How many new Toyota owners do you know, and what are their experiences, and how many new Ford owners do you know and what are their experiences? Are they all similar class cars, with similar options, being driven under the same conditions?Originally Posted by For-Life
With the economy in shreds, I didn't think anyone even drove new cars anymore!
I love these general, broad-brush statements!:cheers::cheers:
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Union Mentality...Is it the beginning of the end?
GM to shut down Oshawa car plants until mid-February
Toronto 2008-12-12 17:02
Toronto - Reaction to the failure of the auto bailout package in the U.S. has been fast and furious, Friday.
General Motors said it is shutting down 21 plants across North America for the month of January, which amounts to a quarter of a million units.
The Oshawa car plants will be idled until February 9, the CAMI plant in Ingersoll will be closed until February 16 and the Chrysler mini-van plant will be closed for the entire month of January.
Meanwhile, the White House said Friday it is considering taping into the U.S. Treasury's Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, to make some short-term loans available to help the "Detroit Three" automakers.
The $14-billion aid package for the ailing General Motors, Chrysler and Ford automakers was rejected by the U.S. Senate late Thursday.
Republican senators turned it down after the United Auto Workers refused to accept demands that they cut their wages to match the wages paid to Toyota and Honda workers in the U.S.
Federal Industry Minister Tony Clement said they are looking at providing aid to the Canadian auto sector even if the U.S. government can't get a package together.
I know several of each. Toyota and Ford are very popular vehicles, and I know many who bought them in the past 10 years and a few who have bought them over the last few years.
We are comparing trucks to trucks, SUVs to SUVs, cars to cars.
The fact is, within a five year period, Ford people have problems. Toyota owners do not.
The only one that was different was with the trucks. Ford makes better trucks than it does cars. But does not make better trucks than Toyota.
I will go as far to say that I had less problems when I owned a Hyundai Accent that people who owned a Ford Fusion or Focus.
In the end...............who cares?
When I went to buy a car several years several years ago several things really stuck with me!
I never got a salesman to even acknowledge me from the Ford dealership.
The Chevy dealer barely gave me the time of day. Oddly, I knew more about the Chevy Silverado than the saleperson did. Good thing that I got the *Top SalesPerson For 2004* to help me. Wingnut!
The Dodge dealer that I went to lost out on a two vehicle...CASH deal. The DimWit salesdink refused to believe me when I told him that I wanted his best deal on two vehicles...cash. He jerked me around for two weeks. Finally, I made a deal on two ther vehicles from another dealership. After numerous harrassing calls from the Dodge salesdink, I finally told him what I thought of him and his dealership. Funny thing, 27 minutes later, I got a call from the owner of the dealership. He wanted to know what he could do to make a deal! He pleaded with me. "What can I do?". I explained my story. I told him how I wanted the best deal...CASH...on two vehicles. I told him how his salesdink blew me off for two weeks. He pleaded for my business, he begged, cried, and pleaded for me to give them the deal. He stated that "No one ever buys two vehichles...let alone CASH, his sales dink thought that I was BS'ing them".
I told him of a story of me as a young twenty something. I told him how I went to one of the areas largest Cadillac dealers in search of a real gem of a Caddy. I told him how excited that I was when I found exactly what I was looking for on their lot! I then told him how I sat out there for almost an hour before anybody acknowledged me. Oh, there was plenty of salesdinks around. Not one of them came over to me.....not once. When one finally did, I asked him to let me come inside to speak with the manager. When the manager finally decided to honor me with his presence, I explained why I was there. I told him how excited that I was to find the exact vehicle that I was searching for! I then informed him how long that I stood in his lot, how many Jerky salesdink's ignored me, and how irritated that I was with his business. He just leaned back in his chair, fat rolls jiggling, grinning from ear to ear, and said, "Well, who is going to take YOU serious?". I then proceeded to pull from my pockets $23, 500 in crisp, dead presidents and layed them out on the table! He gagged! Then he stutterred for 4 1/2 minutes. His eyes bugged out as I proceeded to stuff the benjamins back in my pocket. I told him how hurt that I was that his employees judged me and ignored me. I left him by saying, "Don't ever judge a book by its cover!". I bellowed it loud enough for everyone in a ten block radius to hear! Those cheap suit wearing salesdinks just smirked and gave me the evil eye!
I proceeded a 1/2mile up the street to the Honda dealer. Those folks treated me as if I was the choosen one. They could not have been nicer. My wish was their command! I had a shiny, BRAND NEW vehicle in less than 35 minutes. I was impressed. No, I was blown away. Yet, I was too irritated by the arrogance of the Chevy dealer too fully enjoy the moment. So, I took my shiny NEW Honda down to the Cadillac dealer. I rushed in and demanded to see the manager again. When he finally decided to get his fat A%s off of his chair and come see me, I could barely contain myself! I asked him if he wanted to take a ride in my NEW car! Yeah, my new HONDA! Tee Hee, I told him to go fluff himself, as I sped away!
The arrogance, greed, poor business practices, and total ignorance led the Big Three to where they are today. I say let them reap what they have sown!
;):cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::D
Last edited by Fezz; 12-13-2008 at 08:40 PM.
and Fezz, that is another point. I think there is truly the general belief from the Big 3 that people will buy their cars, because they are American. Go to your office and talk to people about their car experiences. It is amazing how people are treated so bad and how people are treated so good.
Last September, I was looking for a new car. I bought a Suzuki. Why? Not because I loved the model the best. No, I was looking at others on the road. Not because of the price. I bought it, because the dealer, which is a Hyundai/Suzuki/Subaru place, treated me so much better than I hear other places treat their people.
It's unfortunate but is reality that there is good and bad in every industry. The auto industry seems to have always had more bad than good, with no shortage of shady characters on the sales floor.
In my opinion, I think the Big 3 and its' employees deserve everything they get here; it has come full circle. I don't feel sorry one bit for their shareholders, management or employees.
However, I do feel sorry for everyone that will be caught in the trickle down effect of this economic collapse if there is no successful resolution.
It is a most humbling experience for the Big 3 to say the least which warrants major structural, organizational and operational changes if they are to succeed in receiving a bailout. This is certainly not a free lunch and not an extension of further credit to keep them alive for another 6 months.
We are all indirectly affected here if it collapses...And if it does, it will all flow down the S*#t river and every one of us is downstream.
I caught a part of Meet the Press today. It had a panel. I only saw what Mitt Romney had to say. But they were talking about the supposed $2000 difference per car for making a big three versus making a Honda or Toyota. They talked about lowering that cost differential, which is right.
But you know, I took a step back and said, who buys a Honda because it is cheaper than a Ford? No one, because Honda's, Toyota's, and Nissan's tend to be more expensive than a lot of the Big Threes. Especially when the family pricing is on. The Big Three's have lowered their prices to try to draw people away from the other guys. $2000 is nothing when you are looking at a $40k truck. I would rather pay that $2000 to get what I want.
The problem is, people in general do not want these products unless they are cheaper.
[quote=
The problem is, people in general do not want these products unless they are cheaper.[/quote]
Even then most people dont't want them. Both Honda and Toyota produces far superior products than the Big 3, period.
FWIW I had a similar unpleasant experience with a Mazda dealership a number of years ago. So Mazda also sucks, right? ;)
And just a couple of weeks ago, I was treated pretty shabbily by a Toyota dealership. The next day I went to another Toyota dealer (Scion to be exact) and was treated great.
Maybe it's just me but I would not be so quick to jump to the conclusion that just because one car dealer treats you bad (or even a few) this is a reflection on the entire company. If I lived by that creed, I doubt I'd ever shop anywhere for anything.
OptiBoard Administrator
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Well, they are owned by Ford right?
;):cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::D
My wife drives one of the original XBs in white- it looks like a washing machine on wheels. However, it gets 32 mpg in stop and go, and is roomy inside. (We also own a Ford that was made in Kanas City.)
I believe the financiers could really help the big three- they could make the license plates.
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
And the bad Toyota dealer? How does that fit into your 'Americans car manufacturers and dealers are all lazy and bad' scenario? ;)
In fact, the experience at the Toyota dealership was the worst I had even encountered in 30 years of purchasing cars.
OptiBoard Administrator
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OptiBoard has been proudly serving the Eyecare Community since 1995.
The United Auto Workers may be out of the hole now that President Bush has approved a $17 billion bailout of the U.S. auto industry, but the union isn't out of the bunker just yet.
Even as the industry struggles with massive losses, the UAW brass continue to own and operate a $33 million lakeside retreat in Michigan, complete with a $6.4 million designer golf course. And it's costing them millions each year ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,472304,00.html
Why? The Big Three's executives and management have taken their share of "hits" on this thread. Now it's the UAW's turn ...
Are you reading more posts and enjoying it less? Make RadioFreeRinsel your next Internet port of call ...
The Union is not the company though. The Union makes its money off of union dues, not whether the company is profitable or not. Most of all, the UAW represents far more people than autoworkers.
Well, that about sums it all up doesn't it?:bbg:
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Its not just the USA. The Toyota, Jaguar, BMW, Ford car plants are all on very tricky ground in Europe. One plant not too far from me has reduced to 4 day weeks
What ever way you look at it, if car sales are down, the ned to build cars will also decline
The union is not the company. The union is there to "ensure that its employees are able to make a fair living." I put it in brackets, because of course, some unions really twist that.
The union itself is not GM or Ford or Chrysler. Its financial well being has nothing to do with those three companies. The union dues will be the same whether their employees are making $20.00 an hour or $90.00 (since after a certain point, tends to be a flat rate per employee).
The difference here is that the UAW is a good business. It may have questionable tactics and results, but financially, it is a good business. Would you fault Toyota or Wal-Mart or Exxon for having a huge corporate retreat when it is running back to back to back profits?
They are a good business only as long as the have a company that employs their workers.
No profit = No company.
They are a good business like the gov't is good business.:hammer:
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
I agree that if they do not have workers they do not make the money. But that has nothing to do with the situation GM, Ford, or Chrysler is in. The Union excesses in those companies do not fuel the funds for the UAW. Actually, if would be in the UAWs best interest to make sure its employees do not make any increases, so that the big three can hire more workers and the UAW gets more union dues.
And you would be surprised about how good some governments are. My organization for one, is far more efficient than most private companies I know. Of course, we watch every dollar we spend and how we spend it. We do not have corporate jets or big parties with flowing alcohol.
The birth of the UAW came out of necessity. In a nutshell, the workers needed representation and could not represent themselves beyond a sit-down that brought the company goons down upon them. The only other thugs in town belonged to "questionable" organizations but were happy to step in and help. Thus came the age where the workers who built the cars could afford to buy the cars.
Now, the UAW and most other unions exist solely to ensure their own existance and have long outlived their former usefulness. Much like our own government body.
A: The UAW is not asking for a bailout.
2: The workers have already reduced their compensation/benefits.
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