Keep him forever banned from any Association in Baseball including Hall of Fame Eligibility?
Allow Hall of Fame Eligibility Only
Allow Him to Work IN ML Baseball Only
Allow both his return to Major League Baseball and Hall of Fame Eligibility
I say his lack of true remorse alone warrants keeping the bum away forever. I further found that his little book exerps with his proclimations of I did what I did, okay get over it attitude were particularly poor timed to coincide with this years Hall of Fame announcements and the death of Tug McGraw.
Last edited by LaurieC; 01-08-2004 at 04:44 PM.
a talented bum but a bum by any other name still stinks.
I have been associated with the "game" of baseball since I can remember. I can tell you it was a long time before I was able to play the game that I learned the "rule". I played in playground leagues long before "little" league was invented. There was one rule we all knew, even as little kids. I've known it so long I can't remember how I knew it........but I knew it.......as did every ball player who reads these words.
THERE IS NO BETTING IN BASEBALL ........end of statement........ end of argument! If they've never made an exception for " Shoeless Joe Jackson" who, from all accounts that I have read, was probably NOT guilty,.... they should never make an exception for one who has FINALLY admitted his quilt.
I am older than Pete Rose so I guarentee you that he knew what the rules were. He lied to Giamatti and later to Fay Vincent. Are we to accept his word as truth now? I think not! He should be banned from even talking about it. No one should buy his book to give him any legitamacy- these are just the thoughts of a kid who used to play ball.
hj
When one breaks the rules one should be held accountable. It would appear that Pete Rose does not feel he should be held accountable for his actions and to me that is wrong, but is a sign of the times, unfortunately. Keep him out of it all I say.
Take care,
Darris C.
Judge landis in 1920 set the president for not betting on baseball
by players and managers alike. It is:
"After the 1920 season, fearing baseball might not survive the gambling scandal, club owners decided to clean up their act. The three-man national commission, headed by Ban Johnson, was replaced by a single, independent commissioner with dictatorial power over baseball. Federal Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis was appointed commissioner, and he acted quickly to restore the public's faith in baseball. Immediately after they were acquitted of any criminal charges, Landis banned all eight players from the game. Landis said, "regardless of the verdict of the juries, no player who throws a ball game, no player who undertakes or promises to throw a ball game, no player who sits in confidence with a bunch of crooked players and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball." True to his word, Landis never allowed any of the eight White Sox to play professional ball again."
This can be found at: http://www.chicagohs.org/history/blacksox.html
:bbg: :D
A note to my previous post is, Pete I believe still has a problem.
Because he has said he still likes to go to the track. Now if you trying to stop drinking you don't go to bar. Same thing with Pete. If your a gambler you don't go visit race tracks or anything else that would make you fall again.
:hammer:
Nooooooo. What chutzpah this guy has. I met him and his wife--want to say her name was Caroline?---years ago. Two more loutish characters you would be hard pressed to find. Let's see what these sportswriters are made of.
Hey, as a guy who grew up in Philly, I appreciated what he did for the Phillies......but.......
As a sports coach, how can I teach proper sportsmanship and ethics as well as instill loved of the game when you have great players who trash the game for their own ends.
Pete Rose deserve NOT to be inducted into the Hall of Fame,PERIOD!
"Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde"
Well, I suppose I will be alone in defending my childhood sports idol... I spent many nights sitting up watching or listening to Philadelphia Phillies games. I used to play first base and would imitate Rose's little ball spike when the third out was recorded at first base. I still remember huddling around the small television in my dorm room when he sent hit number 4,192- a single- into the outfield (the count was 1-2, btw).
Surprise, Pete Rose is a flawed person- just like Ty Cobb and a whole SLEW of players enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Good grief, Darryl Strawberry is still in the game- and he's an habitual drug offender!
No, you are not supposed to bet on baseball. I'm not even going to make any argument about that... However, Pete Rose was undeniably one of the greatest 10 players to ever take the diamond- without question.
Now, everyone can use Pete Rose to feel better about themselves- they can decry his gambling and argue that "society" is a better place because of the example that is being made over him. Fine- then in the "interest of society" I want to see the game totally cleaned up. I want to see steroid usage truly investigated and everyone shooting up thrown out. I want all the members of the Hall investigated, and- if there is impropriety found- rip out their bronze likenesses. I want to see a Sammy Sosa receive more than a tiny suspension when he is caught red-handed cheating at the game. After all, wasn't he caught illegally enhancing the performance of his play? Explain how that impacts the sanctity of baseball any less than a former player who bets on the game?
Get over it folks- Pete is what he always was... brash, impetuous, and in-your-face. Oh, and by the way, keeping him out of the Hall of Fame does nothing except trivialize the game, in my opinion. The Hall is there to immortalize the best men who have ever played baseball- of whom, Pete Rose is among the elite. Limit the Hall to 100 players, and he's still in with no room for discussion.
You go- Charlie Hustle. Make a mint on your book and give 'em the bird as you walk into history. Leave the Hall to the hypocrites, enjoy your golden years, and tell anyone who gives you grief to stick a sock in it.
I agree wholeheartedly with Pete. Clean it all up...all sports teams, owners, officials, docs. Then begin to reward those who play by all the rules.
and it took a lot of time to reinstate as our national pastime.The ONLY thing that made that possible was establishing the "NO BETTING" rule, with a penalty severe enough to almost make it self policing.
Its a rule EVERYONE who plays, has played, or will play baseball, learns from the beginning. The penaly for the rule's breach is as well known as the rule itself.
My position has absolutely nothing to do with making myself feel better about myself. Charlie Hustle broke the rule, Charley Hustle pays the price. Regardless of the fact he thought he wouldn't be caught, he knew what the price was if he was caught........and should shut the hell up and pay it. His great talent- his achievments in the record books and his place in the history of the game has been wasted.......not by someone else, but by him.
I feel badly for fans like Pete .They still think he's a hero......even after he spit in their faces. Along with every other baseball fan I cheered each of his accomplishments as they came along and I was absolutely shocked when he was charged, and taken aback when the charges proved to be true. In my opinion he is not anywhere near the 10 best ballplayers in history.............he comes just after the major leaguer with the least talent who never bet on the game.
Steroid use has little to do with this thread but since it was brought up, a word about steroid use: At least those offenders are trying to WIN . With a game tainted by gambling, you never can be quite as sure about that, and thats the reason betting in and on baseball is not allowed......by anyone.....under any circumstances. Thats a period after circumstances.
the view from here this morning
Pete Rose is not my hero. As a kid, I admired his baseball prowess and larger-than-life image. Fact is, he is one of the best players who ever stepped on the field. The Hall of Fame is supposed to contain the game's greats- Pete Rose is one of them.
In my opinion he is not anywhere near the 10 best ballplayers in history.............he comes just after the major leaguer with the least talent who never bet on the game.
Oh Harry, we need to have a few beers together some time! It would definitely be fun. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but puh-leeeeeze! All this stuff about keeping the game clean and stuff is really quaint, but baseball is pretty much a joke these days- betting or not.
This is coming from a FAN of the game who survived and forgave the first strike. However, since the second strike I am a half-hearted fan who hopes the Reds will be there at the end of the year, and may watch the Series- but otherwise, the game is a joke.
If you are to the point where you can honestly say players pumped up on steroids are "at least trying to win," but someone who bets is "right after the lowest player not to bet," well- that's sad. Pete Rose was a breed of player that doesn't exist today. Play to win, play hard, accept defeat only grudgingly. One of the problems with the game today is the lack of a Pete Rose type player. Players today are more concerned about their contract than whether they win or lose.
Pete Rose is nobody's role model. He shouldn't coach again. He is in the Hall of Fame (at least a lot of his stuff is), so if the petty commissioner wants to forbid folks from voting him in- well, whatever. As long as someone like Darryl Strawberry is still involved in the game, don't even talk to me about "the legitimacy of the game."
would let him in. The feedback I'm hearing is that his book did him more harm than good.He still needs votes to get in the hall and my quess is that he will be a long time dead before that happens. I could be wrong but his latest book is not making him any friends.
In fairness, I retract my statement about where he should be placed in the pecking order of great players. He did set the records which still stand and obviously those things have been, and will continue to be recognized as extrordinary accomplishments. I just got a little hot under the collar with his becoming a cry baby in his "prison without bars". Well at least he now has had the dubious honor of having been in both kinds".
Baseball lost me too after the second strike. It must be the crybaby thing. Funny, that doesn't happen in the sports of golf or football.
best from harry
Baseball lost me too after the second strike. It must be the crybaby thing. Funny, that doesn't happen in the sports of golf or football.
You know, I can tell you exactly when I lost my rabid love of baseball. It was the year after the second strike, and my dad had managed to get some awesome tickets through his work right behind home plate in Veteran's Stadium (the Phillies old haunt).
Anyway, I was watching the players plod onto the field between innings and I thought "Hold it, every one of these guys makes more money in a year than I'll see in a year- to play a game- and its still not enough for them... they don't enjoy the game!"
For some reason, that was it. I didn't sit up at night listening to ball games on the radio anymore. I didn't get wrapped up in the season's progress. Baseball had lost its wonder, and it never came back. On occasion, a player like Cal Ripken will come along and tug at an old feeling for the game, but by and large, players like Griffey and ARod remind me that these guys are all just a bunch of overpaid, spoiled bums who forgot what baseball is all about.
I have a hard time with the argument that because other people have behaved badly, that bad behavior should have no consequences. But beyond that, Rose is STILL BETTING on sports, and he states he wants to manage or somehow be involved in the game again. Huh????? He has had serious money problems in the past and I wouldn't doubt still does. I have always doubted his claim that he only bet on his club to win--after all, as a manager he is supposed to win--the way to orchestrate a winning bet is to throw the game. Let's not forget that he was convicted--and served time--for tax evasion right after he lost his job--his defense claimed he was broke. Let's see, I'm the manager of a baseball team, I'm a big gambler, I'm in serious financial trouble--hmmmmm. And, his whole attitude is one of the injured party (from the interviews I have seen).
I don't think you can compare Rose's missteps with Strawberry's--Strawberry may be a miscreant, but his personal conduct doesn't undermine the integrity of the game in the same way Rose's does.
It's a shame you have lost your love of the game, thought understandable. I still don't think you can beat a balmy summer night with a hotdog and a beer and a good game. It's also IMO the last professional sports event where you can take your children without exposing them to drunks and hooligans (maybe pro basketball, we never go to those games). When I lived in Florida I used to take in some spring training games with my kids, talk about fun!!!
Actually, college baseball is extremely entertaining! I lived in Tallahassee for five years and enjoyed watching the FSU Seminoles play ball each year (FSU has one of the top baseball programs in the country each year).
You are right about the atmosphere of a ballgame. Give me a bag of peanuts, cotton candy (um, for my son, of course), and some organ music any day!
As for Rose's behaivor, I am usually quite black-and-white with my ethics and standards. Given that the game is a joke, however- it seems extremely hypocritical to single out Pete Rose to bear the condemnation for a sport that has very little honor left anymore. The ethical conduct of a baseball player never seems to have kept anyone out of the Hall before, it just amazes me that Rose's actions have given rise to such sanctions.
As for Strawberry, no- I still can't accept the argument that his behaivor has had less of an impact on the game. He has been caught doing drugs how many times now? Sent to involuntary rehab- escaped from the same... No, this is a guy who has flunked out on chances 1,2,3,4, and five. THAT's the kind of guy you toss once and forever from the game- not one of the game's premiere players who has a problem with addiction to gambling.
He was caught gambling- fine, remove him from control of a baseball team. Keeping him out of the Hall, however, is simply petty and serves absolutely no purpose (other than to make him a martyr, which it has done...).
One more time......For Players, Managers, Ownership, Employees of professional baseball teams. There is NO GAMBLING ON BASEBALL ALLOWED...........anywhere, anytime by anyone.......UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES..............PERIOD.
This rule applies to everyone .....not just Pete Rose. He was not being singled out.
Before his book was written and most of us thought he had straightened out, I would have favored his hall eligibility should the commisioner have thought it appropriate. I would be dead set against it now. He shot himself in the foot again.
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
Just one small note... actually, you can gamble on baseball without being banned for life. The penalty for gambling on baseball is a one year suspension.
Gambling on a game in which you had a "duty to perform" is where the lifetime ban comes in.
As a manager, Rose had a duty to perform in the game. If he bet on his team (and he indicates he did), then the rule applies to him.
He still belongs in the Hall of Fame, in my opinion, because he was undeniably one of the greatest players ever- and the Hall is supposed to be a collection of the best of the best.
They haven't made an exception for Shoeless Joe Jackson, what reason would you give for Pete Rose. Lest we forget, Shoeless Joe was a GREAT ballplayer too, and didn't bet. His offense was that he concealed knowledge of the Black Sox fix.Playing ability is not mentioned in the rules of eligibility, so playing ability aside, what reason is there to elect Pete Rose?
The rules of eligibility can be found here:
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ho...rees/rules.htm
They do have Jackson's shoes and glove on display at the Hall, and I'm sure they must have some Rose memorabilia too.
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
Playing ability is not mentioned in the rules of eligibility...
Precisely my point, Harry... the Hall of Fame is, well, I suppose you'll come up with some honorable sounding description- which is fine. However, its not a collection of the best players the game has produced. In my opinion, that's what it should be.
Its like having a sales convention and honoring the salespeople that everyone likes the best- irregardless of whether they've actually sold much product or not. There's something to be said for nobility and all that good stuff. I guess I'm just more interested in who could actually play the game.
Like I said, I'm not really a fan of baseball anymore (which is a shame, because as a kid I lived and breathed baseball- been to Cooperstown, the whole ball of yarn), so they shouldn't care what I think. For anyone who asks, however, I think the whole bloody league (and its Hall) is a sick joke- and a shadow of what it used to be.
PS- And don't even try to say that Pete Rose betting on baseball is the reason for its sad condition. The only graceful moment baseball has had in the past 10 years involved Cal Ripken trotting around Campden Yard... In fact, if Boston and the Cubbies would have made it to the series last year, everyone could have enjoyed the show and then we could have disbanded baseball as far as I'm concerned.
If you want to read a lovely book on baseball, pick up Doris Kearns Goodwin's "Wait til Next Year", talks about growing up in New York when they had the 3 teams and the angst of being a Dodgers or Giants fan. Really well written and really invokes a gentler time (except that even then everyone hated the Yankees!)
Her description of the "shot heard round the world" mirrored my own emotions when Bobby Thompson hit that home run to end the series. Those were the days it was great to be a fan. Yes, folks, this Cape Codder was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan. There have been a ton of great sportscasters, but no one ever called a better game than Red Barber. I grew up with that team as did Ms Kearns/Goodwin and it was a great time. Hard to imagine Carl Furillo, Duke Snyder, Jackie Robinson, Pee Wee Reese or any of the others could find themselves in a situation like the one that surrounds Pete Rose.
As an aside, I remember Carl Furillo once threw out a runner at home from centerfield.....IN THE AIR! Probably the best arm in baseball of all time!
thanks for bringing back those memories. To any baseball fan who hasn't read Wait Till Next Year I guarantee a memroable reading experience.
hj
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
Pete said:
Precisely my point, Harry... the Hall of Fame is, well, I suppose you'll come up with some honorable sounding description- which is fine. However, its not a collection of the best players the game has produced. In my opinion, that's what it should be.
Good point Pete. But even Ty Cobb was rumored to have killed someone, which in my book is a far greater crime then betting on a game, which I don't condone. The fact was:
"There was a warrant in Ohio for Cobb's arrest in the brutal beating of a hotel watchman (1909)".
This can be found at: AmIAnnoying.com
So how do you put a killer in the Hall but keep a better out, where
is the logic in that?
:bbg: :D
Last edited by jediron; 01-29-2004 at 12:01 PM.
Are you kidding me. Pete said:
I think the whole bloody league (and its Hall) is a sick joke- and a shadow of what it used to be.
What it used to be. It inducted into it's hollowed halls wife beaters (Ty Cobb) Womanizers and Beer drinkers (Babe Ruth) (some think he might have been an alcoholic). If that is what it used to be, what is different from today?
:hammer: :drop:
Ty Cobb also used to signal the pitcher to throw at a batter. The pitcher usually did- cause Cobb would give him a beating after the game if he didn't.
What I mean by "the way the game used to be" is this... You used to have players who actually played for a team. You know, players with an actual interest in winning a pennant for the town for which they played?
It used to be baseball players played the game because they enjoyed playing the game... That's how you explain a man who is diagnosed with a terminal illness getting up and saying he considers himself "the luckiest man in the world."
In short, I suppose we used to have a whole bunch of Cal Ripkens. Guys who showed up and played the game for the sake of playing the game. Yes, some of them had less than perfect character (I have news for you, every profession or pursuit involving humans is going to have character problems, because- here's a shocker- people are basically a flawed group), but they were competitors.
Today, a player is happy as punch to go play for an awful team- if they'll pay him a couple dozen million. Staying with one team is considered an anomaly. Players like Roger Clemens think nothing of going from Boston to NEW YORK??? (Actually, Clemens is probably one of the most throw back players of recent times- I mean, throwing at Piazza was just old fashioned intimidation...)
Look, all sports suffer from it- but baseball was supposed to be America's sport. You played it as a kid, and when you watched a game you recognized that the guys playing at that level were just like you- only 1,000s of times better. They had personality (and yes, flaws), but you felt like you could relate to them. I mean, does anyone remember the gritty look of Pete Rose as he would practically bend himself in half at the plate in that weird stance? Do you remember the way he would sprint down the first base line- even after a walk? The way he would twirl the ball and spike it after the final out of an inning?
I'm a Reds fan (I suppose, who really cares anymore)... However, I don't relate to Ken Griffey, Jr. one iota. The kid's a pathetic whining, always injured shell of the kind of player his dad was.
No, you can keep the Hall of Fame, folks. I would take a whole league of Pete Roses and Ty Cobbs over the sad group of steroid pumping millionares we watch today...
(Can you tell I always wanted to do Andy Rooney's segment on 60 minutes???)
Pete said:
Look, all sports suffer from it- but baseball was supposed to be America's sport. You played it as a kid, and when you watched a game you recognized that the guys playing at that level were just like you- only 1,000s of times better. They had personality (and yes, flaws), but you felt like you could relate to them. I mean, does anyone remember the gritty look of Pete Rose as he would practically bend himself in half at the plate in that weird stance? Do you remember the way he would sprint down the first base line- even after a walk? The way he would twirl the ball and spike it after the final out of an inning?
Ya I remember that gritty look on Pete Rose and I remember the gritty look on his face when he said he never bet on Baseball for
over 10 years. So steroids are worst then killing a man or betting
on baseball? Come on you can't have it both ways. Or a boozer
and womanizer like Ruth. Or a punch drunk Billy Martin who would pick a fight with anybody. The Chicago Black Sox who were banned from baseball for illegally betting on games and trying to fix the series in 1919.
O Ya Those were the good ole days!
:hammer:
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