Warranties and limits

[drk]

OK, we have a lab-backed 1-yr ONE TIME scratch warranty on our lenses. Outside of that: tough. Scratches a second time in a year? Tough, you got your one warranty replacement.

Frames, we have a manufacturer-based 1-yr ONE time replacement if there is a breakage that can be considered a manufacturer defect.

No extra charge for warranty.
No copay to get warranty work.
We are not into the insurance game.


So what does this exclude?
"I dropped my glasses and ran over them."
"I lost my glasses."


There's no way we're going to warranty lost glasses, so that's a non-starter. But the "gray area" is when the patient HASN'T claimed their "normal wear and tear" warranty and they have the "I got hit by a meteor" scenario.

On the one hand, in one way we were willing to pay out for a more minor circumstance.
On the other hand, warrany is to back the quality of product, and a meteor to the face can only be blunted with RecSpecs or something. No quality failure occured.

So, how should we play it?
A. Warranty OF QUALITY of glasses...
B. Guarantee/(warranty?) kinda "no fault" and "no questions".

[drk]

How Warranties Work

As noted above, warranties are promises made by manufacturers or retailers about their products and services. These promises can be either explicit or implied. Warranties provide a guarantee about the condition of goods and services purchased, providing an assurance that they are as advertised. They are generally only good for a specified period. When that period ends, the issuing entity is no longer obligated to repair or replace a product previously covered.

Warranties usually have exceptions that limit the conditions in which a manufacturer is obligated to rectify a problem. For example, many warranties for common household items only cover the product for up to one year from the date of purchase. Generally, they are covered only if the product has problems due to defective parts or workmanship.

As a result of these limited manufacturer warranties, many vendors offer extended warranties. Extended warranties are essentially insurance policies for products that consumers pay for upfront. Coverage will usually last for several years above and beyond the manufacturer's warranty and is often more lenient in terms of limited terms and conditions.

[drk]

A warranty provides a promise from one party to the other that certain conditions, such as the quality or life span of a product, will be met. If the product doesn’t meet the conditions of the warranty, it can usually be returned, repaired or replaced. If a merchant guarantees a feature of a product, or even your satisfaction with it, the same holds true. The difference between a warranty and a guarantee is largely a question of word choice.
What Creates a Warranty or Guarantee?

Any promise about the quality, condition, or reliability of a product that a seller makes and that you rely upon when buying a product can create a warranty or guarantee. A direct statement, either verbally or in writing, promising that a product will meet specific expectations creates an express warranty. For example, if a car salesperson promises a minimum gas mileage for a particular vehicle, they have created a warranty. However, even though warrantees can be created orally, it’s smart to ask for them in writing as well, in order to create a record of the merchant’s promise.
Other warranties don’t have to be expressed explicitly at all. These implied warrantees are guarantees that the law reads into your transaction. Almost all consumer products, for example, are covered by an implied warranty of merchantability, meaning that the product is guaranteed to work as typically expected. A merchant can disclaim implied warranties through disclaimers or “as is” sales, but several states will refuse to recognize “as is” disclaimers for consumer goods. Similarly, some warranties can be limited in scope and others may be voided by certain actions. For example, a lifetime guarantee on your refrigerator may be limited to the expected lifetime, say ten years, of the product and voided by unauthorized repairs or modifications.

[NAICITPO]

So, how should we play it?
A. Warranty OF QUALITY of glasses...
B. Guarantee/(warranty?) kinda "no fault" and "no questions".

For me it's all about not taking a loss for the company. If I can get a warranty done at no cost to the company I am most likely going to do it. Let's say there is a scratch and they already have used their replacement. I know our Essilor lab has unlimited scratch guarantee within 2 years.

Mr. Customer: I scratched my lenses again what can you do for me?

I look at when they were ordered and see the warranty should be covered under the 2 year guarantee even though they already used it. Just like you our policy is 1 time replacement, but we keep the 2nd year in our back pocket if we need to use it

Me: Let me talk to the lab rep and see if we can get this done for you as a one time customer satisfaction issue.

They leave their glasses, I call the lab and they do an AR scratch warranty at no cost and everyone wins. I make a note in their file that this is a 2nd time AR scratch replacement and we are doing a 2nd redo as a one time CSAT issue.

Same thing applies for a frame warranty. If a meteor hits their face I might say, the warranty only covers manufacturers defects, but let me talk to the rep and see if they can do anything for us. If the rep comes through great, if they don't the customer knows you tried. We also offer a 30% frame discount for people who break their frames outside of warranty.

It takes a little extra time out of my day but I think if you do it right you can make a customer for life.

[Uncle Fester]

$40 added at pricing.

"This price includes a 12 month warranty from date of pick up."

"75% off frame (must bring in parts) 100% lenses."

"One time only."

Complete or lenses only.

12 months from date of pick up.

[Uilleann]

OK, we have a lab-backed 1-yr ONE TIME scratch warranty on our lenses. Outside of that: tough. Scratches a second time in a year? Tough, you got your one warranty replacement.

Frames, we have a manufacturer-based 1-yr ONE time replacement if there is a breakage that can be considered a manufacturer defect.

No extra charge for warranty.
No copay to get warranty work.
We are not into the insurance game.


So what does this exclude?
"I dropped my glasses and ran over them."
"I lost my glasses."


There's no way we're going to warranty lost glasses, so that's a non-starter. But the "gray area" is when the patient HASN'T claimed their "normal wear and tear" warranty and they have the "I got hit by a meteor" scenario.

On the one hand, in one way we were willing to pay out for a more minor circumstance.
On the other hand, warrany is to back the quality of product, and a meteor to the face can only be blunted with RecSpecs or something. No quality failure occured.

So, how should we play it?
A. Warranty OF QUALITY of glasses...
B. Guarantee/(warranty?) kinda "no fault" and "no questions".

OK Doc, sure.

But just how big a meteor are we talking here?

[Michael22]

I worked at one place that just gave free warranties to everybody, and believe me I took advantage at the corporations expense, and in my current private practice, we charge for one. If it's destroyed at least bring us something to send back to manufacturer and we'll honor it.

[drk]

It would be easy to delineate the situation as such:

1. Manfacturer defect: spot weld popped. Spring hinge busted. Finish peeling off. Coating failure. Crazing. Pad arm falling off.

2. Normal wear and tear and/or accident: Lens scratching, frame flattened from being sat on, superglue, temple tips chewed by canine.


But that means there is "a judgement call". Who would make it? Owner? Maybe more strict. Employee? Maybe more generous.
And that means a possible "he said/she said" with a patient (or patient's mommy).

"I just took them off the nightstand and they were all mangled like this."
"I swear I clean the lenses carefully and I don't know where that immense abrasion came from."


So is there a way to just eliminate the judgment call and make a hard-and-fast rule?

"One time replacement of frame or lens for any reason during the warranty period. Additional replacements at 40% off up to the end of the warranty period."

[optical24/7]

With ins. people, whatever their insurance will cover on replacements. For private pay, you better treat them like gold (which they are). I’ve only had 2 patients that come to mind that actually abused a liberal return policy(unadvertised). Like naicitpo, when you appear to being going overboard to help, they’ll remember and be your biggest cheerleader.

[Uilleann]

Yes yes yes, this is all fine and good. But Doc - about that meteor... (Though, technically, I suppose it would be a "meteorite" if it's contacted someone's glasses down here on terra firma.)

[Elvis Is Alive]

Many independent brands have a two year warranty, and a select few have three years.

Frankly, we have very few warranty claims because the quality of those frames are generally much higher. Also, as a general rule, we don't stock spring hinge frames, which over the years have been the biggest failure point in frames I've sold.

Warranty claims are generally easy to process, although I never had many warranty issues any of large frame players either.

[DanLiv]

But that means there is "a judgement call". Who would make it? Owner? Maybe more strict. Employee? Maybe more generous.
So is there a way to just eliminate the judgment call and make a hard-and-fast rule?
"One time replacement of frame or lens for any reason during the warranty period. Additional replacements at 40% off up to the end of the warranty period."

Yes this is how I operate. We give a (nearly) carte blanche 1 year 1 time guarantee on both frames and lenses, additional replacements 50% up to the end of the guarantee period. And it's not always without material cost to us, sometimes we do eat the cost of a frame or lenses. But we charge a premium for our service, and we give that guarantee in return.

(I try very hard never to use "warranty", that conjures a commonplace understanding of warranty in the same sense as car parts and TVs: the manufacturer is offering the warranty and providing the replacement, the person they are talking to about it is just the middle-man warranty fulfiller. I stress *I* am guaranteeing my product, and *I* am offering to replace it, *I'm* the one making them happy.)

We all can be more generous, but "free" replacements are not free. NAICITPO's example involves talking to the customer, calling the rep or lab, ordering the replacement, the lab pays for it, call the patient again to dispense, take time with them when they come in to swap the lenses. That's all money. Someone is paying, and if it isn't the patient then it's you and your lab. Make sure you collect enough up fron that extra work like this is easily compensated for.

$40 added at pricing.
"This price includes a 12 month warranty from date of pick up."
"One time only."
12 months from date of pick up.

Yup you got is Fester.

[NAICITPO]

We all can be more generous, but "free" replacements are not free. NAICITPO's example involves talking to the customer, calling the rep or lab, ordering the replacement, the lab pays for it, call the patient again to dispense, take time with them when they come in to swap the lenses. That's all money. Someone is paying, and if it isn't the patient then it's you and your lab. Make sure you collect enough up fron that extra work like this is easily compensated for.

Definitely agree with charging more up front to make sure this is easily compensated for. There's a fine line between go above and beyond for your customers and getting walked on. I cannot tell you how many times going above and beyond for customers has resulted in additional sales. One guy's figure 8 liner was gone on his semi-rimless and I had a newer optician that I wanted to show how to do it. I fixed it for him and he said he wouldn't forget it. He said the office he got the glasses at had no idea what the problem with them was... right... He brought in his family who all got multiple pairs of glasses--all cash pay.

When you go out of your way to help a customer don't be afraid to ask them to write a positive review for you on google and yelp. That is something that can pay positive returns for your practice indefinitely.

[drk]

Danny boy:

1. I like it.
2. You charge for it, in a way? You add-on when pricing (as a virtual line item) to cover it?

[optical24/7]

Just like adjusting prices for shrinkage. It’s a cost of doing business.

[DanLiv]

Danny boy:
1. I like it.
2. You charge for it, in a way? You add-on when pricing (as a virtual line item) to cover it?

It's built in to our U&C fees, and for plans that use our U&C (e.g. Eyemed premium materials and Spectera non-formulary items) we just discount as the plan specifies. For U&C irrelevant plans (VSP) it's an additional fee added-on to the fixed materials fees. Some people use my replacement offers, some don't, but the collective pool of funds collected for service guarantees easily covers and material or labor costs I incur. So I am always pleased as punch to do replacements because I know we've already been paid for it.

[iD]

where I work its $25 protection plan that's good for two years and if the frame breaks or lenses become too scratched it's 50% off.

@uncle fester you give a 75% discount on a frame replacement after they pay the initial $40?

[Uncle Fester]

@uncle fester you give a 75% discount on a frame replacement after they pay the initial $40?

Those are the terms with the group I am currently working under. A fair number of frames are discontinued so there's an issue I'm not looking forward to facing.

[Loki]

We have a manufacturing fault warranty that they can use as many times as needed, but it is only manufacturing faults. General wear and tear, or they break it themselves and its not covered. However we now have a separate insurance cover patients can take out that covers everything except loss or theft. So long as they come in with a piece of the specs we can do a new pair with no excess or overheads as many times as they need. It costs based on the specs' value: Up to £200 is £15, up to £300 is £25, and over £300 is £35.
We're a franchise of a big company so it isn't us that covers it if the patients need to make a claim, and I think head office are counting on most people not needing it.

[NAICITPO]

We have a manufacturing fault warranty that they can use as many times as needed, but it is only manufacturing faults. General wear and tear, or they break it themselves and its not covered. However we now have a separate insurance cover patients can take out that covers everything except loss or theft. So long as they come in with a piece of the specs we can do a new pair with no excess or overheads as many times as they need. It costs based on the specs' value: Up to £200 is £15, up to £300 is £25, and over £300 is £35.

I don't miss the days of selling "protection plans" for the evil empire.

I think head office are counting on most people not needing it.

BINGO.

Not needing it or not wanting to deal with the headache of making a claim.

[drk]

Naicitpo:

Just a trip down memory lane for our benefit: how did customers respond to the offer, typically?

[Loki]

I don't miss the days of selling "protection plans" for the evil empire.



BINGO.

Not needing it or not wanting to deal with the headache of making a claim.

To be fair it's actually pretty good. I was skeptical myself at first, but it's helped out some genuinely lovely patients and it's no fuss for them. They come in and say "it's broken!" We say "Ok you have cover, it's sorted" and that's it. Done. No faffing around with long winded claims.

[drk]

I love having proper English spoken on this site. Hear, hear!

[NAICITPO]

Naicitpo:

Just a trip down memory lane for our benefit: how did customers respond to the offer, typically?

I would say it was super easy to sell for kids glasses and anyone who worked outside. Lot's of farmers, construction workers etc. Selling them on reading pairs believe it or not was easier as well. I would ask women to get their reading pair out of their purse and hold them up to the light and show them the scratches, shocker that many don't keep their readers in a case. People that take their glasses on and off a lot was also an easier sell most of the time.

If you just ask every single time and have some good quips about why it's needed you should get 20% of your customers to buy it no problem. If you are really good maybe 40-50%. And if you include it in "bundle" pricing you can get some truly ridiculous percentages. When I was a market manager and I saw some numbers I knew not to ask how they were doing it because I didn't want to know. Saw several people get fired for fuzzy math with insurance benefits to sell more protection plans.

To be fair it's actually pretty good. I was skeptical myself at first, but it's helped out some genuinely lovely patients and it's no fuss for them. They come in and say "it's broken!" We say "Ok you have cover, it's sorted" and that's it. Done. No faffing around with long winded claims.

I don't have a problem with the protection plan in general, it was more of the urgency to push it on customers that was the issue. I never had a problem hitting the minimum requirement, I think it was like 25% of all glasses needed to be sold with the protection plan to stay off the $*** list. Extended warranties aren't usually a great buy and having to sell them all the time didn't feel great. We are opticians, not used car sales people. There's no reason to use high pressure sales tactics when selling glasses. It is the antithesis to what I want my customer's experience to be. I want them to have fun and to trust what I am recommending to them is the best for their vision, not to feel like I am getting one over on them.

I love having proper English spoken on this site. Hear, hear!

Agreed!

[Uncle Fester]

I love having proper English spoken on this site. Hear, hear!

I guess I'll stop posting now.