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Thread: Something different

  1. #1
    OptiBoardaholic
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    Something different

    How would you react if lenses were put into frames by a machine and held by an adhesive. You could still remove the lenses by use of a solvent. This could done with plastic and metal frames alike. This last step in making glasses has not been changed for many decades. Exception Polymil that used an adhesive and grooved lenses.
    This would even work better if the frames had no groove but were flat in the eyewire. Metal frames would not have to open at all.

  2. #2
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    I see problems with temperature changes.

    I see problems with servicing the glasses.

    I see problems with half of the opticians on Optiboard sniffing glue too much.

  3. #3
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    This will not be effected by temperature . It is the same family of adhesives that hold the skin on an airplane under vast temperature variations.
    what kind of problems servicing the glasses do you foresee. Glue sniffers have been around in labs for many years I personally don’t see an added problem . This will be a machine operation except possibly at retail if someone needs to replace a frame. It will be very simple 4 drops on each lens. Think of what will disappear Broken eyewire screws, scratched lenses from the screwdriver, screwdriver injuries from slipping. Lens sizing will be easier as 3/10 small and it will still fit. The really big advantage will be a reduction in crazing as there will be no flex stress on the lenses from the frame. The time needed to train someone to insert lenses will also be reduced.

  4. #4
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Well, let's say I eff up and have to do a remake. Or the patient wants the proverbial "scratch warranty". What would I do? Soak the glasses in a vat of acid?

  5. #5
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    A couple of drops from an eye dropper will release the lens. We have not found any frame material yet that is damaged by the solvent and I want to repeat yet. This is probably 5 to 7 years from being a real product. This is the only area in the lab that has 0 automation and a long learning curve.

  6. #6
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    I, for one, welcome more unnecessary ideas for me to fix, and things for me to show people why what I can do is better.

  7. #7
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    Many years ago I was in a class of ten where the teacher asked each of us which we would take if you could have either A 1 dollar bill or 150 pennies no one took the pennies. He said that one one likes change, things have not changed. New things always meet opposition because of fear of the unknown. This is why it took decades for plastic lenses to over take glass. Automated edgers that could put a bevel on lenses were not easily embraced. The machines only did flat and the skilled opticians put the v bevel by hand. The list is endless for the resistance to new things.

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    And the list of failed and unnecessary changes is about a billion times longer than the successes. Change, does not directly correlate to improvement. The people at Ruth's Chris aren't concerned when McDonald's announces a new McRib sandwich.

    Even if you get to the state of point and click eyeglasses, you're talking to the wrong audience. Your market is the big, big wholesale labs. The VCPs. High volume, numbers are everything, QC be damned, places. The folks who would happy layoff their finish department to cut costs. Except wait they couldn't lay them off, because they would still have to have a finish department for every single other type of frame, or you are planning on replacing the entire global market with your singular mounting system? Unless you can convince VSP to turn over every single frame they make to be your style, you are just muddying the waters with another mounting system. A mounting system that is better how?

  9. #9
    OptiWizard
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    Say a patient sits on their zyl glasses and warps the frame. I need to use heat to get the frame back into alignment and they have an expensive AR so I want to pop the lenses out. I need to use the drops to pop the lenses out and then re-glue them back in? What if the shop is hopping and you are working with a customer's zyl frame and are getting interrupted by another customer asking you questions and you heat the frame up too much and it is about to roll, I pop the lens in quickly to stop that from happening right? Well if it is cut 3/10 smaller how will that work? And what if I need to pop the lens out more than once? I can put the frame to 4 point alignment but you know not everyone's face is symmetrical.

    When 60-70% of our frames that we sell in my store are not metal and we are at 80% + AR... you can see how I would not be excited about this "innovation".

  10. #10
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    I’ll assume this is only a mounting process that could be used on any frame. But I see the same issues that backwards optician mentions. But the only benefit I could see is for large lab production. Other than that, I see no real benefit. Sizing and mounting issues of the past are pretty well addressed by modern edgers that are extremely accurate on shape/size and you can match the frames BC so mounting is almost a non issue today.

    Scratched lenses during mounting are extremely rare today because of these accuracies. Screws break in frames usually by the end user ( sit, stepped on, ect). I would venture that well over 50% of lens finishing is done in house, or central lab for some of the multi location offices.

    I think if a wholesaler moved production to this system they would create more headaches for their accounts than the system could save on the mounting process.

    I love new technology, but not automatically just because it’s “new”.

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    Wow most of you sound like you are a one man band. If you do sixteen things at once and they all are perfect that would be amazing all while talking to an office full of patients. When grooved lenses came on the scene I heard the exact same stories of what if this and what if that and wait see what will you do when someone asks for a grooved frame lens and you don’t have one in the shop. You all make choices some correct some not the success of any product is decided by the market place not an individual.
    This product is directed at a volume lab and does not need any special frame to work. If any lab big or small is producing poor quality the end receiver of the product should be complaining to whoever is paying for their services.
    Everyone who works dispensing eyewear should spend a week in a lab and see how many orders are sent incorrectly to the lab and how many things are returned damaged who knows where for replacement.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lensman11 View Post
    Wow most of you sound like you are a one man band. If you do sixteen things at once and they all are perfect that would be amazing all while talking to an office full of patients.
    Yes, that's correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lensman11 View Post

    Everyone who works dispensing eyewear should spend a week in a lab and see how many orders are sent incorrectly to the lab and how many things are returned damaged who knows where for replacement.
    I would venture a guess that everyone that has replied in this thread has either been in or working in a wholesale lab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lensman11 View Post
    This product is directed at a volume lab and does not need any special frame to work.
    But you are you asking the opinion of individual opticians on optiboard? Maybe provide some actual information in your post such as, target market, advantages, compatibilities, disadvantages, costs, etc. I mean what problem does this solution solve?

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    This is targeted to a large lab, the advantage is consistency in the product ease of use and lower spoilage. The cost of the equipment at this point is not yet known and no one will purchase it if there is not an advantage to them. The advantage is not always cost, consistency and ease of continuous output are important as well. To mount lenses manually would cost would be under $0.05 for the material no machines needed to do that.

  14. #14
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    Sounds clever. Working out the details and you have replicated how 1 billion car windshields are held in place.

  15. #15
    OptiWizard
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lensman11 View Post
    This is targeted to a large lab, the advantage is consistency in the product ease of use and lower spoilage. The cost of the equipment at this point is not yet known and no one will purchase it if there is not an advantage to them. The advantage is not always cost, consistency and ease of continuous output are important as well. To mount lenses manually would cost would be under $0.05 for the material no machines needed to do that.
    I can definitely see the benefits for the lab. I don't know how this benefits the customer, if a lens is popping out frequently then the lens is either cut too small or beveled incorrectly right? Lenses falling out of the frame isn't really a problem, it seems like you are offering a solution in search of a problem.

    And like I side before, I think it would be an absolute nightmare working with this system as an optician. Because yes, private shops are generally one to two man bands at least on the optical side. It sounds like a poop show trying to work with this kind of system with a zyl frame, then you throw in a busy day... I would switch labs even though I have a great relationship with mine and they are local if they switched to this system.

    So I get why as a lab manager you would endorse this, but I don't see how it benefits anyone else.

  16. #16
    OptiBoardaholic KrystleClear's Avatar
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    Personally, I pop out lenses with AR and other coatings before heating up a frame to prevent crazing, so having to soak them in a solvent would get on my nerves. (Everyone keeps saying modern coatings are so much better and they don't craze but I have seen it happen and I have patients who seemingly store their glasses in ovens.)
    Krystle

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