Okay fellow Opticians! This is a huge call for assistance on this subject. I have close to a zero redo rate on design and dispense of each and every other progressive lens with the exception of the Hoya progressives. Why?
Hoya Progressive Lenses?
Okay fellow Opticians! This is a huge call for assistance on this subject. I have close to a zero redo rate on design and dispense of each and every other progressive lens with the exception of the Hoya progressives. Why?
What would you say your ave. Seg ht is? And what other progressives do you use that work, and which Hoya progressives specifically don't work?
Hows that for a run on question?
Hi Lenore! Which Hoya PALs are you using and what lens are you switching from??
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Hello Lenore,
As it's only one type of lens, Hoya, could the problem be with the 'marking-up-card' you might be using in error?
Zeiss's fitting cross is 6mm Most of Hoya's are 4mm (like Essilor) and there are many older Sola designs and others that use a 2mm drop
So, are you using the right card? Every mm matters!
One other thought, are the non adapts always the same..... e.g. difficulty reading, or distance vision blurred.
Let us know.
Lenore is marking them correctly. Her post Lens Crafters training has been the envy of the industry...
And her boots are still shiny mind you!
Sorry I was being silly...
Last edited by mrba; 05-03-2004 at 05:25 PM.
Clive,
I am using Hoya's own card and stickers to look at lens placement, and to see where the reading lands and how much is there and the alignment of the lens looks just fine. I consulted with my rep, spoke to the lab, both say they are correct and yet my patients cannot read with these lenses. I tried adding panto to rotate the lens for better access. All the marks are where they should be and all I can think is there is some problem with the Hoya lab. I have a zero redo rate as the tolerance level I accept from myself and this has made me stop using the Hoya lenses. I prefer Zeiss Gradal Top and have not had a complaint yet, but the labs that supply my Zeiss lenses are not the same that do my Hoya Lenses and I have yet to have any issue with anything from either of the labs doing Zeiss for me.
I have had trouble with the Hoya Summit and the Hoyalux GP wide.
When I worked for Hoya I spent a lot of time working on getting people to use the product and in all honesty had very good luck. The Summit came out right before I left so I had more experience with the GP Wide. The few times I had problems were with switching from a VIP to a Wide (which did not suprise me) But that being said, if you don't have trouble with anything else it makes me wonder. Are you using a Cali facility? Have you talked to the technical gurus? If you are using San Diego call and talk to Dan-he may be able to help you.Originally Posted by Lenore
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Karen,
Sorry I did not respond sooner, I worked through the weekend followed by two twelve hour days!
I did consult the gurus and it is a Cali lab doing the work, but more northern than southern, I did not get much in the way of answers from them. I was switching people over from Panamic and Comfort, I guess I will stick with Zeiss? It's a zero in the redo department.
About 8 months after our lab was bought by HOYA, I ran some stats on non-adapts. What I found, surprisingly, was that high fitting heights (25+ mm) were almost twice as likely to show a non-adapt than lower fitting heights. That result was surprising because I was actually out to prove that low fitting heights were more problematic. After some investigation, we decided that a possible cause for this result was that HOYA GP Wide (and many other newer general purpose progressives) reach 100% of their full add power in a much shorter progression than Comfort. This shorter progression could prove problematic for some experienced Comfort wearers. After our Sales Reps advised their accounts to fit HOYA GP Wide lower when converting Comfort patients, we saw a decline in non-adapt issues at all heights.
It's been a while since I've run comparative adaptation numbers, but each time I've done so, HOYA general purpose progressive showed a slightly lower non-adapt rate than other progressives (well, actually, SOLA VIP showed the lowest non-adapt rate, which we interpret as meaning that there are relatively few people being put into VIP for the first time--most VIP's produced by our labs are to experienced VIP wearers). This is a non-scientific result, however, since sales by HOYA labs are obviously weighted toward successful HOYA users. That bias may be balanced, however, by the fact that many HOYA progressive sales are in higher (and thus tougher) Rx's due to the popularity of the 1.70 EYRY and 1.60 EYAS materials. Adaptation results are also difficult to compile because of issues with reporting (sometimes other reasons are reported as non-adapts because of better credit policies, there may be an Rx change or two before declaring a non-adapt, etc.). For this reason, I try not to read too much into the results.
The only conclusion from these old non-adapt surveys is that HOYA progressives are at least as competent as their competitors (we like to think more so...). Among the group of committed HOYA dispensers, a very low non-adapt rate may either be the cause or the effect of their loyalty to the products.
RT
Thanks RT!
I just don't think I should work that had to use a lens. Maybe if the Hoya lenses had shown a glimmer of promise for my patients? The other options abound!
I have a perfect track record with Zeiss Gradal Top. Although, I am not totally biased toward Zeiss, it sure is nice not sending my patients home with a headache!
I currently use Zeiss lenses and have had great success, but have had some interest in trying hoya product. Doesnt Hoya credit you the cost of their lenses and then also replace with a different brand for free? That shows me the must be pretty confident in their product.
All I can say is that GRADAL TOP is something else!
Switched over some Trifocal wearers to it without a problem.
:D
I think that if you currently use Zeiss and want to switch to Hoya it would be a good learning expirience.
It occurs to me that Zeiss or any other company wouldn't need a guarantee like that, because their product is good enouph!
it also occurs to me that if you asked for such a guarantee from anyone else, they would probably give it.
why do think it would be a learning experience? Do you think i will like the product less than Zeiss? By the way the attraction to Hoya has to do with their new AR Super hi-vision.
They were doing that for a while-if that is important to you make sure it is still available and that you get all the details
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Not to push product here, but if you are afraid to try Hoya then there are options. Essilor has the Alize coating and Nikon has the Ice coating. Both those two coatings, from what I hear, are better than the Hoya one. Additionally, Sola has their Teflon coating, I don't know how it stacks up.
Try the Seiko Proceed. It is thinner and almost no non adapts.
Is seems Hoya's confidence should stop at the lab door. I am not willing to waste anymore of my time, my doctor's time, and especially my patients time while I experiment with their lenses. And I did not find that the Super HiVision was in the top five favorites.
Like I said I use Zeiss and that AR is better than the essilor product. The hoya is supposed to be the most scratch resistant lens acording to colts lab testing.
I don't think that is correct.
someone from hoya can probable confirm this, but I think the rating on the super highvision coating was around a 12 on the bayer test. By the way that is almost as good as glass.
Yes, But I have seen literature distributed by Hoya saying 6, and other coatings as a 1 or 2 or somehting. I believe Vivix and Clairis are also 12+ (Vivix being the highest) and Carat by Zeiss as well as Tephlon is also up there in the stratosphere...
On thing is for sure, whoever is the most, wont be for long... Sorry I have trouble believing what i read b/c this is the optical business after all.
We were talking about Hoya progressives and now we've switched to AR?
Okay then...the essilor redicoat AR, is like chewing gum that has been chewed too long, it just self destructs! Poof, it's flaking everywhere. Love Zeiss, love, love, love. I have been using Vivix, however, on 1.60 to try to get away from the odd color refection my patients have been complaining about, and so far so good. Personally I like the odd color, but that is just me.
If you have not noticed, I gave up on the Hoya progressives. I have concluded that since nobody was able to boast grand success with them, they are just a poorly designed lens. Phew, I thought it was just me! :idea:
Last edited by Lenore; 05-11-2004 at 01:13 AM.
Re you guys talking about the Alize or their other ARs like Crizal, Trio, RF99, RFNP. I have used the Zeiss and the Hoya Super Hi (I have it on one of my pair) and I do not think that they even come close to the Alize. Saying that, I do not know what the bayer test for the Alize is. I have been using the Alize since October and not one customer has come back with it scratched or crazed. With Crizal I get either a very, very deep scratch or not scratches, and only one craze a year on average.
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