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Thread: Frame waiver for POF

  1. #1
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Frame waiver for POF

    OK, who here does this, regularly?

    I've been burned. I'm doing it, now.

  2. #2
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter lensmanmd's Avatar
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    Waivers work for a few. Others will still Karen their way into a free replacement.
    I bend light. That is what I do.

  3. #3
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Always a verbal warning old frames are at patient risk and will not be replaced at no charge. On rare occasion they walk, in which case I breath a sigh of relief for what might have been.




    All Eye Med sign before paying in full and submitting:




    ---EYE MED RETURN AND REMAKE POLICY---

    I HAVE READ THE EYE MED RETURN AND REMAKE POLICY AND AGREE TO HAVE MY EYEGLASSES MADE UNDER THE TERMS STATED.

    MORE SPECIFICALLY I AGREE THAT MY EYEGLASS ORDER WILL BE PROMPTLY SUBMITTED AND ONCE SUBMITTED TO THE LAB I CANNOT CANCEL OR MODIFY THE ORDER IN ANY WAY.

    ALL SUBMITTED ORDERS ARE FINAL.


    NAME_____________________________________ DATE____________________________


    Most of us know the expense and hoops we have to jump through when the next day they say I want a refund!
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 06-23-2022 at 09:44 AM. Reason: tweek...

  4. #4
    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lensmanmd View Post
    Waivers work for a few. Others will still Karen their way into a free replacement.
    100%. I hate enacting policies, making paperwork, and discussing negatives with everyone just to attempt to thwart the unpleasant few. I'd rather just deal with the Karen when she Karens and leave the 99% of my good and understanding customers unbothered by such minutiae. So I do not do POF waivers.

    However, I will replace a POF I or my lab break. If I inspect a frame and say yes I'll do it, I assume a professional responsibility for it when they put it in my hands. This only happens a couple times a year anyway, I will eat the replacement cost and save headaches. Now because I put myself on the line, I inspect frames closely and will simply refuse anything that looks borderline, or even just too much of a PIA to do. Having them sign a waiver means I don't want to take responsibility for it, and if I don't want to take responsibility then I'd rather not do it at all.

    As lensmanmd said, even with the waiver you'll get Karens that just browbeat you to capitulation, or the legit poor sad-story customer that is trying to pinch a penny and can't afford more, and then the frame breaks. Both cases you're most likely giving in and replacing the frame anyway, so just embrace it, remove the waiver hurdle, suck it up, forget it and help the next customer.

    If you are having an epidemic of broken frames with your opticians, then step 1) is just say "no" to POFs. You have every right to. Or at the very least no to POFs that were not purchased from you, and also those that are no longer available to order replacements. Step 2) figure out why your opticians are breaking so many frames and fix it, either by getting them trained in adjusting technique, or trained in identifying problem frames that should be refused from the start.

    For the record I think I'm the odd one out here. My doc loves paperwork and waivers, and every time he comes up with a new policy or we run into a problem like above, he wants office signage, patients signing off at check-in, and paper waivers and contracts signed and scanned into demographics. And every time I pump the brakes and make this same pitch to him. I think I win about 70% of the time. But there's still 30% too much legalese in my office for my taste.

  5. #5
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Yeah, a lot of waivers and stuff is a drag.

    But here's a story.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Crack. I'm not an Oakley "dealer" so I had to pay retail to replace it.

    EFF THAT!!!

  6. #6
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanLiv View Post
    I hate enacting policies, making paperwork, and discussing negatives with everyone just to attempt to thwart the unpleasant few. I'd rather just deal with the Karen when she Karens and leave the 99% of my good and understanding customers unbothered by such minutiae. So I do not do POF waivers.

    However, I will replace a POF I or my lab break. If I inspect a frame and say yes I'll do it, I assume a professional responsibility for it when they put it in my hands. This only happens a couple times a year anyway, I will eat the replacement cost and save headaches. Now because I put myself on the line, I inspect frames closely and will simply refuse anything that looks borderline, or even just too much of a PIA to do. Having them sign a waiver means I don't want to take responsibility for it, and if I don't want to take responsibility then I'd rather not do it at all.
    I could not agree more. Making everyone sign a waiver for something that happens once in 500 frames is bad practice. You're sending a message to 499 patients that their frame is not safe with you to save [redacted wholesale cost] maybe twice a year. Not worth it. In addition, the handful of times you replace a patient's broken frame make you a freaking superhero of customer service in their eyes.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  7. #7
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    No waivers for me. I also, order everything uncut, and do all finishing in house so I don't have to worry about ol' stone hands or butterfingers at the lab destroying a frame. I will do a quick look at and old frame for obvious defects before hand, and just give everyone a verbal warning of possible breakage.

  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Crack. I'm not an Oakley "dealer" so I had to pay retail to replace it.
    EFF THAT!!!
    Ugh, yeah that will make one crazy. If you are worried and don't have access to reasonable prices to replace something, then exercise caution and refuse to do it. Especially PIA frames like that one.

    Or just have a waiver that you selectively go over with a few challenging cases like this. You don't have to issue waivers unilaterally. Leave the easy jobs alone and just assume the minor risk, and when a tough job like this walks in you pull out the waiver and explain the difficulties involved and that there is significant chance of risk.

  9. #9
    OptiBoardaholic
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    I have them initial something saying we are not responsible if the lab breaks them but I always follow up with "Our lab takes good care of our frames so you shouldn't have to worry." That's only cost me a few times where the lab destroys the frame.

  10. #10
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    Our invoices actually say on the bottom * using own frame for new lenses is at your own risk. All sales final. Any Rx already in manufacturing process cannot be cancelled. Changes made to an order in progress which require new lenses will be charged the original fees plus the new order fees applying a 30% discount....

    I inspect all POF frames. If it is really bad I will refuse to put lenses in it. I tell the patient that it's not worth the money you have to spend to put new lenses into the frame when the frame is going to break. I won't say a POF frame never breaks, but it's rare. Also... make some friends! I would never pay retail for a frame that I screwed up if I didn't have to. I have a lot of friends in the business that I can call and explain what happened and the would sell me the frame at cost... or a little over.

  11. #11
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanLiv View Post
    Ugh, yeah that will make one crazy. If you are worried and don't have access to reasonable prices to replace something, then exercise caution and refuse to do it. Especially PIA frames like that one.

    Or just have a waiver that you selectively go over with a few challenging cases like this. You don't have to issue waivers unilaterally. Leave the easy jobs alone and just assume the minor risk, and when a tough job like this walks in you pull out the waiver and explain the difficulties involved and that there is significant chance of risk.
    That's a nice balance...

  12. #12
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mervinek View Post
    Also... make some friends! I would never pay retail for a frame that I screwed up if I didn't have to. I have a lot of friends in the business that I can call and explain what happened and the would sell me the frame at cost... or a little over.
    Hi, merv! How you doin'?

  13. #13
    OptiBoardaholic KrystleClear's Avatar
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    I have started doing it, after a few got broken during edging. I have patients who want to use ancient frames that are held together with a wish and a prayer and refuse to buy a new frame, so I have them sign the form. I tell them we will not be responsible if their frame, be it old or brand new but purchased elsewhere, is lost or broken and encourage them to pick from our frames. That way if they break and the patient freaks out, I can gently remind them of the waiver.
    Krystle

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