Can a patient have a PD? (not a question)

[Kujiradesu]

Was noodling around on the NJ Optometrist licensing page (which I've never been to and stumbled across this in the FAQ:

"Is an optometrist required to include the "pupillary distance" on an eyeglass prescription?

No. An optometrist is not required to include the interpupillary distance and height segment measurements on an eyeglass prescription.
In the past all spectacle lenses were made of the same index of refraction (density), same center, edge thickness and the same style. All of the patients facial anatomical measurements were taken with a millimeter ruler at the time of the eye examination. With the explosion of new frame designs, lens materials and technologies, the old measurement system is no longer remotely adequate. Proper placement of the appropriate aspect of the lens in front of the patients pupil is critically important for today's technologically more advanced spectacle lense and frame materials. Special instrumentation and devices are required to ensure the prescription lenses will function properly for the patient. The measurements must be made relative to the eyeglass frame selected. Therefore, the patient must be measured by the seller and/or the dispenser of the eyeglass frame. The optometrist cannot assume any responsibility for the proper prescription being misplaced in front of the pupil due to the configuration of the frame, the lens style or material chosen by the patient. Not all lenses are created equal and there are many technological differences.
Pupillary distance, "PD", refers to the measured distance between the patients pupils, and is taken for at least far and near viewing distances. Today's lenses require precise horizontal and vertical placement of the lens selected by the patient. These measurements are effected by the lens and frame shape, size and use (driving, computer or reading) of the prescription. Therefore, the patient must be measured by the seller and/or dispenser of the eyeglass frame.
Segment height, bifocal, trifocal or progressive lenses, refers to the height or placement of the near viewing (intermediate or reading portion) of the lens. Most lens manufacturers have a fitting guide to ensure the lens is positioned for maximum viewing efficiency with minimum of peripheral distortion. Therefore, the patient must be measured by the seller and the dispenser of the eyeglass frame."

I dont work for an Optometrist directly, but I thought this explanation was descriptive and accurate. However, when a patient comes into our optical and asks for their PD (*cough* Warby *cough* Parker *cough*) our company says that we have to give them a copy of the PD we have on file. I'm not doing that anymore.

EDIT: I mean I'm willing to do whatever to keep my patients coming back. Including giving them a PD, but how to monetize and make certain that the eyewear at the end of the rainbow is correct and does the job?

[Chris Ryser]

With the ever increasing size, and of new online optical retailers on the market.....

I don't work for an Optometrist directly, but I thought this explanation was descriptive and accurate. However, when a patient comes into our optical and asks for their PD (*cough* Warby *cough* Parker *cough*) our company says that we have to give them a copy of the PD we have on file. I'm not doing that anymore.

With the ever increasing size, and of new online optical retailers on the market, who can not take those needed measurements, and rely on their customers to supply them, from wherever they can get it, the problem will get solved soon.

The optician is the natural person to take those measurement, because it is part of his/her professional training. However many of them will refuse to to take these measurement without the consumer making the purchase from them.

To refuse to take these measurement is the initiator of the race to develop and supply instruments that will take these measurments automatically and they will be available at any time soon.

It would be so easy to just make a charge to the consumer for the service of giving out these measurements..

[Kujiradesu]

To refuse to take these measurement is the initiator of the race to develop and supply instruments that will take these measurments automatically and they will be available at any time soon.

It would be so easy to just make a charge to the consumer for the service of giving out these measurements..

Ok. I concede, the marketplace has been/is changing in this regard. If someone walks in and wants a PD what should you charge? $25? I mean most consumers will balk at any price, so what's a reasonable price? How do you measure a seg accurately when you don't have a frame? Im honestly asking, because I have seen some of these measuring systems: their measurements leave much to be desired and are often wrong.

[lensmanmd]

Ok. I concede, the marketplace has been/is changing in this regard. If someone walks in and wants a PD what should you charge? $25? I mean most consumers will balk at any price, so what's a reasonable price? How do you measure a seg accurately when you don't have a frame? Im honestly asking, because I have seen some of these measuring systems: their measurements leave much to be desired and are often wrong.

[RIMLESS]

Yep. Just tell them to download an app to take their PD. The horse has left the barn.

[Kujiradesu]

Yep. Just tell them to download an app to take their PD. The horse has left the barn.

I mean, yeah, can't argue much with that.

However, its one thing to just throw up your hands and say let a computer do it for you, and its another to turn that person into a paying customer. I guess thats really what this thread is about, how do you take a person who walks through your door with a preconceived notion about what eyecare is and jiu-jutsu them into believing that what we can do for them has worth (and not make them think that all you care about is $_$). Online retailers can make a pair of eyeglasses, but an app wont adjust your frame, or verify that your prescription is correct, or any of the other things that an optician can bring to the table that an online place just cant. What I'm saying is its not only about do/don't give the PD.

[Chris Ryser]

However, its one thing to just throw up your hands and say let a computer do it for you, and its another to turn that person into a paying customer. I guess thats really what this thread is about, how do you take a person who walks through your door with a preconceived notion about what eyecare is and jiu-jitsu them into believing that what we can do for them has worth (and not make them think that all you care about is $_$).

There have always been the odd price cutter optician in every larger town on this earth. You could always justify their existence by claiming that they would supply lesser quality or service, or both.

However these days when the two largest and richest optical top quality manufacturing corporations worldwide are the owners, and operators of the largest part of online retailers, the old argument is not working anymore.

They are hammering away by advertising their products on any good and high ranking website on the internet, over every continent.

These corporations do not undertake any major spreading of their markets without any in depths studies, before they invest hundreds of millions of dollars in the future.

The conventional optical retail market is visibly changing course. The only question is, how long will it take until this change is being felt physically by the small corner retailer.

[Robert Martellaro]

Somewhat off-topic, but there are a few lens and prescription combinations where an accurate IPD is not essential. However, when it is essential, it comes with a whole lot of baggage that must also be measured, along with additional fitting/optical concerns that must also be addressed to achieve optimal results.

Caveat emptor.

[drk]

Yep. Just tell them to download an app to take their PD. The horse has left the barn.

This is the answer.

If a patient says "I'm ordering glasses online" I say, "Well, if you're a do-it-yourself-optician, more power to you. We don't get involved in that" and we simply move on.

[drk]

Think about it.

We are in the business of making glasses.

Not in the business of helping other people make glasses.

[Kujiradesu]

Think about it.

We are in the business of making glasses.

Not in the business of helping other people make glasses.

So I guess you just see these people as lost causes? They were never going to buy glasses from you so you dont mind showing them the way out? I'm just trying to understand the philosophy.

[Chris Ryser]

You can be of a totally different opinion.............................

So I guess you just see these people as lost causes? They were never going to buy glasses from you so you dont mind showing them the way out? I'm just trying to understand the philosophy.

That is why a place like OptiBoard is of great value. You can be of a totally different opinion or make knowingly a wrong statement if you feel like it, because you are participating under a pseudonym.

Online opticals function like the optical lab does sell to the public as they would to a normal retailer. At close to wholesale pricing.

At this price there are no retail service charges included. If you split up the difference to your selling price, into the service items you put into your final retail pricing, you will come to a result.

[Kujiradesu]

That is why a place like OptiBoard is of great value. You can be of a totally different opinion or make knowingly a wrong statement if you feel like it, because you are participating under a pseudonym.

Online opticals function like the optical lab does sell to the public as they would to a normal retailer. At close to wholesale pricing.

At this price there are no retail service charges included. If you split up the difference to your selling price, into the service items you put into your final retail pricing, you will come to a result.

Chris, I always appreciate your comments because you know your stuff.

So, if we take WP as an example. If someone walks into your optical and says I want to order a pair of glasses from WP. If WP is charging xxx for a single vision RX with frame. Lets just guess that the frame may cost xxx wholesale so if I do x3 markup = xxx. When I order sv lenses from my lab on average were talking xxx so if I mark that up x3 = xxx. So total were talking about xxx for the frame and lenses. Then subtract the cost that the customer has already paid and we get xxx. So if I'm following this right, I should charge this person xxxfor a PD, check that the RX is correct, and adjustment of the frame, o rxxx for each service individually. Seems reasonable to me.

[Steve Machol]

As per the forum rules, I have removed wholesale prices from the previous post.

[Kujiradesu]

As per the forum rules, I have removed wholesale prices from the previous post.

My apologies. Wont happen again.