Night glare issue

[NAICITPO]

We had a customer who was an emerging presbyope and got reading glasses. As they were leaving they checked the balance on their HSA and realized they needed to spend more. So they also ordered distance glasses as well.

Distance Rx:

OD +0.50 -0.75 x 090
OS +0.25 -0.50 x 085

We did both orders in CR39 with Crizal Sapphire AR. Customer says the computer glasses are working great, however they cannot notice the difference at night when wearing glasses and not wearing glasses. They say the distance is clearer but the glare is the same with and without the glasses. Tried to explain what happens to light when it hits a lens and when it hits our eyes. Think they finally understood why its clearer without glasses, but now wants to know what can be done to reduce the glare further.

I was thinking of trying some sort of a tint, in conjunction with an AR, but was hoping for some lens guru's to steer me in the right direction. Maybe yellow 10-20%? Or am I just chasing my tail here?

[Uilleann]

No tint. Have them really super clean their windshield inside and out. How used to this correction at dist are they? Never worn before (only for near tasks previously by chance?)

[CME4SPECS]

I find that people are expecting the glare from oncoming headlights to be eliminated with an AR lens. I know of nothing that will fix that issue, other than not driving at night.

[Lensman11]

Glare from headlights has been a complaint since cars were invented. The problem was completely solved in 1930’s by Dr Land of the Polaroid Land Camera company. He placed a polarizing filter(which he invented for this purpose) at 45 degrees in front the headlights and a filter in the eyeglasses at the same 45 degree angle and you won’t see the oncoming headlights because the angle is opposite when the car is facing you but will see the light from your headlight as the angle is the same. The car companies did not buy into the idea but American Optical did and laminated the filter between two glass lenses and the first Polaroid sunglasses were born. American optical also put the filter in Plano sunglasses no glass laminate and sold them under the nam Cool Ray starting the Plano sunglasses market.

[NAICITPO]

No tint. Have them really super clean their windshield inside and out. How used to this correction at dist are they? Never worn before (only for near tasks previously by chance?)

Not used to the Rx at all, only wears them for driving and they do that infrequently. Emerging presbyope who never wore Rx before.

[NAICITPO]

I find that people are expecting the glare from oncoming headlights to be eliminated with an AR lens. I know of nothing that will fix that issue, other than not driving at night.

+1

I tell this to people often too. But most people see a difference between AR at night and no AR on their lenses. But since this person is brand new to glasses they are trying to compare the glare with no glasses versus glasses... not really a fair comparison.

[optical24/7]

No tint. Have them really super clean their windshield inside and out. How used to this correction at dist are they? Never worn before (only for near tasks previously by chance?)

This ^^^. Patient even stated glare is the same with and without glasses. It’s not the glasses. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told patients to clean their windshield and it made a huge difference for them. (Also, his spherical equivalent is basically Plano, he really doesn’t benefit much from this Rx)

[Uilleann]

At the end of the day, basically ALL human brains are wired such that throwing plus in front of the eyeballs is jarring to a greater or lesser degree. Add to that the very wrong, but all the same convincing mental gymnastics of "I don't need these damn glasses anyway, and they were too expensive!" and trying to manage the expectations in cases like this can be difficult at best. At the end of the day, they will see better with the correction, and that cyl will absolutely help to reduce glare at night, but it takes time (and willingness to wear) to actually adapt of course.

Sometimes 20/20 (glasses) vs 20/happy (uncorrected) just isn't worth the fight. And he can just live with the glare.

[Uncle Fester]

Remind patients that their pupils dilate at night and a larger pupil means more noticeable glare than during the day when they are constricted.

[drk]

"What kind of glare?"

[AngeHamm]

Yeah, I agree that the patient is likely seeing glare on his windshield. I tell my patients "Your AR coating doesn't jump off your glasses and remove glare from a dirty windshield."

[juno]

To proceed a little further upon this topic, I am somewhat interested in the Zeiss DriveSafe lenses, but we don't have a Zeiss lab we work with. Are they just AR lenses w/ a little tint in them? What would something similar be from Essilor/UNITY/IOT? I've already got AR lenses, but light eye color and high Rx has me wondering if a dedicated night pair is feasible/reasonable/useful

[Uilleann]

Again, let me stress: never EVER EVER EVER create any tinted lens for night driving.

EVER.

It further reduces what is already notably reduced contrast sensitivity in geriatric retinas, and can create dangerous scenarios for the patient (and possibly if they really wanted to push a lawsuit, you as the dispenser also). It's never worth it. Add in clouded media, any hints of glaucomatous or mac degen type changes, and already rather lax laws in many state regarding minimum visual field and acuity requirements, and it's an accident waiting to happen.

Just say no to "night tints".

[lensmanmd]

To proceed a little further upon this topic, I am somewhat interested in the Zeiss DriveSafe lenses, but we don't have a Zeiss lab we work with. Are they just AR lenses w/ a little tint in them? What would something similar be from Essilor/UNITY/IOT? I've already got AR lenses, but light eye color and high Rx has me wondering if a dedicated night pair is feasible/reasonable/useful

There’s this phenomenon called night myopia, where the average wearer “supposedly” benefits from a -.25 correction for low light. Or the pupil dilation under low light that a specific AR can correct.

Two vendors. Two thoughts. No peer reviews.

Clean your windshield inside and out, more inside than out. Divert your eyes from oncoming headlights. Learn to deal with glare. AR coatings for habitual wearers is a must. Just don’t sell Plano AR for night. And never, ever, sell tinted lenses for night driving. Ever. It’s lizard oil, folks.

[Barry Santini]

There’s this phenomenon called night myopia, where the average wearer “supposedly” benefits from a -.25 correction for low light. Or the pupil dilation under low light that a specific AR .

There’s no supposedly about it. Night myopia is actually part of a family of observed “myopias:”

1. Night Myopia - Generally thought tied to the spherical aberration of the inherent cornea seen when the pupil expands at night, and samples a larger portion of the cornea’s diameter.

2. Empty Field Myopia - The tendency of the human eye to adopt a rest focus approximately 1 meter away. Thought to have been generated by evolution as a defense mechanism.

3. Instrument Myopia - Similar to Empty field, but generate when looking through an instrument with a telescopic eyepiece whose focus is nominally set to infinity.

When using binoculars in astronomy, we often see a combined effect of all three.

Night myopia is a real phenomenon.

B

[drk]

My belief is that anyone over 50 *****ing about night driving [like Barry, or me ] has lenticular goofiness. No help for that. Except night tints. (Psych.)

The other subset are younger ladies with big pupils (there, I said it!). I can buy the positive spherical aberration argument there, perhaps. And sure, you can overminus these folks safely (but not too much...R-G Bichrome test: 1st green and you're done).

[juno]

Ok, so what is it DriveSafe actually does, then? Is there any difference between it and a standard or free-form lens of the same material? Is it all down to just their AR? We're an Essilor office with mainly an Essilor lab, so I don't have a quick handy person to explain their marketing jargon in layman to me

[Uilleann]

Ok, so what is it DriveSafe actually does, then?

Makes more money for the Zeiss marketing dept. budget. That's it.

A/R lenses aren't magic.

[DanLiv]

Ok, so what is it DriveSafe actually does, then?

check out this thread https://www.optiboard.com/forums/sho...eiss-DriveSafe. Includes the white paper.

Makes more money for the Zeiss marketing dept. budget. That's it.

Indeed. It's wavefront analysis and blue light filtering, both around for a long time, re-branded to boost marketability.

juno from what I gather Zeiss isn't doing anything that Essilor doesn't already do with WAVE (Eyezen, W2, W3, and X) and Prevencia (or Essential Blue).

[finefocus]

.... Just don’t sell Plano AR for night....

A/R doesn't add anything positive to night vision, it just aims to reduce some of the negatives of having lenses in front of your eyes.
A/R purports to enable transmission rates of 99% or so - no glasses at all gives 100%.

[Rockstargazer]

Agree with all POV's but especially like the "clean the damn windshield" one....... LOL I'll remember that one next time........ Yee haw!

[Michael Davis]

To add to the clean the windshield suggestion, I tell them to first just clean the drivers side and let it go for that for a few days so they can really see the difference. Then of course, clean the whole windshield later