, with its socialist government and proximity to Cuba, could become a Communist beachhead in the Caribbean. While Reagan had been focused on Grenada for some time, he was unfairly accused of using the invasion to distract attention from other world events. . . .
Although the final decision to invade Grenada was made shortly after the Beirut bombings, by the time of the massacre in October 1983, Reagan had all but officially approved the invasion of Grenada. The accusation that the bombing in Lebanon motivated the invasion was, therefore, unfounded. If anything, one reporter argued, the destruction of the Marine barracks may have caused Reagan to hesitate.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reagan/...s/pande07.html
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