The Dixie Chicks - not ready to make nice

[rsandr]

Here in the UK i'm sick of hearing the Dixie Chicks tune and trailers for talk shows highlighting their obvious disgruntlement.

So what did they do? And are you Americans really that p*ssed with them?

[Steve Machol]

I'm not. They spoke their mind which some people have a problem with.

[rsandr]

I'm not. They spoke their mind which some people have a problem with.

Did they simply speak out against the war? Or was there more to it?
I hear they recieved death threats.

[For-Life]

They spoke their mind against George W. Bush, and apparantly freedom of speech is not allowed in the US anymore.

You do not see me crucifying Dennis Miller for his conservative views.

[rsandr]

They spoke their mind against George W. Bush, and apparantly freedom of speech is not allowed in the US anymore.

You do not see me crucifying Dennis Miller for his conservative views.

On a similar note I do get tired of celebrities and pop stars shoving their political views down everyones throats.

Its not as if they run for government to try to make a change.

[Steve Machol]

Did they simply speak out against the war? Or was there more to it?
I hear they recieved death threats.

Here's what they said:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in544132.shtml

On a similar note I do get tired of celebrities and pop stars shoving their political views down everyones throats.

In the U.S, that's only a proiblem if they express liberal views or positions that dissent from the current Administration positions. No one seems to have a problem with Celebrities that voice support for Bush or the Administrations policies.

[For-Life]

On a similar note I do get tired of celebrities and pop stars shoving their political views down everyones throats.

Its not as if they run for government to try to make a change.

Well I think those opinions are necessary. However, it is up to the individual to weed out the smart comments from the idiotic. Unfortunately, too many of us listen to the idiotic.

[Jubilee]

It seems amazing to me that a song that isn't getting any airplay (at least here in the midwest) is able to help secure a top spot on the album chart in total record sales.

So they were ashamed Bush was from Texas.. big deal!

No one has quit listening to U2 for Bono's antiwar remarks.
Dave Matthews still has one of the largest followings in music.
Green Day gets music awards for their anti-Bush anthems..While American Idiot was the most popular song from their latest albumn, the song "Holiday" is pretty damning.

Seek out to the president gasbag
Bombs away is your punishment
Pulverize the Eiffel tower
who criticized your government
Bang bang goes the broken glass man
Kill all the fags that don't agree
Triumph by fires, sinning buyers
Is that a way that's meant for me
Just cause
Just cause because we’re all ok

How about Beastie Boys "World Gone Mad"

You build more bombs as you get more bold/As your mid-life crisis war unfolds/All you wanna do is take control/Now put that Axis of Evil bullsh-- on hold."

All these artists have not only continued to make music, but have prospered while taking their stand.. but the Dixie Chicks are to be shunned for their statements.. I don't get it.

Well I guess I do in some way.. The Dixie Chicks were considered country. Country is supposedly America's Music. Support the President, support our troops, and all that great stuff. How many country songs have came out supporting Bush or the War. Toby Keith's American Soldier and Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue..Darryl Worley's Have You Forgotten.. to name just a few...

The Dixie Chicks not only put down the President, but basically told the people who were upset F-You. They inferred in their interviews and etc that they could gain a different audience if country music doesn't want them. Not exactly the best way to gain your former fan base back.

Do I think they deserved all the crap they got.. No. However they aren't exactly helping their cause either with country music.

Cassandra

[rinselberg]

Natalie Maines of the Dixie Chicks, in front of a concert audience in London; March 10, 2003:

Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas.

Maines was born in Texas.

President Bush was interviewed a month later:

I mean, the Dixie Chicks are free to speak their mind. They can say what they want to say. And just because -- they shouldn't have their feelings hurt just because some people don't want to buy their records when they speak out. You know, freedom is a two-way street ...

So how do we go from THAT to some of the posts on this thread? Such as:

They spoke their minds against George Bush, and apparently freedom of speech is not allowed in the US anymore.

In the US, that's only a problem if they express liberal views or positions that dissent from the current administration's positions. No one seems to have a problem with celebrities that voice support for Bush or the [Bush] administration's policies.

What did anyone ever do to the Dixie Chicks that abridged or tried to abridge any of their First Amendment rights to freedom of speech?

Death threats?

That's not an uncommon problem for celebrities, especially outspoken ones like the Dixie Chicks. But where are the "dots" - how do we go from miscellaneous death threats against the Dixie Chicks (or like-minded celebrities) - death threats from John Q. Public Nutcase-At-Large - how do we go from there, to OptiBoard posts that read like veiled indictments of the Bush administration?

These OptiBoard posts: Cryptic references to more recent controversies about NSA wiretaps and data collections?

The Bush administration hasn't been given a free pass on these issues by Congress - last I read, the administration had closed some of their gaps with Congress by an agreement to restore FISA court jurisdiction over NSA wiretaps.

Valerie Plame? She wasn't a Dixie Chick. And her outing - by person(s) not yet convicted - hasn't exactly slipped under the national radar screen.

So let's not go overboard.

Are these OptiBoard posts about "media bias"?

It would seem that the Dixie Chicks received a lot of hostile reaction from "talk radio", especially in the south and outside of the largest cities, where the radio spectrum may well be dominated by the far right of the political spectrum.

But radio is just one slice of the media pie: There are newspapers and magazines, TV (in its various formats), book publishers and the Internet. I don't want to be the first to brandish "white papers" on a not-so-serious thread, but I think that whenever the media, in its entirety, has been subject to systematic study, there's been no clear concensus on "media bias". The media, on the whole, hasn't been demonstrably "right" or "left" on the political spectrum - it's been a tossup.

OptiBoard posters: Reason and Justice cry out ... Where is your political objectivity? Whose keyboards are "guilty" of trying to tilt the "balance scales"?


For an update on the Dixie Chicks that also reprises the controversy from day one, see "Chicks and Balances" in the Washington Post online, via http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060101536.html.


And for no exact reason (other than this thread brought it to mind), a brief flashback to another turbulent decade that started in 1960:

He said it first ...

Columbia University Professor Herbert Deane, on the topic of student led sit-ins and on-campus protests (1968):

A university is definitely not a democratic institution. When decisions begin to be made democratically around here, I will not be here any longer ... whether students vote "yes" or "no" on an issue is like telling me they like strawberries ...

When they retold it, they boiled it down to ...

Students' opinions are about as important as strawberries.

It finally took its place on library bookshelves as ...

The Strawberry Statement

[OptiJim]

In the US, there seems to be some sort of connection between popularity, stardom or whatever and intelligence.

Some of the american public seems to think that "superstars" opinions are in some way the sentiment of our nation.

If you really think about it, "superstars" opinions may or may not be said with any sort of intelligence or research on any given subject. Its their personal opinion and that is it. Just because you have some talent, doesn't mean you are any more intelligent or less intelligent than anyone else.

The main difference is that "superstars" are in a position to voice their opinion to a mass audience in which some of the audience will not agree. This is where they get into trouble.

For a long time, songwriters have written about politics and their view of society. We continue to listen because we agree with the message or just like the way the notes are arranged.

My point is the Dixie Chicks can definately have their own opinion about the politics of our nation. As a matter of fact I encourage it. The only thing is that if you are going to be in the public eye and your message will be heard by impressionable minds that envy your "stardom" you should act responsibly.

No different than a school teacher who does/does not agree with the gay or lesbian lifestyle stating their opinion or personal belief to their students while in class.

Now before you blast me on this too hard, remember, this is my opinion. :)

[Bill West]

I never liked to hear this fat lady sing.

[chm2023]

Don't know beans about the DC, only that some stations are boycotting their records, which apparently hasn't put a dent in sales. Seems to me this is the very definition of a tempest in a teapot? I'm sure they're lovely girls (or not..) but I really can't see what their opinion of W has to do with, well, anything...

[Pete Hanlin]

It was interesting to see what the Dixie Chicks actually had to say about W. I think I've seen one of their videos and may have caught one or two of their songs on the radio- but they really aren't my cup of tea, anyway.

Like CHM, I'm not sure exactly what relevence their comments have to anything. Its sort of like Alec Baldwin's repeated and continual threats to leave the US (just leave already- maybe he already has).

I suppose these music groups and actors/actresses figure they should use their 15 minutes of fame as a pupit for their personal opinions and beliefs. That's okay, I suppose- but I don't watch Tom Hanks movies because of his (entirely misguided, IMHO) political views- I watch them because my wife usually drags me to them (although I'll admit I enjoyed "Cast Away").

Same thing with Sinead O'Conner (sp?) and her whole deal with the Catholic Church- I mean, wow- ease up a bit there! I'm sure some of it has to do with selling records (er, I mean- discs, or downloads, or whatever the format is today). Given their rather screetchy voices, I'm sure their political views have provided some free marketing- especially since the media loves a chance to cover folks who don't like the admin- regardless of which party is in power.

PS- From the few songs I've seen, it seems as if most of the DCs songs project anger at someone or other- from what I can tell, its not just Bush they dislike- but men in general (could be wrong- I just saw some video where they were beating up this redneck in a trailer or something- probably for abuse or something, which is fine- just not something I want to hear about in my music).

[Jubilee]

Goodbye Earl :)

Yes it was about abuse. After "Earl walked right through that restraining order and put her into intensive care" The girls decided that Earl had to die..

It was acually a very funny song about a very serious subject. They did receive some flack for that as well. Since the song "advocated murder" though Martina McBride's Independence Day was the song that blasted her to star status and is still used as an anthem.. Though the mom in that song burned down the house and committed a murder-sucide. (Don't get me wrong.. I love Martina McBride!)

Wide Open Spaces was about gaining your independence.
Cowboy Take Away was written by Martie for her sister and her fiancee.
When You Were Mine was about the struggle the sisters went through when their father left, from the mom's point of view.
Sin Wagon. Well that is about partying! and sinning!
Some Days you Gotta Dance was written and the guitar was played by Keith Urban!
Their remakes of Traveling Soldier and Landslide were softer hits showing some maturity as they were making babies..

Now, Not Ready to Make Nice is about anger.. but I would be angry to if I received death threats over my political views. Not just a vague threat, but ones that plotted time and place. But if you listen carefully to the lyrics, it isn't just about anger, it is also about trying to find / grant forgiveness and asking how did a simple comment come to this?!?

Obviously, I do like the Chicks! Their music is appealing for many reasons, and I believe part of the problem is the country music industry itself. Chicks, very much like Shania Twain aren't considered to be "real country" by many of the insiders. So when it was popular to be singing the praises of the government and promote patriotism they went against the grain.

Cassandra

[Pete Hanlin]

Jubilee,
Thanks for the run-down on the Dixie Chicks and their songs! All I saw in that video was them beating up some guy (I kind of got the idea the guy must have abused someone, but it just seemed a really dark subject for a music video). I'm glad to hear they aren't angry all the time!

Obviously country music isn't my cup of tea. The only thing I like about country music is that some of it does tell a story (Garth Brooks used to tell stories in his songs- I recall one particularly funny one about burying the hatchet, and one about a truck driver and his cheating wife). The best of all time was a fella named Tom T. Hall, but no one's ever heard of him.

Also, I suppose I don't get into protests too much- regardless of what the topic being protested is (gun control, abortion, anti-abortion, Greenpeace, whatever). I believe what I believe, and I don't particularly feel the need to protest when others believe differently- which is good and bad.

Anyway- no offense intended with the Dixie Chicks- I'm sure they're fine gals. Heck, some of the music I like drives other people crazy (like US3, I can listen to Cantaloop and Lazy Day all day if the mood strikes- drives the wife nuts).

Pete

[OptiJim]

Tom T. Hall...doesn't he love stuff. ;) Definately a good story teller.

[Pete Hanlin]

Tom T. Hall always tells a story in his songs... which include:
"I Like Beer"
"Sneaky Snake"
"400 Hogs"
"Its a Million Miles to the City"
"The Day Clayton Delaney Died"

For example, the aforementioned 400 hogs song...
I met him in a hospital, about a year ago-
and why I still remember him, I guess I'll never know.
He'd lie there and cry out in a medicated fog-
"Here I am in this dang bed and who's gonna feed them hogs?!?"

His face was lean and his hands were rough-
his game was hogs- and his nature was tough.
The doctors tried to tell him that he may not live at all-
but all he ever talked about was who's gonna feed them hogs?!?
(Chorus)
"Four hundred hogs, they just standin' out there-
my wife can't feed em, and my neighbors don't care.
They can't get out and roam around like my ole huntin dog-
here I am in this dang bed and who's gonna feed them hogs?!?"

"Four hundred hogs... comes to 800 hams-
and that's a lotta money, for a hog raisin' man.
Four hundred hogs... comes to 1600 feet-
the market's up and there are people waitin' on that meat!"

Well, the doctors say, they do not know what saved the man from death-
But in a few days he put on his overalls and he left.
That's all there is to this small song- but waitress, 'fore you leave-
would you bring me some coffee- and a hot HAM sandwich, please?
(to the chorus).

I'd be surprised if anyone else on Optiboard has ever heard that song, but it was a staple growing up in our house (my dad had this 8 track that was supposed to be Earl Campbell- but it was Tom T. Hall by mistake... my brothers and I LOVED that 8 track, but we never knew who was singing on it till we grew up and stumbled on Tom T. Hall).

[Johns]

Pete,

Tom T. Hall's nephew is my guitar teacher. He's a great instructor, but I'm a lousy (and I mean lousy!) student.

[Jubilee]

I grew up with my lovely Tom T Hall's children's Albumn..


The Mysterious Fox of Fox Hollow
Sneaky Snake
How to Talk to a Baby Goat
Barn Dance (seeing the previews for Barnyard makes me think of this song)
I Care
Lonsome George the Basset
and more..

Thanks for the memory! Now I am wondering if I can find that albumn to share with my son. I am sure he would love it!

I just looked up Tom T Hall on CMT and he had a Definitive Collection albumn come out last month!

Cassandra

[Pete Hanlin]

Cassandra,
I went to Amazon.com to look for the collection you mentioned, and was surprised to find a CD copy of that 8 track I mentioned from my childhood (we wore that 8 track out decades ago). I've looked for the album In Search of a Song on CD before (ever since figuring out that was the album on the "Earl Campbell" 8 track), but it was never available. This link has snippets of all those marvelous songs (and I've already ordered the CD) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...outThisProduct.

I'm glad to find there are other Tom T. Hall fans out there... that old album has a special place for me, because it is probably the first music I ever played on purpose (that is, the first time as a child that I would deliberately find something and try to play it).

Now that I know where to find the CD, I know what I'll be getting my brothers and father for Christmas this year!

Thanks for mentioning the album,
Pete

[jb@hawkins]

Wow Pete, I thought I was the only one who might remember Tom T. Hall. My father was a drummer in his touring band for several years in the early-mid 70's so I am familiar with a lot of his music. Not the style of music I was into at the time, but the old man played it non-stop...lol.... My favorite was, "I Like Beer" Kinda hits close to home now :)

[Jubilee]

I am glad you found the CD from your youth!

Cassandra