glass lenses & rimless frames
Hello All!
We had a customer request glass lenses in a semirimless groove frame today, and there was some disagreement amongst the opticians in our office as to whether this is ethical, legal, etc. Could someone shed some light on this? I need to present this topic to our office next week and I would like some solid reasons as to why this is not a good idea. Any thoughts on drill mount glass would be handy as well. Thanks!
Pam
:finger:
We still do Nylor style rimless in glass, but drill mounts????
I would doubt that most labs will go it because of the warrenty issue. I wouldn't do it because of the liability issue. I don't care how many duty to warn waivers your customer signs, the first one to have a serious accident with a glass three piece will sue you to death.
It's like my attorney said, when you go before the board and you are asked it you gave that patient the safest lens possible and you say NO, the only thing that will be more worthless than those duty to warn waivers will be you license!
"Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde"
We do grooved glass lenses with no problems. However we will not drill or notch any because of the liability issues.
In plastic I have way more lenses come back in nylor frames than I do in drilled (Silhouette) from chipping/breakage, from that, I would imagine the same would be true for glass.
Can anyone give me a good reason why glass in Nylor is "safer" than drilled (specifically Silhouette).
I know there are those die-hard glass patients out there, but personally, I don't even take a risk with Nylor Rimless. It is not that I can't, I have the equipment, I just choose not to forego the possibility of liability. Even though the likelyhood that a patient will actually have something go wrong is very slim, it is that 'slim' that bites you in the a.s.s! Look, you can do what you like, but with so many premire alternatives, how can you not get them to change?! Besides, send them to Lenscrafters and see if they will sell a rimless glass (nylor or drilled), they will turn him down.
Hope my thoughts are useful
:cheers:
Cowboy
In the US(or maybe in Cali?), drilling glass is illegal. I know of some labs that send it to Canada.
I also know many labs will groove it. Many more wont.
If there is a serious injury you will be sued.
Tell your patients "Because of liability issues we choose not to groove glass."
Thats really all you should need to say. If you are pressed on the issue I wouldn't fight it, just say so sorry Charlie.
No Beans Jean. If they are die hard about glass then they can get a full frame. Thats not asking much.
Ya it's too bad the way things have gone over the years. When I first started the owner I worked for would routinely order glass drill jobs without a worry. We had very little breakage and really
did not have to worry about the duty to warn. Boy have things changed since 1973. :drop:
Jedi,
Mostly for the better.
:cheers:
Cowboy
This is the way it was explained to me...
You run a glass lens, then you temper it, then you drill it, then you lose the tempering.
Good enough reason for me not to sell glass rimless, any style.
Bob V.
Has anyone seen these yet
Maui Jim Flexon Rimless
They are availible in MJ's Super Thin glass.
Comments?
Jedi,
Thanks for bringing this up! We called Maui Jim to ask them how they are doing this and they couldn't answer our questions. Any MJ reps out there that care to chime in?
My rep said that they pass all drop ball requirements, as well as the fact that the polarized layer contributes to impact resistance.
Now upon my inspection the mounting was a two hole mount (Silhouette) one hole was screwed and one hole had the frame "floating" in it. Both holes had a thick (silicon?) gasket between the frame and lenses. The frames are also Flexon.
So what gives? Are Maui Jims' lab guys better than anyone else?
I'm fairly certain Sunglass Hut doesn't carry liability insurance, like we have to for dispensing. Is the polarizing filter really the key?
or
Do we have way too many rules and laws to "protect" us at the sacrifice of common sense.
Help us Darwin.
I know for shure they had a LOT of problem producing theese frames!
Also the lenses do breake on my shelf!
What about the patient!?
BOBV
You can't alter a glass lenses after it has been tempered. Tempering must be done after grooving or drilling, any further edging or cutting on glass breaks the molecular structure of the lens and it needs to be detempered and retempered. I do not do drilling or grooving for reasons others have mentioned.
And I wouldn't touch one of those MJ with a 10 foot pole!
With glass representing only 2% of national opthalmic lens sales (can't remember the source of the statistic - but it is valid), I believe that it should be reserved for the necessities - whatever that would be, and not for drilling or grooving. There are far to many liabilities in our 'sue-happy' society. It only takes that one instant moment to change the rest of someone's visual life for the sake of fashion. As professionals, one would assume (but you know that saying), that all glass would be sold in a manner that would be condusive to nothing but absolute necessity and in its proper mounting(s).
That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it!!
:cheers:
Cowboy
10% of sales, 1/2PGX, 1/2 CLEAR and shrinking
So what are you folks doing about 'Duty to Warn'?
Where do we set our standards and why and for whom?
Maui Jim Glass Drill Mount
Hello Pammy!
I have contacted Maui Jim on this subject and their reps have offered no answer to this question. I was then transfered to the VP of marketing and had to leave a message so I will post the answer as soon as I hear back. You would think that they would have been prepared for these questions...
Ten to one that MJ makes that in polycarbonate only, and any reference to high index glass is a typo.
I work in a hospital in California(which won't buy poly for kids). I would be crucified for even havng a discussion about the possibility of drill-mounting glass. I've drilled and mounted enough glass since I was a kid and I don't miss it. Now: Know that it's a sure ticket to court. I don't care WHAT the customer signs.
Don't get me wrong: I've done a lot of it and, later in my career, saw some of the results. Why do you WANT to drill glass?
casey said:
So what are you folks doing about 'Duty to Warn'?
Where do we set our standards and why and for whom?
From what I have seen and heard you can have all the Duty to Warn papers on file and still get your rear end in a mess if some one decides to sue you. :drop:
Casey said:
I work in a hospital in California(which won't buy poly for kids).
So what are you folks doing about 'Duty to Warn'?
Where do we set our standards and why and for whom?
So I ask you Casey what do you do about Duty to Warn especially on kids? I will not and have had parents walk out because I refused to put anything but poly on a kid 18 or less. I
believe your only asking for trouble by not giving them the most
resistant lens on breakage in the market today. Just my opinion
but I m sticking to my guns and will not sell any but poly to a kid under 18.:drop:
California will only put CR-39 on kids. Should I order it 3.0?
I have no problem selling poly to my 'paying' customers when it comes to their kids. I believe other parents would do the same but, of course,the State forbids 'upgrades'.
I assume a previous history of fraud.
Incidentally: A parent may BUY a frame (for glazing down at the women's prison) and send that piece. Make sense out of that!! The parents won't go for MediCal garbage, for obvious reasons, but I can't get around the lenses.
I am often ashamed at the junk I have to buy to avoid losing TOO much on these folks. I treat them with respect, but these are often Americans: They know a turnip frame when they see one. I just 'palms up'
I believe we know each other through CJ in Meno Falls.
My uncle(an optician)wore a 7x28 in PGX in a Logo Sigma for years. But that was 20 years ago...And he was always chipping them. And yours?
Of course, he sold them but everyone in the family(esp. my dad, the OD) ragged him constantly about it.
I still have some glass fans but I rim their stuff. And in zyl, too, if I can. I farm it all out to share the liability...
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