Lux and the Independent

[Chris Ryser]

Johns said:


I carry cheapos from China and Korea, as well as high-end from Germany, Malta, Italy, and France. The only difference is, I didn't pay extra to have a plastic sticker put on the demo lens that says Marchon(china)/Lamy(china)/Lux-RayBan Kids (china)/ Safilo(china)/Benetton(china)/Eddie Bauer(china)/Nicole Smith(china).
You can give it to the distributors, or you can put it in the bank.

It is a fact that ALL frame manufacturers including your favorite are barely manufacturing frames anymore and that 90% of the frames you are selling with brand names stamped on them are actually "cheapos from China and Korea" as mentioned in above quote. you just pay more and charge more

[impact500]

<<It is a fact that ALL frame manufacturers including your favorite are barely manufacturing frames anymore and that 90% of the frames you are selling with brand names stamped on them are actually "cheapos from China and Korea">>

Chris, two suggestions:

1. Take your next vacation in Italy. After the obligatory and delightful few days in Venice, visit the Cadore and Longarone area.

There is an old school market research method - count cars in parking lots. In this case, include motor bikes. The drivers are making something inside those buildings.

2. There are two readily available recourses when you suspect mis-marking. Tell US Customs via 1-800-BE ALERT. They hawk shipments from companies that have complaints filed.

Also the Vision Council of America has an ongoing effort of self policing. I believe the contact is csneed@visionsite.org

Also VCA has a detailed legal brief of the rules:

http://www.visionsite.org/standards/...ng%20Rules.PDF

Chris, your statement quoted above is false.

[Johns]

Impact 500:

No trench-coat and spyglasses needed here. There's nothing sinister about this except that everyone is so excited that there is a brand name on the lens, that they don't care that it says "china" on the temple.

The frame isn't made OF China, it's made IN China. Luxottica, Marchon, and the others will tell you what's made where; it's not a secret.

I would also disagree with Mr. Reyser. I think that 90% is too LOW of a percentage. (Not of manufacturers, of BRAND NAMES).

[Chris Ryser]

impact500 said:

Chris, two suggestions:

1. Take your next vacation in Italy. After the obligatory and delightful few days in Venice, visit the Cadore and Longarone area.

There is an old school market research method - count cars in parking lots. In this case, include motor bikes. The drivers are making something inside those buildings

I have been called being wrong many times before.

Thank you for the suggestion, I have been there a few times in my life, as well on vacation, as on business.

impact500 said:

Chris, two suggestions:

2. There are two readily available recourses when you suspect mis-marking. Tell US Customs via 1-800-BE ALERT. They hawk shipments from companies that have complaints filed

As a manufacturer, exporter and importer of products that fall under FDA jurisdiction in the USA, I have some experience in this matter. Optical prescription frames, as well as optical prescription lenses are so called devices, as well as anything that is included in those devices.

At the point of entry, products falling under FDA jurisdiction are being checked not only by customs but also by the FDA.

If properly marked and registered with the authorities there is NO problem to import these items as they are legally brought into the country.

AND IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHERE THEY WERE PRODUCED

impact500 said:
Chris, two suggestions:
Also the Vision Council of America has an ongoing effort of self policing. I believe the contact is csneed@visionsite.org

Also VCA has a detailed legal brief of the rules:

http://www.visionsite.org/standards/...ng%20Rules.PDF

The Vision Council of America has no legal jusrisdiction whatsover. It is a society of manufacturers and suppliers that was formed to take over the large exhibitions (Vision Expo) from private interest's years ago. The goal is to use the proceeds (profits) for educational purposes towards the public.

Actually the companies of which we are talking about are members in good standing with the VICA and also some of the [Blargest contributors of proceeds at the optical shows.[/B]

impact500 said:

Chris, your statement quoted above is false.

Let the Optiboard members make up their own mind if they think that a "high end frame", and I am not disputing any quality, made by cheap labour in the far east should sell for the same high price as if it would have been made in the Italian buildings with the motorcycles parked in front.

[impact500]

<<IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHERE THEY WERE PRODUCED>>

As long as they are marked with the honest country of origin you are correct. If they are mis-marked, it is of concern to US Customs. The exception being any "Made in the USA" claims which fall under FTC regs.

<<The Vision Council of America has no legal jusrisdiction whatsover>>

Correct. They do have (a) peer pressure that has been used to self-police country of origin mis-marking. And (b) they have standing with US Customs to help police frame markings. US Customs frequently relies on trade groups to sort out rules for specific products.

This cooperative process started with the OMA - Optical Manufacturers Association back in the gold content days and then when Made in Italy/France/Germany marks from Asia first became a problem. With OMA merged into VCA, the self-policing continues there. The lawyer who prepared the legal draft on the VCA web site has been active with these issues for several decades and has been effective in obtaining compliance when abuse is reported.

<<90% of the frames you are selling with brand names stamped on them are actually "cheapos from China and Korea>>

This statement is false. Since you have been there, what are all those folks doing inside those factories in the Dolomites?

There are a lot of frames marked as being made in Italy. Either they are out of compliance or your statement is false. If the former, please (a) cite on Optiboard the specific frame models and companies that you believe are mis-marked, (b) file a compliant with US Customs and (c) notify VCA.

[jediron]

impact500 said That Chris said:

<<90% of the frames you are selling with brand names stamped on them are actually "cheapos from China and Korea>>

impact500said:
This statement is false. Since you have been there, what are all those folks doing inside those factories in the Dolomites?

You must understand that most of the things used on this board
are usually innuendo without much basics in fact. It is mostly peoples opinions or made up facts. And that is all right if you know from the beginning that is what is going to happen. The so called facts that have been flying on this thread are so outrageous it's ridiculous. 90% of all frames where are your facts?
Come on Chris you know better than that! If that is true what are
all those factories doing in Italy,putting out frames and then stamping them made in China! Come On now!:drop: :hammer:

[Chris Ryser]

jediron said:
impact500 said That Chris said: ..........................................

Come on Chris you know better than that! If that is true what are all those factories doing in Italy,putting out frames and then stamping them made in China! Come On now!

I think that you guy's should reconsider your statements beause you might have misunderstood my remarks.

A frame when imported has to be properly marked as made in such and such country. The content of origin is what counts for a marking "Made in ................"

In order to be able to so, a certain amount of material has to originate in that country, there is also a requirement of a certain amount of labour involved in order to produce a certificat of origin.

Materials can be of European origin and so can be the machinery, which it probably is. Frames can be partly finished elsewhere and shipped to Europe for the final touch and then qualify for a European country of origin.

When we look at the big name frame factories left in Europe, do you really think that they do have the capacity and volume to produce the huge amount of frames that they throw on the world wide market?? You must be dreaming in colours.

impact500,
Thanks for the clarification on OMA and VICA. Having been a former member of OMA for many years I am fully aware of what it is and represents.

[impact500]

Chris: <<90% of the frames you are selling with brand names stamped on them are actually "cheapos from China and Korea>>

Chris: <<you might have misunderstood my remarks>>

Do you believe that 90% of frames sold with brand names are made in China and Korea or do you not?

Chris: <<When we look at the big name frame factories left in Europe, do you really think that they do have the capacity and volume to produce the huge amount of frames that they throw on the world wide market??>>

There is dramatically less frame capacity in France and Germany today than years past. There is still significant capacity in Italy, however.

Chris, the implication of your posts is that major European firms are mis-marking country of origin. You should cite examples and file complaints. US Customs takes mis-marking very seriously. They make life difficult for firms they believe are cheating.

[Chris Ryser]

impact500 said: .

US Customs takes mis-marking very seriously. They make life difficult for firms they believe are cheating.

It looks that I am talking to or writing on a wall. I have explained how it could or can be done legally without any cheating. How much it is done or not done is not my problem.

I enjoy a good argument but we seem to ride a one track rail at this stage and in my humble opinion we are totally of the subject of this thread.

Besides I would not make any statements as you suggest I should, on a public board as the Optiboard.

Therefore I propose to table the subject and enjoy my weekend and hope you will too.

[For-Life]

What happens is during frame production each assembly gets a certain amount of points. What ever country does the processing that gets the most points get the made in stamp. Therefore, a lot of the processing can be done in China; however, because Italy did the part with the most points, it is stamped with made in Italy.

[Mikef]

Presently, all the steps of the manufacturing and distribution process are managed in-house: engineering and design, manufacture of prototypes, product engineering, manufacture of molds and frame parts, manufacture of glass lenses for sunglasses, worldwide distribution.

Efficient Manufacturing System

Luxottica operates through six manufacturing facilities, all of which have been awarded the ISO 9001 certificate, are highly automated, and are among the most efficient ones in the eyewear industry.

The company employs state-of-the-art technology. In order to increase both productivity and manufacturing quality, each plant specializes in a specific manufacturing technology.
In particular, plastic frames are manufactured in the plants located in Sedico, Pederobba and Turin, while metal frames are manufactured in the plants located in Agordo and Rovereto. The small metal parts come from the plant located in Cencenighe.

Every single eyeglass frame undergoes a series of stringent checks that have caused the return rate for defective goods to fall below 1%.

Based on flexible systems and plans, the manufacturing process can be quickly adapted to meet any market changes and can promptly fulfill orders of any size by employing innovative technologies.

The use of an advanced stock control system allows the company to monitor stock levels efficiently.

[Johns]

Do you consider, Marchon, Lamy, Charmant and other frame companies to be brand names ? I don't.

The brand names I was referring to were the CONSUMER brand names such as Nike, Eddie Bauer, and all the others. They never pretend to be manufactured anywhere but CHINA. Did they ? The NIKE frames with suggested retail prices of $250+ are made in China, and they (Ok, now you might need a magnifying glass) are clearly marked "Frame China" on the temple. What does it matter if it's a rickshaw or a motorcycle parked outside of the plant ? It's made using low cost labor, but sold to us at a high priced premium. I'm not even saying that it's wrong, I just can't believe how much optical owners are willing to shell out for high priced product for inventory.

I don't doubt that the designer frames LUX marks "Italy" are made in Italy, but I also know that although LUX is the biggest, against all the other " designer " label distibutors that it is only a fraction of that market. I'll put my paycheck (both dollars) on a bet that the majority of designer labels are made in China. You don't even have to restrict it to the ophthalmic trade...

[Chris Ryser]

Johns said:
.......................................marked "Frame China" on the temple. What does it matter if it's a rickshaw or a motorcycle parked outside of the plant ? It's made using low cost labor, but sold to us at a high priced premium. I'm not even saying that it's wrong,........................................ I just can't believe how much optical owners are willing to shell out for high priced product for inventory.

Very well said Johns,
A brand name frame carries the name of the manufacturer. and a designer name carries the name of the designer, but is made and sold by a manufacturer of whatever name.

A manufacturer makes a deal with the registered owner of a designer name and then has to pay a license fee per frame sold, or per special agreement.

These particular designer frames have never been designed by the so called "designer" who can be any type of commercial venture owning a designer name.

Years ago, at some point during 20 years of representing a major European frame manufacturer we sold the "Emanuel Ungaro" frame line in Canada at a certain price, while the same "Emanuel Ungaro" models were sold in the USA for half the price under the manufacturers name.

In 1965 to 1971 The Wilhelm Anger Co (OPTYL) used huge grants by the Candian Government and and loans by the Royal Bank of Canada to set up a injection plant in Moncton NB where they produced injected fronts and temples for the complete "Christian Dior" frame line by the hundreds of thousands. The parts were then sent to Austria and Germany OPTYL plants for finishing and assembly and then sold worldwide as "Christian Dior" made in Germany and or Austria.
(When imported back into Canada, the frames were assessed with custom duties as they where marked with another country of origin)

,

Johns said:
I don't doubt that the designer frames LUX marks "Italy" are made in Italy, but I also know that although LUX is the biggest, against all the other " designer " label distibutors that it is only a fraction of that market. I'll put my paycheck (both dollars) on a bet that the majority of designer labels are made in China. You don't even have to restrict it to the ophthalmic trade...

Again well said Johns,

At the end it still boils down to the successful frame manufacturer who has outsmarted everybody else with their strategy, made and is making huge amounts of cash over the break even point.

This cash is used to buy up as much of the retail end to further extend their plans of expansion and advancing the sale of their products. To me this sounds and looks like a twin brother or sister of the Wal Mart family.

This is why I still can not understand that the reaction by Optiboard members has been at a 50 - 50 for or against in above poll. I always thought that one should have a little more pride in our future and at least put up a fight for the individual freedom of the independent optical profession.

[jediron]

Chris I stand by my remarks. You never made youself clear until the final two posts, then to go on that rediculous escapade about
that it's where the materials come from, what is that? You could say the same about American steel importing raw materials from
Botswana (this is used as an illustration not to be construed as true) or what ever, you mean to tell us your going to say they were made in Botswana? Come on Chris I thought you knew better. It's not where you get the raw materials it's what you do with them when you get them. The companies in Germany and so forth don't need China or Korean raw materials they use thier own and make a pretty darn good product. I can't say the same
for those China and Korean imports that most of you big name companies use and then mark them up to rediculous levels. So you saying Rodenstock gets there stuff from the same sources,
unbelieveable. Chris I thought you knew better!:drop: :hammer: :finger:

[Mikef]

Chris

What lines of frames do you sell best over the past few years in your store?

[Jim Stone]

You mean there are still some independents? DUCK!!

[Chris Ryser]

Mikef said:
Chris

What lines of frames do you sell best over the past few years in your store?

Mikef
Thanks to all good spririts I am out of the frame business. In case you want to know what and where a Optboard member is, go on their profile and look it up, some of them have websites you can also check out.

Some Optiboard members just mark N/A everywhere on the whole profile, and those are usually the ones that scream the loudest.

[jediron]

Chris said:
Some Optiboard members just mark N/A everywhere on the whole profile, and those are usually the ones that scream the loudest.

And why do you want to know my profile? Just suffice it to say I have been an optician lic. in N.Y. state since 1973, when the N.Y. State lic. meant something. Any other particulars are none of your business!
:finger: :shiner:

[jediron]

In another vein. How many people do you think Lux will let go from Cole once they have taken full control? I see at least or up to
a 100!
:bbg: :D

[ikon44]

Fletch has a good point,

Lux will have Prada, Donna Karen and DKNY among their lines, whether we like it or not , they are all high profile names, with top end, quality connotations,our clients know these names and to a certain extent buy into the image these designer companies portray with their expensive advertising.

There is a premier league, and a secondary league when it comes to designer names, unfortunately a lot of the major names are tied up with multiples.

therefore if you choose not to stock these names,you may be giving out the wrong sort of image about your practice.

As an independant, i stock a wide mixture of products, the major names as well as some lesser names and some quirky unusual frames for those looking for somthing different, this product range allied with our dispensing expertise
is what seperates us from the multiples.

[Chris Ryser]

........................therefore if you choose not to stock these names,you may be giving out the wrong sort of image about your practice.

...........therefore you should and have to stock the products of the manufacturer who owns and finances your direct competition next door. Good luck!

:hammer:

[Chris Ryser]

Luxottica Shareholders have approved the payment of a cash dividend for fiscal year 2003 of € 0.21 per ordinary share



:cheers:

[drk]

Admit it! You love her, still, even though she runs around on you. Sure, she's flashy, good looking, but she's only using you. You know it, but you still can't break away...

Let me be a matchmaker. I know another Italian lady who is much more loyal, and she's just as good looking. She wears Ralph Lauren, Gucci, Kate Spade, Nine West, Dior, Armani..always making a purchase of the next big name...

[Joann Raytar]

drk, the above post is a sign you have been doing this way too long. ;)

[drk]

:hammer: