Flexon Woes

**drk** · 04-27-2004, 10:12 AM

Marchon is changing their Flexon product, and I'm confused, since it's all over the board.

First, there is the whole confusing Autoflex, Flexon division, which makes no sense, but that's old news.

Then, they add this Flexon Select, which seems to mean that we pay more for a trendier frame than for the more conservative designs. Huh?

Then, TiFlex comes and goes, and that was way expensive, too.

They have a grand total of two Flexons in the Tres Jolie line, and about 2 or 3 traditional Flexon ladies designs. Is Flexon a dude's line only, or what?

Now, here's the kicker, the come out with this 600 series, which is freshly designed, and much lower priced, but made in China, so, ostensibly, it's of lesser quality than their Japan frames.

What do I do? Flexon sells and has good brand recognition. It really is one of the most durable frames on the market, and that's how we position it currently, at a fairly high price ($250 or so).

My question: is the Flexon made in China a better deal for the consumer at $169, or the Flexon made in Japan for $249? Has Marchon sold out the venerable Flexon brand name for the cheap buck?

I'd go Turaflex, but isn't it rather limited for men? There's NO Turaflex ladies. (Don't bother me with Easytwist, thanks.)

**Ryan** · 04-27-2004, 11:53 AM

Don't forget Nike aka (king of backorder):bbg:

**Johns** · 04-27-2004, 08:10 PM

Nike is made in China. I have received the same flexon (Autoflex 84-kids) in the same box, one made in Japan, one made in China. The only difference I see is the font on the packaging.

Anyway, I was told that there is nothing wrong with buying frames made in China anymore. My (ex) Lux rep said it!:D

**Eddie G's** · 04-27-2004, 09:16 PM

Also Flexon has that kid's/teen line called "X GAMES".

**mrba** · 04-27-2004, 10:29 PM

The core flexon is all made in China

**drk** · 04-28-2004, 08:10 AM

Every core Flexon on my board says "frame Japan". Where do you guys get the "made in China" thing? The labeling issue, again? Is that what you're saying?

**Chris Ryser** · 04-28-2004, 08:34 AM

drk said:

Every core Flexon on my board says "frame Japan". Where do you guys get the "made in China" thing? The labeling issue, again? Is that what you're saying?

Manufacturers have done that forever or at least since the late 60s when Christian Dior Optyl frames were made in Canada, then shipped to Europe, assembled at stamped made in Germany or Austria. Then they were re-exported and had become made in another country than they where actually made.

This is a common thing today. Even the Japanese frames are made in China. Technology has advanced and Chinese frames can be top quality. Made where means totally nothing today.

Just learn how to recognize the quality you want and don't worry where they are made.

Just look at the lenses you are using and I bet you that at least every second lens you are using is made in some country in the far east. And it makes no difference if the name on the envelope says Essilor or Sola.

**drk** · 04-28-2004, 03:44 PM

http://www.eyecarebiz.com/archive_re...903fbframe.htm

This article is somewhat enlightening. It says that if it is substantially transformed in a country, it can legally be marked as made in that country. It seems to me that the most common substantial transformation would be putting on a finish, and Ryser's commented on the quality differences in that in previous posts.

And it seems that all the base metals, nickel silver, nibrodal, monel, stainless, etc. are from the same source, so it doesn't matter if it's bent into shape in Europe or not.

And it sounds like working parts like spring hinges are often made in Europe and used by manufacturers in China, so that quality is going to be the same...

And it also sounds like manufacturing processes used in the far east by the major european manufacturers are automated, so quality of labor may not be such a big thing...

So, it does seem convincing that frame country of origin is misleading as an indicator of quality.

Ok, then, how the heck do we know which frames are good quality? The type of metal used? The quality of the finish? The quality of the spring hinge? How is that objectively gauged when previewing a line? I don't want to sell cra* to my patients and only find out when it comes back broken six months later.

I guess there is no objective way. "Let the buyer beware".

**Johns** · 04-28-2004, 10:51 PM

DRK:

If you have a Nike Flexon on your board, it says "china" on it. Not very large, but it's there.

The Autoflex 84 is discontinued now. I just bought 400 of them. About 300 of them are marked "japan" the rest are marked "china".

Look at your rep's samples next time they come in. We stock a ton of Flexon, and see different origins on many of them.

**drk** · 04-29-2004, 01:02 PM

HOLY SMOKES!:drop: What are you going to do with 400 Autoflex 84's?

My Nike's do say "China" for kids, but "Japan" for adults.

You know, I just don't care anymore. (Oh no...I'm turning into an Optiboarder!):(

**Chris Ryser** · 04-29-2004, 01:39 PM

drk said:

I don't want to sell cra* to my patients and only find out when it comes back broken six months later.

In all this discussion I think we have neglected to mention that spectacle frames have broken for the last 100 years.

It makes no difference where they come from, what materials they are made of........................people damage them ............ sit on them.....................step on them....................drive over them............dog chews them up.and on and on.

How about you guy's andf girls start learning how to solder the metal frames, how dissolve the broken plastic surface and the get them back together. Replace a hinge and so forth.

There is no such thing as a no break frame and should not be sold as such and you have no problem to sell them another frame or repair it.

The customer is not always right, they bend a frame, then it is bent back and if that happens a few times "metal fatigue" kicks in and the thing breaks.

I don't think that when a customer brings back a broken metal frame it is still in its state of perfect adjustment, it is probably bent to heck.

**drk** · 04-29-2004, 03:01 PM

Chris, you're right about the breakage issue. 80% of the time it's from abuse/accidents.

I'm concerned about low-quality spring hinges, finishes, pad-arm solders, etc. I truly want to stay away from the junk.

Soldering will not catch on in the lenient warranty world. It's built into the cost of the frame, for better or worse.

**Chris Ryser** · 04-29-2004, 07:01 PM

drk said:

I'm concerned about:

low-quality spring hinges,

finishes,

pad-arm solders, etc.

I truly want to stay away from the junk.

drk,

hinges are just about made in the same pot for everybody..............

finishes,,,,on surfaces........you can catch a bad one even on pricy frames.

pad-arm solders ect: soldering is done electronically, on all frames ist is the same process. If the pad arm comes off I would bet it is metal fatigue from a lot of bending.

There is no way you will be able to stay away from chunk until you develop the nose to smell it out. You might even catch some chunk from the high end distributor.

Sorry but that is todays optical state of the profession.

**Johns** · 04-29-2004, 09:32 PM

Drk,

The Autoflex 84 was one of our best selling kids frames. Now it really is!

I have to agree with Chris...

They all break one way or another. I give warranties on all my frames like they were all top quality. Some are,some aren't. I'd much rather reach in my box of China frames and pull out a replacement than call the big house distributor, pay for more shipping, send the old one back, wait for a credit. Why bother?
I'll put alot of the stuff in my box up against most of the high end stuff. A brand name doesn't equate quality to me anymore.

**mrba** · 04-30-2004, 03:23 AM

I used to work for an executive desighner in one of the big frame companies. he was talking about how they were all cutting manufacturing costs 50% and this was 5 years ago. Just imagine how cheap those flexons are to make now!!!!

**fvc2020** · 04-30-2004, 09:02 AM

I had my Nike rep in my office on Wednesday and asked her about this. She said the change was due to the US dollar vs the Euro..She was told that the flucuation was insane and the market value in Asia was better...Better to keep the prices good and not lose any markets here by raising prices....

Christina

**drk** · 04-30-2004, 09:37 AM

Snow Job!

**Chris Ryser** · 04-30-2004, 10:40 AM

fvc2020 said:

She said the change was due to the US dollar vs the Euro..She was told that the flucuation was insane and the market value in Asia was better...Better to keep the prices good and not lose any markets here by raising prices....

I like arguments like that. They buy in China, bring it to Europe and then charge Euros when exporting to the USA. As the Euro is now higher than the US Dollar you are paying even more.

They make a good buck buying at low chinese prices and then add the Euro against US $ as additional profit.
(This is not the importer but the European chinese manufacturer)