Well, as much as I hate to say it here is my prediction of tonights debate. Cheney will come across as a h@rd@ss and Edwards will come across as charismatic (not to mention cute-why can't the GOP find a hot babe to run???)
Thoughts anybody???????
Well, as much as I hate to say it here is my prediction of tonights debate. Cheney will come across as a h@rd@ss and Edwards will come across as charismatic (not to mention cute-why can't the GOP find a hot babe to run???)
Thoughts anybody???????
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Edwards has the edge on "What's your favorite BBQ sauce?" but Cheney will more than even the score on "Where were you ... when President Kennedy was shot?" -- !
Last edited by rinselberg; 10-05-2004 at 03:39 PM.
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I dunno Karen.... I think that Edwards is charasmatic and good looking too! But, I think that Cheny will stick to his guns. It should be interesting!
I think it would be unfortunate if someone based their vote on presentation alone.
I know....wishful thinking on my part, eh?
Jana Lewis
ABOC , NCLE
A fine quotation is a diamond on the finger of a man of wit, and a pebble in the hand of a fool.
Joseph Roux
It's hard to predict, Cheney has the gravitas, Edwards the experience of arguing in front of a jury. I think this debate is more important than the average VP debate because a lot of people are less than thrilled with both the Presidential candidates.
I would love to see Edwards take Cheney on re enviromental issues--the exec order rolling back restrictions on snowmobiling in federal parks e.g., not a big issue, but one that is so emblematic of this admin; also his (Cheney's) record in the Senate--defending his vote on the South African apartheid issue e.g., or his many votes against weapons systems (same thing the republicans hurl at Kerry) both in Congress and at DOD.
My husband suggests a drinking game: a shot everytime Halliburton or frivolous law suits are mentioned!
chm,
Might want to rethink that drinking game... using those rules you'd likely suffer alcohol poisoning in the first 15 minutes! Better stick to soft drinks. :D
I haven't seen anything on the rules for tonight's debate. Will they even get to ask each other questions? Or will it be more of a joint press conference like last week?
I think the only difference is that they will be sitting at a table with the moderator. Would think this might spark a little bit more spontaneity (Dick you ignorant slut...). Well I can dream, can't I?Originally Posted by Blake
Betcha Cheney can drink Edwards under the table! I think this debate will help make up some voters minds. I do think Cheney has a good grasp of the issues but I think the way he presents his arguments will look more defensive because of the way he speaks sometimes. Edwards is a smooth operator and knows how to work the crowd. I myself prefer Cheney's style-I don't like that slick lawyer stuff but I think Cheney needs to be careful how he comes across. We shall see!!
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Jana,
Don't support republicans - they want to take away a woman's right to choose what's best for own body.
What's the over/under for the number of F-bombs that Cheney will drop?
Spexvet darling, we don't think of it as taking away a womans rights so much as protecting the rights of the unborn... (you knew I would have to take the bait!) I find it interesting that we think reproducing is a "right". Some people just shouldn't (reproduce that is) You can't drive if you don't pass the test-at least you are not supposed to-but you can have as many children as you like regardless of whether you can take care of them physically, emotionally or financially. I am sure this will spark a lively debate. I can't check back in to argue with you until this evening, my mom is having surgery today and I am going to sit with my dad and wait.
P.S. didn't catch the whole debate but I liked the part where Cheney told Edwards off for his attendance record. Senator Gone??? His own hometown paper calls him that??? Too funny! And not an F bomb in sight ;)
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Karen,
I know how you feel about the right to choose, I was addressing Jana because in a previous thread she argued adamantly in favor of choice, but sounded in this thread as though she supported Cheney. Those two sentiments would be at odds with each other, IMHO.
I am not going to take the bait and argue choice with you.....this time.
PS. I liked Edwards response to Cheney telling him off for his attendance record. I didn't realise Cheney was so heartless, callous, and irresponsible:
"vice president, I'm surprised to hear him talk about records. When he was one of 435 members of the United States House, he was one of 10 to vote against Head Start, one of four to vote against banning plastic weapons that can pass through metal detectors.
He voted against the Department of Education. He voted against funding for Meals on Wheels for seniors. He voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King. He voted against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela in South Africa.
It's amazing to hear him criticize either my record or John Kerry's. "
Last edited by Spexvet; 10-06-2004 at 09:18 AM.
I hope your Mom is OK.
Here's the summary FactCheck.org sent out after the VP debate:
Please visit http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=272 to view this FactCheck article in full.Cheney & Edwards Mangle Facts
Getting it wrong about combat pay, Halliburton, and FactCheck.org
10.06.2004
Summary
Cheney wrongly implied that FactCheck had defended his tenure as CEO of Halliburton Co., and the vice president even got our name wrong. He overstated matters when he said Edwards voted "for the war" and "to commit the troops, to send them to war." He exaggerated the number of times Kerry has voted to raise taxes, and puffed up the number of small business owners who would see a tax increase under Kerry's proposals.
Edwards falsely claimed the administration "lobbied the Congress" to cut the combat pay of troops in Iraq, something the White House never supported, and he used misleading numbers about jobs.
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thanks-surgery went well and now we do the wait for pathology pray it's not cancer dance.
And here I thought that bait was for me! Perhaps in another thread when I am less crabby due to baby not sleeping and mom worries!
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Karen,
Say hello to your mother for me and tell her I wish her the best.
See you the 19th.
Jerry
Thank you my friend. I will pass that along to her. I won't be there the 19th. It is not in my territory and right now baby sitters are scarce so I save them for ones I have to go to. Once the AR facility gets up and running we will do more at the lab-we will have a room just for seminars! We are hoping to be up and running by the end of the year. Then you can come out that way and check out the new equipment. Keep in touch and tell Janice hi!
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Sorry to miss you. I'll relay the message to Janice. I talked to Jennifer yesterday and I am looking forward to seeing the AR up and running.
Jerry
Cheney, Sept 14, 2003: Iraq "the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, most especially on 9/11."
Cheney, Oct 5, 2004 (yes, at the debate): "Saddam Hussein had an established relationship with al Qaeda"
Cheney, Oc 5, 2004 (right, same debate): "I have not suggested that there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11".
Oh Lord, and I thought this guy was the part of the team who understood the language.
Unintentionally funny: William Weld on Imus this morning: "I agree than the elections in Iraq should go forward even if portions of the population are not enfranchised. Look what happened in Florida in 2000."
Tragically funny: CIA final report says no WMD and no programs to develop WMD. Credits the UN weapons inspectors (you remember them, the ones the administration scorned) and the embargo (you remember that, the one the administration scorned) with keeping Saddam unarmed. Saddam was apparently trying to convince Iran that he was more dangerous than he was. How about that, the US buying a second hand bluff. Thank God we have an experienced guy like Cheney at the helm, or else we might have made a really stupid, "BUSH league" mistake. Oh wait......
Last edited by chm2023; 10-07-2004 at 10:16 AM.
Spex-
In no way was I supporting Cheny. I am left as left can get! I was only concerned because Edwards has little debate experience. I am proud of how Edwards conducted himself...and yes, I will still be voting Kerry/Edwards Nov. 2nd. In doing so....I will protect my right to choice!
Jana Lewis
ABOC , NCLE
A fine quotation is a diamond on the finger of a man of wit, and a pebble in the hand of a fool.
Joseph Roux
Sorry for the confusion.:hammer:
Edwards showed he would not be intimidated. He also knows his stuff.
I've been unable to visit as of late, but as I watched the two debates I did wonder what the back-and-forth on this site would be. My congratulations on (from what I can see) is well-thought out comments from both sides!
Not that anyone asked, but since I always like to chime in, I thought the first Presidential debate went about 55-45% to Kerry. What has impressed me much more than the actual debate (which I found to be absolutely boring) was the organization and lock-step of the Democrat spin teams afterwards. Given the Dems did a much better job of "selling" Kerry's performance at the debate, I'd have to say the overall impression to the public is more like a 65-35% to Kerry score on this debate. As a faithful GOP'r, I have to say this debate gave a dead Kerry campaign a real shot in the arm (I still think Bush will lose this election, I'll be shocked- and pleasantly surprised- if he wins).
Conversely, I thought Cheney pretty soundly pounded Edwards (however, this is obviously biased, because I really enjoy Cheney's debating style). Giving the youngster credit, I thought he fared much better against Cheney than Leiberman did four years ago, and I have to admit the Cheney performance didn't undo the Kerry gains from the 1st debate. I thought this was a much better debate, however, and the moderator did a good job (although I could have done without some of her sarcasm- just moderate the debate).
Anyway, going forward, Bush needs to take this "poorly planned" mantra away from Kerry. The whole "I've consistently felt we should disarm Saddam, but we should have planned better" position is wonderfully crafted and Kerry's handlers should get kudos. After all, even Johnny can keep from flip-flopping in a 90 minute debate, and saying that he would have planned better is a wonderful allegation that can't be disproven. (PS- Anyone else note the UN report that shows the oil-for-food program administered by that organization was being blantantly abused by several of the opponents to the invasion... gee, that might explain a few things about some of those not joining the coalition this time around.)
During the domestic debate, I'll be happy if Bush is simply able to point out that simply "rolling back the tax cuts on the wealthy" isn't going to add much, if any, money to the government coffers. Sure, it sounds really good to the middle class lemming (like me) who says "yeah, sock it to those rich ba$tards!" Unfortunately, there's a lot more of us middle classers out there, so if you want to raise revenue through taxes, it has to involve a middle class tax raise (which Kerry will undoubtably do). I'm more interested in rolling back the Medicare drug coverage bill! Note to candidates- stop talking about the money you're going to spend, and start talking about where you're going to cut!!!
Also, for all the talk about "helping small businesses," I suppose someone should point out that raising taxes in the >$200k sector socks it to small businesses as well (I think Cheney did). Also, if I heard correctly (from a Kerry ad), Kerry supports raising the minimum wage to >$7.00. Good freaking god- this guy is dangerous! I hope he's not serious (then again, its hard to tell what Kerry is ever serious about).
That was my (obviously biased) take, anyway. Enjoy the two remaining debates!
Pete Hanlin, ABOM
Vice President Professional Services
Essilor of America
http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74
Hi Pete! Nice to see you! I was listening to someone on talk radio the other day who said if we took 100% of all the rich guys money, it would only run governement for about 2 months. Being a middle class lemming myself (who by the way is better of than I was 4 years ago especially financially and WAY better off than 8 years ago) I think most of the tax burden has always rested on us-not percentage wise but just by our sheer numbers.
I am going to go on record here and make a bet with my democrat friends. If Kerry wins he will raise taxes. Betcha a Susan B Anthony dollar! Sadly I think he might pull it off (winning that is). But I survived his friend Bill, guess I can muddle through for 4 years-as long as I don't have to learn to speak Korean! Looking forward to Friday's debate. Hopefully W will keep his facial expressions more presidential.
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Of course the middle class pays most of the taxes- we're the great wallet of our society! Furthermore, speaking as one who is not rich- but wouldn't mind trying it out someday- if you've managed to accumulate a bunch of wealth, chances are, you've worked for it so I fail to see why you should pay a huge chunk of it to support others (that's my take anyway, very few people come from "old" money these days).
President Kerry? I ditto your comments, Karen. The "international councils" might be entertaining... and perhaps it will be comforting to know that the fine people of foreign countries will "respect" our leader to a greater degree (we should obviously do what the rest of the world wants, which is probably what's best for America, since they obviously have our best interests at heart and all). Furthermore, we should promptly put Saddam back in power and apologize for getting rid of 75% of his regime (after all, it was the wrong time and place to take him out).
Plus, if Kerry wins it will be REAL fun when Hillary decides to run against an incumbant from her own party in four years- I'd enjoy that tremendously.
All in all, its probably worth the $1-2k in extra taxes I'd pay under the Kerry-Edwards ficklefest love-in, and well worth four years of "I'm President John Kerry- reporting for duty" at the beginning of the SOTU address.
Pete Hanlin, ABOM
Vice President Professional Services
Essilor of America
http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74
You guys are funny. Way off base in your "interpretation" of facts, but funny.
The taxes other paid in the past helped them get a good education and heath care, and enabled it so they can freely make money in a land of opportunity.
I've got no problem with tax cuts as long as you cut spending to keep the budget balanced. If you don't do that then you are basically asking future generations to pay for the programs of today.
In my view that is both dishonest and irresponsible. If you can't pay for the programs you want, then prioritize and cut them back OR do the honest thing and generate enough revenue to pay for them. The problem is that politicians don't want to make the hard choices because it's much easier to pander to the public now. After all, the votes of our children and grandchildren don't really matter much to them, do they?
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