Who would you rather see buy Cole?
Moulin
Luxottica
Who would you rather see buy Cole?
AND WHY?
You have the right to change your mind as more information comes out!
Easily, Moulin.
If Luxottica is not stopped, they will take over the world, and life will end on this planet as we know it!
Seriously, I'm not sure how good of a buy Cole is, anyway. At an inflated price, someone could get skinned. I'm sure Luxottica has the brains to walk away from the deal. Is Moulin that capitalized that they can take on such a huge venture? Do they know anything about US retail markets?
If Moulin buys Cole, the industry will be status quo. If Luxottica buys it, we're in for huge, long-term ramifications.
Last edited by drk; 04-21-2004 at 12:24 PM.
the devil you know vs. the devil you dont:angry:
Paul:cheers:
Luxottica.
Let the DOJ rock their world.
All the stores will have to push Luxottica products, and that company will control 35% of the US retail Marketdrk said:
If Luxottica is not stopped, they will take over the world, and life will end on this planet as we know it!
All the stores will have to push chinese products, deal with chinese insurance plans.
If Mulin buys Cole, the industry will be status quo.
And the chinese state will control 35% of the US retail market.
No status quo in either case !!!!!!!!!!!!
Drk said:DR.KIf Moulin buys Cole, the industry will be status quo. If Luxottica buys it, we're in for huge, long-term ramifications
What are the long-tern ramifications?
????????????
If Luxottica did not buy Lenscrafters and Lenscrafters was buying out Cole would we be better off?
Would Lenscrafters be cheaper of more expensive?
Would they have more stores or fewer?
Would they have 35% markest share >Or<?
Doesn't matter to me. I just sold the Cole Stock I bought last year and made a ton of money. 150% profit in less than a year. Yup! took the money and ran. You just gotta love the stock market lately.
Chris, were you being sarcastic? You know that made in italy means made in Bejitaly right?All the stores will have to push chinese products, deal with chinese insurance plans.
And the chinese state will control 35% of the US retail market.
No status quo in either case !!!!!!!!!!!!
I still don't understand why one of the US super conglamerates doesn't plck it up.
Jacqui:
Name a US super conglomerate. ]
Most are not "super" in the big picture.
OK, how about just a big one?? Someone should see it's value. If I had the money, I'd buy it.
I have been saying that on the Optiboard for 2 years, but it does not sink inmrba said:
Chris, were you being sarcastic? You know that made in italy means made in Bejitaly right?
There is no such thing that can make thousands of stores sell your merchandise the way you tell them. They will change the name to something like "THE OPTICAL WALMART"or from Cole to Chinese National
Why not have an american conglomerate pick it up
Last edited by Chris Ryser; 04-22-2004 at 04:09 AM.
By "status quo" I meant that business would go on as usual, obviously, unlike the Luxottica buy-out scenario:
1. Eye Med has the opportuntity to become truly competitive with VSP
2. Most private opticals drop Luxottica product, for self-preservation
3. The higher-end commercial optical marketplace, for all intents and purposes, is controlled by a single company
4. The commercial optical marketplace is now higher quality products and higher fashion, making it a tougher competitor
5. Luxottica's able to advertise for Sears, Lenscrafters, etc. in a single marketing campaign, if they choose
6. Private vs. commercial is more hotly divided than ever, and we have to work harder to stay relevant, unique
I could go on. I see a bipolar industry if Lux wins: Commercial, with extreme vertical integration (apparently including a lens company, which would be a good thing for us), with much direct-to-consumer marketing, very competitive brands, styles, and qualities, EyeMed
(And WalMart, the low-low-cost alternative, which will probably better their market position us during all this, somehow)
VERSUS
The private industry, with unique brands, greater flexibility in what to offer, better expertise and service, higher prices by necessity, VSP and other insurances, (you know the drill).
If Moulin wins, I don't see them being able to really change the industry very much, other than the "foriegn ownership bogey-man" perception. Right now Cole is cra*, I know, since I used to be rather involved with them. They have cra*** frames, cra*** labs, all sorts of locations everywhere in various states of repair and sales. They are not that tough a competitor, to a private optical. The only reason they have market share, in my opinion, is that they offer "discounts", discount insurance plans, promotionals out the wazoo, etc, the perception that they are owned by Sears, who will allow a customer to return a ten-year-old lawn mower, etc. They are discounters, a la Walmart.
Luxottica would clean that up, I'd think, and Moulin would not, leaving the independant with less to compete with.
Would you rather have a Sears/Walmart open right next door, or a Lenscrafters/Pearle?
Keep COLE down!
(But, I'd settle for MRBA's doomsday scenario where Luxottica wins and implodes!)
In October 2003 they bought NIGURA Germany from Rodenstock.
At his date the Board of Directors consists of:
Mr. Ma Bo Kee,
Mr. Ma Bo Fung
Mr. Ma Bo Lung
Mr. Ma Lit Kin, Cary
Mr. Mr. Ma Hon Kin, Dennis
Mr. Tong Ka Wai, Dicky
all as executive directors
Ms. Lee Sin Mei, Olivia
as non-executive director
Mr. Ng Tai Chiu, David
Mr Chan Wing Wah, Ivan
as independent non-executive directors
The company is registered in Bermuda with limited liability.
(Stock Code 389)
I would assume that there does not seem to be any strong German foothold in this company. To me this looks 'PURE" blue blooded chinese.
You are going to have "the real chinese competition" in the USA and also Europe
fletch said:
????????????
If Luxottica did not buy Lenscrafters and Lenscrafters was buying out Cole would we be better off?
Would Lenscrafters be cheaper of more expensive?
Would they have more stores or fewer?
Would they have 35% markest share >Or<?
The difference is that scenario is not a vertical integration scenario where a frame company owns retail outlets. That's their big advantage! When the world markets spend $ on Luxottica products, they subsidize the US commercial industry. If Luxottica was out of it, Lenscrafters would have to come up with that money all on their own, which they couldn't do, of course. They'd be poor slobs like the rest of us! (Well, sort of.)
If you go through the moulin web site they already have retail outlets in a number of countries.
Moulin is just as vertical as Lux the difference is that it as has been stated is state owned. The same far east market spends dollars on supporting Moulins retail market
Where is the difference?
Rep
There are many arguments on both sides of both Cole-LUX and Cole-Moulin outcomes. One argument that is totally false however is that Moulin is "state owned". 100% of the ownership is in the shares traded on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. The Ma family started the company around 40 years ago and owns around 40% of the stock. The balance is held by mutual funds worldwide and small investors.
Statements such as "the chinese state will control 35% of the US retail market" and "Moulin ...... is state owned" are false.
Moulin's history is impressive; it is a capitalist story not a state owned one. Ma Bo Kee and Leonardo Del Vecchio have more in common than they have differences. This will be an interesting battle in the classical market place economic sense. There is no government control twisting the outcome beyond the possible FTC issue in the US.
The above post makes the potentialities more clear:
Lux owns the top 2 market positions, or
Moulin and Lux share it.
It's easy to see which is better for the optical industry.
How would you guy's vote if you would be in the position to sell your stock of Cole shares to Moulin for $ 4.00 more per share when the moment comes to decide?????
Simply put, vertical companies say "Screw you, little guys. We have money. We will create or buy our own sales force to sell our product direct. We're cutting out the middle-man. We don't need no stinkin' retailers, we are going to take ALL the money."
Moulin or Luxottica have said that. It makes much more sense to want them compete against each other instead of watching Luxottica engulf the industry.
drk said...
So docs get less of a reimbursement!drk said:
By "status quo" I meant that business would go on as usual, obviously, unlike the Luxottica buy-out scenario:
1. Eye Med has the opportuntity to become truly competitive with VSP
Already done. If you havn't already you deserve to go under 10 years ago!2. Most private opticals drop Luxottica product, for self-preservation
Cartier at lenscrafters? Hmmmm...3. The higher-end commercial optical marketplace, for all intents and purposes, is controlled by a single company
YES!4. The commercial optical marketplace is now higher quality products and higher fashion, making it a tougher competitor
OOOH... Scared now.5. Luxottica's able to advertise for Sears, Lenscrafters, etc. in a single marketing campaign, if they choose
6. Private vs. commercial is more hotly divided than ever, and we have to work harder to stay relevant, unique
Independants aren't working at all right now to be unique. Hardly. How many marchon lines with the same looking shapes are in your office? Maybe you are an exception, but most of america isn't.
Not much different than now... and in the long run a lens company might be their death actually.I could go on. I see a bipolar industry if Lux wins: Commercial, with extreme vertical integration (apparently including a lens company, which would be a good thing for us), with much direct-to-consumer marketing, very competitive brands, styles, and qualities, EyeMed
Extreame vertical integration? What is that?
I just don't see that one...(And WalMart, the low-low-cost alternative, which will probably better their market position us during all this, somehow)
I already talked about how "unique" independants are. Flexibility yes. Expertise hardly. Service not a chance. Higher prices never. And VSP will contract with Lux/Cole.VERSUS
The private industry, with unique brands, greater flexibility in what to offer, better expertise and service, higher prices by necessity, VSP and other insurances, (you know the drill).
Both!Would you rather have a Sears/Walmart open right next door, or a Lenscrafters/Pearle?
Mr.BA: Your reputation as a maniac is well-deserved.
Independent opticals had better get the top-of-the line in everything, offer a unique experience, and charge big bucks to attract the VIP patient. I would advise holding onto insurance as a safety net, but not to the extent that they compromise the above mission.
You'd better be getting out there to help out your poor, uneducated, undercharging, independent accounts, or the Unspeakable Lab will be finito. We are in this together. (Get busy.)
PS, smart guy: Cartier IS IN LENSCRAFTERS in Columbus, OH! So there.
According to Shanbaum I am homicidal as well... but mellowingdrk said:
Mr.BA: Your reputation as a maniac is well-deserved.
Nah, my accounts are all high end. And I'm glad LC has Cartier... it's probably the most over priced junk in the optical business. I hope they all break!You'd better be getting out there to help out your poor, uneducated, undercharging, independent accounts, or the Unspeakable Lab will be finito. We are in this together. (Get busy.)
PS, smart guy: Cartier IS IN LENSCRAFTERS in Columbus, OH! So there.
The only good ones are the drill mounts, and to my knowledge there isn't a LC in northern CA that can drill!!!
I speak to independants, as do all independant labs, but the truth is, the docs just want to turn the dials and say "one or two, three or four". And "don't worry, we don't need to dialate you"... Most optometry students don't find out about the business part until after they graduate.
drk,
My lab is growing out of control. I have had to put several docs that I want to do work for on a waiting list. If you know any top notch lab people that want to work for the real deal, and not a VSP contract cattle mill, please email me.
.2% lab redo rate... all day long.
regards,
mrba
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