Practical Exam NYS licensure

[OdTech]

Hello opti members what advice or recoomendations will you give When taking the pratical for NYC in Albany?
:D

[jediron]

Just be yourself and try not to be too nervous. Also make sure
you can adjust a metal frame and try not to bust off the nose pads. I was a N.Y. examiner for two years and the biggest thing
we saw were people that were not well equipped in the knowledge of frame adjustments. We would ask them to put in
retro-panascopic tilt and why you would want to do this. In every
case most people would put in panascopic tilt and give the wrong
explanation. Next we would ask them to adjust the nose pads
on a a metal frame to fit one of the examiners. All we wanted to see is, were they proficient in the elementary principles of pad
adjustment and alignment of the frame. Lastly we ask for them
to bench align the frame. We did it in this order so the person
would have to think what they doing instead of coming in with a set strategy. Just some thoughts. Good luck!:bbg: :D

[Diane]

Only a guess...but if you use a lensometer...vertometer...lensometer, turn the thing on...without asking the examiner what's wrong with the instrument, and adjust the eyepiece.

Diane

[OdTech]

Hello and :cheers: to everyone who replied

One of my classmates took the pratical and got a progressive glass lens. How do i read the RX off of it with lensmeter. and also for review the trifocal lens how do i read from lensmeter the rx


greatly appreciate:bbg:

[jediron]

I m just wondering becuase you don't say. But have you not already gone through neutralization of lenses by use of a lensometer? A progressive is a little tricky. First try to hold the lens at an angle so you can pick up the markings that are on a progressive lens and mark those ( make sure you bring a marker so you can mark the circles on the lens. The is One temporal and one nasal). Once you have these move the lenses to about 4 mill.
above those marks and you should be able to read the distance
rx. The add should be marked on the temporal side of the markings, but make sure you check the power with the lensometer anyways, because I have found some (although few)
to be missed marked with wrong power. Hope this helps!:bbg:

[hcjilson]

are examiners placed one on one during the practical, or is there more than one evaluation done on the same candidate?

tx from hj

[jediron]

hcjilson when I was there for two years they would put three
examiners per table and each examiner would ask questions
pertaining to the subject matter they were given. Another words
some had them adjust glasses and answer questions while others had them demonstrate with lensometers and lenses. Depending on the person it would last anywhere from 10 - 15 min.
to as long as a half hour per subject.
:bbg: :D

[hcjilson]

How were grades determined?

hj

[jediron]

The grading was done on how well they did on the adjustment phase and also on the answer phase of the practicle exam. Then when the people left we would give them an overall grade either
passing or failing. If I remember correctly there was to grade but just a pass or fail.:bbg:

[hcjilson]

I don't need to know exactly, but do you recall the percentage that failed? and of that group, did anyone come back to say they were treated unfairly?

The reason I ask is because I have always been troubled by "subjective" exams, requiring an opinion of the examiners. I do not in any way question the integrity of you or any other examiners, its just that it seems an unfair way to test....as opposed to an objective test which is cut and dried with no judgement of the examiner involved.

That in itself would be a good subject for a thread-I didn't mean to get this one off on a sidetrack!
Thanks for the replies jediron.

[jediron]

Most we passed. But on the issue you raised about the judgement issue, how do you judge when you have just asked the person to show you retro-scopic tilt and watch them put in panascopic tilt? Or which way would you angle the nose pads to
lower or raise a metal frame? Just those types of questions to see
if they had a grasp of what they were doing.:bbg:

[hcjilson]

relatively easy to evaluate a competent optician's skills through observation. But with a subjective exam it is also possible to let bias creep into the evaluation. Again, I in no way impune the integrity of the examiners who do the best they can under the circumstances. The problem is how can bias be kept out of the equation?

Take your example of reto vs pantoscopic tilt.What if the candidate was hard of hearing, or dyslecsic?What if the examiner had a speech impediment?What if the examiner had personal knowledge that the candidate planned to open a shop across the street from the examiner?What if the examiner needed an employee? How can you avoid this in a subjective exam?

Subjective examinations have a tough time being defended in a court of law because bias cannot be taken out of the evaluation, hence a high pass rate in most cases. Again, that is not a knock, its just
the way it shakes out.

Thanks for the input jed, and for ODtech: just be yourself when taking the test and do things the way you've been taught. Look at the practical as just another day at work. You won't be given curve balls, so don't expect any, but be prepared for anything.One last tip........remember to identify a tinted lens.Thats the one thing I failed to ID on my practical in 1964! (cruxite a!) I put that in for we older opticians! :D :D

[Darris Chambless]

Could there be some bias of your own against practicals? ;)

I remember taking lab practicals, will be taking more lab practicals in the not too distant future, the wife took lab praticals and practical exams for nursing and on and on. But as far as the exams having an incroachement of bias...you bet there is! Is that a bad thing? Not in the least. I won't explain unless you ask but think about this, when you got out into the real world was it all rosey? Peaches and cream? Did you have to deal with bias' and was it a part of everyday life? Of course it wasn't rosey or peaches and cream and of course you had to deal with bias and still do I'm sure. It's part of learning to deal with reality which is also a part of a practical exam; dare I say the most important part when dealing with the public.

Snifffffff. Ah, the smell of practical application! Don't you love it? :)

Darris "I'm not a cynic, but I play one on TV" C.

[hcjilson]

You are looking at this from the point of view of the candidate. Look at it from the point of view of the examiner.

Bias is definitely not a good thing when it comes to determining whether or not one can practice, and is reasonably dangerous from the legal point of view.

I cannot PROVE my my lack of bias in my evaluation. I cannot even PROVE the excercise was done correctly or incorrectly because everything hinges on my opinion.This is the problem with subjective tests. They are not defenseable, and unless the certifying authority indemnifies the examiner, the examiner is liable in case of suit. When an examination determines ones right to practice, and is failed, the damages could be substantial.All the candidate really has to do is to allege bias, the examiner then has to PROVE there was none. I still can't believe that state's attorney generals are allowing it.

(gospel according to James Anliot former counsel for MA AG's office.)

[Darris Chambless]

Harry,

I don't know if you've noticed but lately even objective testing is up for court room time. All one needs to do is say that an objective test is bias toward whatever (the racial thing seems to come up quite often) and the test goes under scrutiny and can be judge to be descriminatory at which point the test gets thrown out. Objective or subjective either are candidates for someone screaming foul I'm afraid, but I will concede it can be a bigger issue in subjective testing.

If a specific set of rules are set for the grading of the practical one could argue that it's not subjective at. As jedi said we know what pantoscopic and retroscopic tilt is. Pretty hard to get that screwed up unless of course one isn't paying attention when the instructions are given or questions asked at which point one should get that portion counted off imo.

I can see it from both perspectives but will contend that subjective testing (biases or not) is a better determiner of how one will do out in the work place and how one will handle ones self in stressful situations when dealing with strangers (general public) watching you intently.

But again as to legality...you could probably have suit filed against you for being named Harry if someone could find a valid enough reason and a lawyer to take the case. Heck, half of the things I had to do in elemetary, junior and highschool are no longer done because too many people complained about it being too hard or unfair to the kids. Funny thing, I and the majority of people I went through school with did just fine and graduated and none the worse for the wear. Oh well.

Take care Mr. Harry.

Darris C.

[jediron]

WOW cruxite a, now that brings back some memories, not all good neither. How about the Ultex k or the 9mm ribbon segment.
The good old days when glass reined supreme and nose bleeds
were common. Ha HA
:hammer: