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Thread: Ethics in today's opticianry...

  1. #51
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynegilpin View Post
    When I was brand new in the industry, working in a wholesale lab we had an OD that constantly ordered Executive bifocals for kids: -.25 sph., with a +.50 add. Being young and naive, I asked our branch manager what he was trying to acomplish? The answer? "Profit."

    I've often wondered how the parents got the kids to wear glasses that did absolutely nothing for them. Must have been a never ended battle.
    Sounds like a vision therapy OD. I also can't shake the feeling that mom and dad can't accept the lack of straight A's is something other than effort by adorable Muffy. So we give them glasses to make them smarter.

    Here's a thread that also had me scratching my head, but there can be a reason for yoked prism for children. Or so I read. I just never understood the use of a flat top that negated the prism.

    https://www.optiboard.com/forums/new...treply&t=74224

    Scroll to the bottom to see what may have been involved with an OD practicing vision therapy in very weak powers:

    https://www.universityeyecenter.org/services/children/



  2. #52
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Yes, that was a VT OD, no doubt.

    You can question the validity of the OD's "science" all one wants. (And I do.) You can question the "profit motive" of that kind of practice all you want. (And I do.)

    But you can't KNOW what the OD's motivation was. He/she may have been a "true believer out to save the children, one executive bifocal at a time". They exist.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Yes, that was a VT OD, no doubt.

    You can question the validity of the OD's "science" all one wants. (And I do.) You can question the "profit motive" of that kind of practice all you want. (And I do.)

    But you can't KNOW what the OD's motivation was. He/she may have been a "true believer out to save the children, one executive bifocal at a time". They exist.
    I just find it difficult to believe the number of patients (victims) that clustered in that area of the state. BTW, +.50 add Executives were an "ordered blank" for AO labs. Not our branch. We used so many that we stocked them. I suggested that on slow days we just surface a bunch with a -.25 sph distance to get ahead of the curve. Got the "shut-up kid glare" from my mentor for that one.

  4. #54
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Why is an optician exempt from conflict of interest, then?

    You've erected a castle in the sky, Barry.
    Docs operate under a medical imprimatur.
    Opticians do not.

    B

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Docs operate under a medical imprimatur.
    Opticians do not.

    B
    So if an OD 'sold from the chair' but did not specify an exact product would that still be a conflict of interest in your opinion? For instance they recommend AR instead of Crizal Rock, or progressive but not varilux, photochromatic but not transitions etc.

    I don't need the doc to tell me what products to sell, it's just nice when the customers comes out of the exam saying, "I definitely want a high quality AR coating and your best progressive!" I can ask them questions from there to determine the best individual product for them.

  6. #56
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    It’s nice because it makes it easy
    But there is always a price to be paid for easy.

  7. #57
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter lensmanmd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    It’s nice because it makes it easy
    But there is always a price to be paid for easy.
    Barry is correct. There is a price to be paid for easy.
    Too often, the OD that owns a dispensary falls for BO marketing, without due research. Not saying that it’s true for the handful of ODs, eg., DRK, but my experience says most.

    I do appreciate ODs that are invested in their practice. Once said OD understands the difference between marketing BS and optics, the practice expands. Until then, Eshilux products, and BO insurance, without benefits.
    I bend light. That is what I do.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    It’s nice because it makes it easy
    But there is always a price to be paid for easy.
    What's the negative cost for having a doctor recommend products to their patients?? Our owner is the main OD and he is very likable and has more patients who request him than the others combined. We also track (by doctor) which patients also become optical customers and he is the highest capture rate of the docs as well.

    Not really seeing a downside, but I am open to having my mind changed.

  9. #59
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Docs operate under a medical imprimatur.
    Opticians do not.

    B
    What is a "medical imprimatur"?

  10. #60
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    There's really nothing wrong with essilux products. Pretty much they're the mainstream of our industry. Transitions. Varilux products. Crizal products. Now Shamir products. All of Luxottica's frames.

    Hyped? Sure. Overpriced? Probably. But no worse than "average", and really, their products are 75% percentile at worst.

    Doesn't mean I like the company. Doesn't mean I like their business practices or their impact on eye care. But that's not the issue here.

  11. #61
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter lensmanmd's Avatar
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    Therein lies the conundrum. Zero innovation. Eshilux continues to buy out innovative mfrs to dumb down the competition.
    I bend light. That is what I do.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    There's really nothing wrong with essilux products. Pretty much they're the mainstream of our industry. Transitions. Varilux products. Crizal products. Now Shamir products. All of Luxottica's frames.

    Hyped? Sure. Overpriced? Probably. But no worse than "average", and really, their products are 75% percentile at worst.

    Doesn't mean I like the company. Doesn't mean I like their business practices or their impact on eye care. But that's not the issue here.
    This is what I never got about the 60 minutes piece on luxottica. Like the luxury eyeglass manufacturers would lower their prices because of Lux? Lux frames affect the lower end of the spectrum much more than the higher end.

  13. #63
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    It’s nice because it makes it easy
    But there is always a price to be paid for easy.
    I find this to be a huge oversimplification. The price of disinterested ODs who don't keep up to speed on lens technologies is much, much higher, both from a profit standpoint and a patient care one. Sure, ODs can fall for marketing mumbo-jumbo and snake-oil promotion, but sometimes they also listen to the experienced voices of their optical sales professionals who know better.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  14. #64
    OptiBoardaholic KrystleClear's Avatar
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    Sometimes it helps to hook your doctors up with the actual products. We got our optometrist to try lenses with our lab's proprietary blue blocker so he could see for himself. He hasn't really recommended it much since... But he also started recommending anti-fatigue lenses (like Eyezen but doesn't have to be Essilor product) since trying it.
    Krystle

  15. #65
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Hey, I like that.

    How about an in-office training with the doctor and the optician and the sales rep? Doctor could learn a lot from hearing from them...

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Hey, I like that.

    How about an in-office training with the doctor and the optician and the sales rep? Doctor could learn a lot from hearing from them...
    You don't already do that?

  17. #67
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Well, duh, I do but what about Joe Blow OD?

  18. #68
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    The doctor here doesn't recommend any specific product. They'll recommend they might need a progressive, bifocal or something else. Or that this person might be needing AR or Photochromics.

  19. #69
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    When I started at Lenscrafters, every axis change and .25 power change was enough of a change that we had to push and recommend the sale of new glasses.
    After moving on to an ophthalmologist office, I was instructed on what was truly a necessary change for a patient.
    Today, I sell based off more of what the patient wants with their needs. Some patients want new glasses with any and all changes, and others have drastic changes but can't be convinced otherwise to get new lenses/glasses because they have had adaptation challenges. I have flat out told patients to save their money and wait for insurance to kick back in, to get OTC readers versus $$$ readers, to wait on that 2nd pair until they are sure the 1st pair with the new lens/rx/changes work so they don't feel frustrated over what they have spent if things are still challenging.
    Not all of these choices will work for all patients or practices, or the beliefs of the optical staff working with the patient, but I believe that making things clear to the patient about what is worth their time and money is important in building that trust that we care about their eyes more than their $.

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