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Thread: WM feeling the squeeze?

  1. #1
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    WM feeling the squeeze?

    I was doing some price-checking today, and discovered that WM now bundles AR coating on all their poly jobs !!!

    Only kids and safetys have a choice of poly without AR.

    If you aren't a kid or a safety and you don't want AR, they will make it without AR but you still have to pay the poly with AR price.

    All this according to the Vision Center associate I talked to on the phone.

    This got me to thinking...we, the competition, must be giving WM a run for their money! We are effectively competing against them to the point where they had to change something. They had to have a price increase. But they used the value-added strategy: raise the price on lenses but give something extra (AR) in return -- it looks like a value-added product. But it is in essence a price increase for WM, especially if some customers refuse the AR but still have to pay full price.

    A bonus for WM is that for most of us eyewear providers, AR is a premium price option. The new challenge for us is how to compete with WM on this.

    I do know that I haven't been impressed with any AR I've seen come out of WM.

  2. #2
    Master OptiBoarder BobV's Avatar
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    paw, just explain to your patients that your a/r coatings, i.e. Crizal, is not available in the chain stores. It is only available to independents and private practice. Also, tell them the benefits of a good a/r coating as well as explaining the 2 year, unlimited scratch guarantee.

    That's how I sell the upper end a/r's.

    Bob V.

  3. #3
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    I agree with BobV. Don't undercut the value of AR but sell premium products and make sure your customers know they are getting a good product. For those who don't want AR, let them know AR isn't for everyone and you aren't going to force it on them.
    If you aren't a kid or a safety and you don't want AR, they will make it without AR but you still have to pay the poly with AR price.
    I don't think customers who pay for something they don't get will stay customers for long. If you do a-la-carte pricing, make it known that you pay only for what you get.

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    fortwo eye jediron's Avatar
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    Big Smile

    Paw you could be right, but from what I have heard WM invested
    heavily into a/r coting. An not to just sell it which is the main purpose, but what I mean is they went and bought from (what I heard) 6 a/r coting machines ( if you can call them machines). I heard they paid 1 million each. So if that is true they are going to put a/r on everything to re-coup there investment. Just my two cents!:bbg:

  5. #5
    OptiBoard Professional UFRich's Avatar
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    I managed a WM when they moved in this direction. They put AR coaters in each of their labs and although I haven't seen them they are supposed to be Zeiss. They plan to move in the direction of 100% AR on every product they sell. Depending on the lab the order came from determined the quality of the work. The Colombus, OH lab seemed to put out the best work. All of this info is over 1 year old so take it with a grain of salt. Glad to be independant again.

    UFRICH:cheers:

  6. #6
    Bad address email on file Darris Chambless's Avatar
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    The Wal Mart philosophy.

    Hello to everyone,

    I agree with BobV also on the sale of ar/coatings because Bob is cool and knows what he's talking about. BUT Wal Mart isn't feeling any squeeze I'm afraid.

    All you have to do is think back about what things cost at Wal Mart when they moved into an area or what happens when new business moves into an established Wal Mart area. Wal Mart will "hook" people on lower pricing and "value added" products. Over time the price will gradually go up almost undetected by the consumer (especially after a year or more between Rx changes and purchases) Wal Mart does this with all their products even though the little smiley faced guy is flying around Wal Mart in the commercials cutting prices. For every one price Wal Mart cuts they increase another.

    Wal Mart Corp. is a master at steering the buying public in whatever direction they want them to go and I don't fault them for that in any way. But Wal Mart is not always the best buy or best purchase price. People have simply become conditioned to think that when they're at Wal Mart they're getting the same product, quality and lowest price when in reality they just THINK they are getting all the above. Don't get me wrong here either, when Wal Mart first moves into an area or when new business moves in that drops their bottom line you are more than likely getting the lowest price, but it won't stay that way. Wal Mart drops it's pricing in these instances to bring the buying public back into the store and to hurt competition and Wal Mart has the corporate dollars to run a store at a loss for whatever length of time necessary to accomplish both goals. IT'S BRILLIANT! :)

    The reality of this whole thing is the only way you can put the sqeeze on, or hurt Wal Mart is if they let you and if they let you they have something up their sleeve and it won't be to your advantage I can assure you.

    As far as Wal Mart opticals go; they run with such a low profit margin to begin with that even other discount stroes are at their mercy. We have a couple of shops here that are "in competition" with Wal Mart optical. If Wal Mart wanted to they could run a massive advertising campaign with rock bottom pirces for 6 months to a year and the local discount houses would be out of business by the end of the year. Wal Mart lets these shops exist more than they exist on their own. Since Wal Mart can afford to take a loss when needed to boost business over the long term and since these other local discount shops have to rely on sheer volume to make any money at all...well, think about that. ;)

    Anyway, Wal Mart feeling the squeeze? Nope. Wal Mart is just setting up for the next phase and this is the "valley" before the "peak." Be prepared.

    Take care,

    Darris C.

  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder BobV's Avatar
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    Darris my friend...

    You are making me blush...lol.

    I've seen too many a/r coatings (the cheap ones) that peel and scratch that I have just about given up on them. Only when Crizal or Teflon will not go on a particular lens will I use the cheaper ones.

    And if WalMart DID buy six Zeiss coating machines, look at the business you will get with the upper end coatings when YOUR patients come back with inferior product.

    NOW is the time to educate your staff about high end coatings and also start educating your patients. They will thank you.

    Bob V.

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    Do any of you realize that the optical products WalMart sells make up less than 1/2 of 1 percentage point on their bottom line. That's right 0.45%. Do you think they even care if they make a profit in optical? The optical department helps drive business into the super stores - the average person will buy something else there besides eyewear.

    Quit trying to compete with them on a $ basis. Compete by being better at quality and service than they are. It's not hard to be better than the stuff that comes out of their labs.

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    Magician,
    We don't try to compete with WM at all, but at our office, we have to be aware of what they are doing, because people in our area LOVE WM.

    Darris said it perfectly, "People have simply become conditioned to think that when they're at Wal Mart they're getting the same product, quality and lowest price when in reality they just THINK they are getting all the above."

    This is what we are up against in our area, and it's a constant patient education process. (And it gets really tiresome.)

    We are one small office trying to educate people that we are different and better than WM, against WM's constant advertising.

    I don't set foot in WM except when I'm checking out their optical, and I was real mad to find signs on every cart corral in the parking lot that said, "Visit WM Vision Center. Better eyecare, always." Or something like that.

    Better eyecare, give me a break. This is what we're up against, whether you realize it or not.

  10. #10
    Master OptiBoarder karen's Avatar
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    Re: Darris my friend...

    BobV said:

    And if WalMart DID buy six Zeiss coating machines, look at the business you will get with the upper end coatings when YOUR patients come back with inferior product.
    .
    It is Zeiss technology but they can't get Carat like the independents can. Unfortunately, it probably won't be inferior product unless the yahoos running the machine aren't doing it properly and they hired people away from existing Zeiss coating facilities so that is not likely. anyone know what their AR percentage is??
    Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.

    If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail

  11. #11
    OptiBoard Professional UFRich's Avatar
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    There goal is 60%. Some stores run in the 90's. The quailty of the product coming out was poor even though it is Zeiss. When I managed for them people always came back with crazing issues.

    UFRICH:cheers:

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    That's the WM way. They carry the brand, but WM dumbs down the brand to the WM price level.

  13. #13
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    Re: Darris my friend...

    BobV said: NOW is the time to educate your staff about high end coatings and also start educating your patients. They will thank you.
    Bob V.
    Agreed. You know it has taken some time to convince our patients that Crizal is far better than their old AR. Many who had it craze on their lenses swear they will never get it again. I think Walmart may set AR back and we will have to start all over with new patients who hate AR:hammer:

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder BobV's Avatar
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    send them my way...

    I have switched so many people from the inferior product to either crizal or teflon. Once they try the good stuff, they are amazed at the durability of the a/r.

    So, when WallyWorld decides to screw up the works, send 'em my way. I'll make believers of them.

    Bob V.

  15. #15
    If wal mart uses Zeiss then everyone who thinks their coatings are superior should think again. Zeiss SET basic does not peel and does not craze. It does have more cleaning scratches than a crizal. But if Walmart uses Zeiss coaters what is to stop them from doing Zeiss Carat? Move over crizal Alize. We'll do Carat for 1/2 the price of crizal and be hydrophobic and more scratch resistant!

    Actually one factor that most people are unaware of is irregardless of the brand name, the process has to be done right. I have had crizal fall apart before from a bad batch and Zeiss likewise.

    So far Walmart is a discounter, and the cost of using Zeiss machines is very expensive. Perhaps they will raise prices! One other thought, if they make ar on poly mandatory think of all of the non adapt to poly redos they wont have.

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    Master OptiBoarder Jeff Trail's Avatar
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    Gee, I was just at the Wal-Mart lab in Columbus and took a grand tour :) .. and YES they do have Zeiss coaters.. and it is MORE than six.. and yes they are ADDING 4 more coaters.. and NO they were not a "million" dollars a pc. , subtract about a $150,000 from that figure and you have the better guess in the price.
    I can tell you guys one thing the lab in Columbus is something to behold.. doing around 6,000 pr. a day and are ramping up towards 15,000 by the end of the year.. the lab is 105,000 square feet.. now that is a LARGE lab. It took me almost 45 minutes to just walk through it all and check it out.
    I think a lot of you guys might be worried about Wal-Mart but from what I got talking to the big wheels and taking a look around what they are wanting is large quick volume.. you know the run of the mill stuff including a frame.. they are going for bulk more so than the out of the average type jobs that involve "time". so I think there is going to be room for most everyone out here somewhere or another if you find your market place. You are not going to find a $600 high end frame in a Wal-Mart but you will find a ton of the SV people and emerging presbyopes, they are going for simple and high volume as thier niche in the market place and with the volume they are doing they do not care about the people strolling with a complicated RX or that little old guy who has had the same frame for the last forty years and wants to reuse it over and over..
    Myself I had two stores that were within a few miles of Wal-Marts and I tended to get over flow from them and when they opened my sales actually increased.. the Wal-Mart was pulling them in and as they went "shopping" I was right there to snag them up :)
    No matter what you think I went through that lab last week as a "old lab rat" that has been around the block a time or two I was impressed with the size, setup and equipment at the Columbus branch.

    Jeff"105,000 sq. ft. now that is a big lab"Trail

  17. #17
    Just An Optician jediron1's Avatar
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    Big Smile

    Jeff said:
    Gee, I was just at the Wal-Mart lab in Columbus and took a grand tour .. and YES they do have Zeiss coaters.. and it is MORE than six.. and yes they are ADDING 4 more coaters.. and NO they were not a "million" dollars a pc. , subtract about a $150,000 from that figure and you have the better guess in the price.

    It amazes me when people nit pick at certain things just so they can draw attention. (sub. $150,000 and you have a better guess)
    The person I got the figure from was talking too a Walmart employee and that 's the figure they gave. What you all fail to comprehend is WM is going out to capture an audience of eye glass wearers and hype to them the benefits of A/R coting which they will say they can deliver cheaper and quicker. Using there old logo of, we have just slashed the price again, they are in a position to capture a large segment of the population. Now in reality when they slash prices the real result is, the price was too high in the first place!
    :hammer:

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    Jeff,

    Your post was not very reassuring. Most people are "run of the mill." The remaining folks, the "out of the average type jobs that involve more time" and the "$600 high end frames" are not plentiful enough to sustain the independents.

  19. #19
    OptiBoard Professional UFRich's Avatar
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    The biggest factor in all of this is the employees WM hires. As a former manager in a licensed state even, I found that experience is not a concern with WM. This is not to say there are no good opticians working for WM, but most of their employees are pushing the sale and not educating the patient. These will be farmers, construction workers, etc. that are not taught proper care for their A/R lenses, and come back with problems. The first thing WM tells there employees is not to warranty replace these lenses, because the problems are due to misuse. Even though a patient makes enough noise to get them replaced, they are angry they had to go through alot of trouble. Train your employees well, and train your patients even more on the care of their lenses, customer service goes a long way.

    UFRICH:cheers:

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    Bad address email on file sjthielen's Avatar
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    You people forget that product can be purchased by anyone however service and expertize is offered by a few. If you think Zeiss AR is inferior I think you may be brainwashed by the Essilor machine. Service and expertize is the only way to compete against discount practices. That includes independents that are discount oriented not just chains.

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    Master OptiBoarder Jeff Trail's Avatar
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    paw,


    As I said I had two retail locations and a Wal-Mart came along after I was there.. and yes at first I did feel a little pinch in my sales in one store.. one was a high end and the other was more of the middle of the road price range... in the high end place it made no difference because most people who bought were looking for something in the higher end brand name stuff.. the mid range store was hurt a little at first.. as most places are when a new optical with a big marketing opens near you especially attached to a super store (the big drawl for the optical), but after a while I bounced back and people interested in a slower pace and wanting the more personal touch came around and I increased in sales due to that WM just by people dropping in doing compare shopping.
    Oh it is not all a bed of roses, lets face it some people are going to be hurt by a location opening close by and I accept that, when I was an owner I looked for my client base and that is what I always hit at and marketed for and it worked for me.. will a WM hurt or help everyone?.. I'm sure you will see it both ways. Just as if any other store opened near an existing optical like a chain store.. Myself I never let it bother me, being an ind. optical I knew I was not going to "compete" with WM as a whole.. my little store doing 15 to 20 sales a day was not on the same ground as a WM but I could change faster to meet local needs, I could market for what was needed at the time for MY local area and on and on.. so at times I thought I had the advantage over the WM optical in that regard.
    As I told most of my friends in the field over and over is you can not worry about what the other guy is doing you will drive yourself into an early grave with stress.. market your store to a place where you can make it and it may take longer but building slowly will mean a more dedicated core of customers.. and the best advertisment going is a very satisfied customer :)


    Jediron1,

    I was not trying to "draw attention" to myself..I was just posting the facts and answering a lot of people who posted from "I heard this" or "I think they are doing this".. I have no reason to want to "draw attention"..


    Jeff"to tired from the bashing to make a quote" Trail


    sjthielen

    I AGREE WITH YOU 100% .. most of you guys should look at it is a good thing getting AR out there in growing numbers, makes your sales increase as well when they come to you if they get AR from a previous place and liked it they will be buying it from you..I don't see how mass marketing an add on like AR is harmful to anyone in our field

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    Master OptiBoarder BobV's Avatar
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    Brainwashed ???

    I think not. I have personally used the standard Zeiss a/r and the Zeiss gold, and was not impressed. I have also had lenses coated by North American Coating Labs a few years ago and was not impressed.

    But, I love the way Crizal works and I also have used UTMC (which was okay) and Teflon. There is a difference.

    Bob V.

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