...gain such popular demand as blue blocking lenses.
People have fallen, hook-line-and-sinker for this thing. It plays to everyone's "WEll, I'M oN a CompUTeR A LOt" fantasy, and their "ooH, ComUTERs bAd!" mythology.
How do you handle it?
...gain such popular demand as blue blocking lenses.
People have fallen, hook-line-and-sinker for this thing. It plays to everyone's "WEll, I'M oN a CompUTeR A LOt" fantasy, and their "ooH, ComUTERs bAd!" mythology.
How do you handle it?
https://www.aao.org/eye-health/tips-...asses-worth-itThere is no scientific evidence that the light coming from computer screens is damaging to the eyes. Because of this, the Academy does not recommend any special eye wear for computer use.
I recommend wearing optimally fitted and designed eyeglasses derived from an up-to-date Rx, as needed.
Best regards,
Robert Martellaro
Last edited by Robert Martellaro; 10-11-2021 at 12:54 PM.
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
I could not agree more. I routinely talk people OUT of 'Blue Light' BS.... I explain that I think it's simply a bunch of marketing to increase revenue generation. I still sell a few varieties of 'blue light protection' once in a while for those who've drank the kool-aid and insist. However most thank me profusely for my honesty and saving them a few bucks.Originally Posted by drk
We point out that no one in the office and none of the kids of employees wears them. If we thought it had any merit all of us and our kids would be wearing blue blocking glasses.
Yep a bunch of BS marketing...I tell them I DO NOT WEAR them...
QUOTE=Sledzinator;565421]We point out that no one in the office and none of the kids of employees wears them. If we thought it had any merit all of us and our kids would be wearing blue blocking glasses.[/QUOTE]
I tell them it was a classic guerilla marketing social media driven marketing ploy that worked.
The adamant I ask to google "Does blue light harm my eyes" and try to find an ophthalmologist reviewed paper that it does.
As a fashion statement I have no problem with them but if they are still concerned they should change the screens background to another color.
Most chuckle and more than a few will say I thought so but I work with mostly adults smarter than me.
Ok- not a high bar to clear but you get the idea.
I mentioned this in the Opticians on FB group and a lot of people got downright angry but couldn't direct me to any studies or papers that definitively concluded that blue light caused harm to the eyes and that blue blocking lenses could prevent that. People don't understand that just because one study (paid for by a party that profits from the thing being tested/studied) finds that something might be true, that doesn't mean it is, especially if the study is only done on say, 10 people. There needs to be more consensus amongst the experts and right now their isn't. An opticians goal should be to provide patients/customers (or whatever you prefer to call them) with a well fitting pair of glasses with lenses that will provide them with the best vision for their needs. That doesn't mean that every person you deal with needs to leave with all the bells and whistles on their glasses. Obviously we are salespeople and I understand needing to make a profit, and I understand why others have been told that all the bells and whistles are actually what's best for the patient. You have to consider patient trust and loyalty in the long run, too. If you promise something that can't be delivered, you might lose people. Also, as professionals working in the health care spectrum, we shouldn't make claims that aren't scientifically proven. I guess that might be what upset people - but I stand by it. I don't expect opticians to be reading every academic paper or study that has anything to do with optics or eyecare, but, we should just be careful about what we say and what we promise those trusting us to help them see.
I explain to my patients that if they want it, I will sell it to them, but I won't make any sweeping promises. I explain that some people have said they FEEL like the coating helps with migraines, but again, that is just anecdotal, at least at this point. I make sure to explain to patients that we tend to blink less when we look at screens - and that can make our eyes feel dry and tired. A blue blocker will not make you blink more. It won't make reading the text on screens easier either, on it's own, as that's really up to the near/intermediate correction in the lens. As far as the blue light disrupting your sleeping patterns - most devices now have a nighttime mode where the screen brightness and color can be adjusted, so that the disruption to a circadian rhythm is possibly reduced. The best thing is to just stop using your phone in bed when you're supposed to be falling asleep. When people insist on it, I offer them Crizal Prevencia so they will at least get the benefit of a decent AR. (We weren't super impressed with our lab's in house blue blocker - our optom tried it personally to see if he could notice any benefit.) Most people are grateful that I'm honest and upfront with them. If the patient tries it and feels it does help them, then great.
Krystle
Harvard study states some interesting facts. “Blue light has a dark side” a synopsis is available on line.
"The science into the harms from blue light is mostly done with retinal cells in a petri dish, he said, "or taking a poor mouse and and shining a blue light ray intensely into their eyeball for hours on end.""
KABOOM!
Here's one of many debunking investigative stories:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/marke...tion-1.5364678
Also- Sharpstick had a great post about the petri dish problem but I'm getting busy and will look for the thread when I get a chance.
Note post #48. This is a years ago thread where we beat the need to block blue light pseudo science to death when it first came out:
https://www.optiboard.com/forums/sho...ish+blue+light
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 10-13-2021 at 01:41 PM.
I'm just fascinated on how this product has so much traction, but you have to sell AR by way of a new introduction to most people, like AR just came from Mars or something.
Maybe ask Optiboard meember Brent McCardle, he seems to be selling the blue flavored koolaid. https://www.2020mag.com/ce/blue-light-lenses-with-more
When the industry is granting CEs for a marketing piece disguised science, we are in a pretty bad place.
Two things will ALWAYS baffle me about patients - doubly so after they've been given full and proper information: Those who still purchase "blue blocking" snake oil, and those who still refuse any AR lens outright. The pretzel-like logic required to justify either option is silliness in the extreme. A fool and their money...as the saying goes. Either parting with it for nothing (for the Sweeney Todd fans in the back, think Pirellis "Miracle Elixir" that was nothing but pi....urine.)or those who refuse even basic AR lenses despite the dramatic improvement it has on the visual experience of wearing spec lenses overall. *shrug*
Humans aren't always the sharpest crayon in the box.
I'm not going to go out of my way to persuade or dissuade one way or the other on blue light. If they think it helps it probably does have some sort of a placebo effect. I will let people know there is no definitive studies that say one way or the other about blue light coatings, I neither affirm nor deny blue light protection. If they still want blue light protection I put them in Prevencia/Recharge EX3/Techshield Elite Blue AR coatings. I always show a blank of the blue light AR coating, show them that it appears a little yellow and has a purple reflection. Our office is around 80% AR, it works for us
That sort of behavior by certain elements of our industry is precisely what got us where we are. Its been a constant move away from solid science, medicine, and quality, towards strictly superficial fashion, weak marketing, and a global race to the bottom since at least the 70s. We've made some advances as well to be sure, but as we've all seen in the last 5+ years, misinformation travels faster than light on the interwebs these days, and there are far too many consumers ready to mindlessly lap it up with gusto.
For the record I like Brent.
Here's what I do, when they ask:
"There's no damage that comes from your computer screen. You get more blue light exposure on a nice walk. And I have no idea about that circadian rhythm thing."
"I have blue light protection on my glasses and I like it. It's comfortable, like a light tint. We recommend anti-reflection lenses, anyway, and if it reflects more blue away, it can make some people feel more comfortable, and it costs only a little more than regular AR."
Most people don't get it at that point, but I feel I'm being "fair". In truth, a 10% tan tint with a standard AR does the same thing. And costs about the same.
Brent is one of the brightest young men in this industry. You should like him and continue to review the material on blue light. I agree with most here, but I also believe in Brent. He would not present information he does not believe to be true and accurate and we may be grasping at straws here on the term "damage"? Can the retina be negatively impacted by blue light? Studies are inconclusive but do point to needing further investigation, and I like most feel the computer screen is not a big issue, but I have talked with some excellent folks from the field who claim they get some relief with these lenses on the computer! Curt Duff.....if you still read this, chime in. Can other ocular tissue be affected? More research is needed, and from independent sources. Opticianry schools provide no real contribution to the literature, but Optometry's research output in many areas is improving every year! Lets see more data.
I am retired now, and do not get to see many of my lifelong colleagues here any longer at meetings. My health just won't allow me to travel like I did when a young man! But this board keeps me thinking, and no matter what your feelings about blue light...…whether you see it as marketing hogwash or the real deal, I am enjoying the conversation! Just let me encourage you to be as objective as possible to new things. I just had to state my strong support for a former student who I know personally to be a man of integrity. Thanks Brent for all you have accomplished. I know you have much more to go and I hope to be here to see it!
Best regards to all!
Warren
Deservedly so….
Agree whole heartedly! You can shoot the message (in this case) but don’t shoot the messenger. Brent is extremely a man of integrity. I have every confidence his presentation was exactly as his research showed.
Odds are you just put a pretty big smile on our host's face.
Although I just retired, I plan on sticking around for the same reason, and to keep me honest.
Best regards,
Robert Martellaro
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
I am so glad to read this!
And I hope Doctor McDonald doesn't give up on us as well!
The "damage from the computer screen" is the worst part of the lie that needs to be once and for all killed dead. And that is what 99% of the inquiries come from. As for the AR style lenses [Prevencia, Recharge, et al] they do more than a tint, in that they all ADD large amounts of reflection in the blue/purple band. The very antithesis of what an AR lens is designed to do. So why bother? Not being arrogant here - genuinely why? If you want a tint, get a tint. Your AR stack quality will suffer greatly of course, but that's just the way of things with porous, tintable lens stock. Of course, a light tint negates the increased transmittance of AR anyway, so we're back to square one again regardless. Feel free to slap that devil's advocate label firmly on my forehead Doc. :)
I didn't know that, about tintable "stock" being worse for AR coatings. Huh. Even CR39?
As to decreased transmittance from the tint offsetting increased transmission from the AR, yes, that's right, but sometimes we just care about anti-reflection disability glare, right? That's why we do backside AR on sunnies, right?
I'm glad this thread was resurrected because I need to digest the good stuff in this post!
1. You're saying that...a.) if you're putting AR on a lens, you put it on a lens that isn't "porous"? This is new for me. So...if a lab is doing AR do they choose certain lens types that cannot easily be tinted?
2. You are right, Uilleann, about the incorrect conflation I was having about AR and blue-reflecting lenses. While I would suppose they are similar in some ways, the better analogy I should use is a mirror coating. Right? Blue light lenses are like teeny-weenie mirror coats like on sunglasses.
3. But do they blue-coat the back side, too? (My blue-blocker Zeiss butter-vision specials DO look blue on the back...) That would seem counter-productive. It would be better for a standard AR on the back side, right?
4. Re: tinting and standard AR. Can we correctly separate two functions of AR coatings? Function 1: block surface reflections. Function 2: increase light transmittance. I know that destructive interference of the reflected light causes an automatic increase in light transmittance..."that destroyed reflection has to go somewhere". But if the lens is tinted, wouldn't it also allow anti-reflectance to occur? The tint would act as a "light sink", right?
So, my presumed conclusion is that you CAN separate the functions of AR.
Zeiss AR lenses have a blue reflex color, so their non-HEV backside layer will look blue, just not as mirror-blue as the front.
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
Yes, excellent!
Just saw the CE course in 20/20 mag on Zeiss's Blue Guard. Notice how they always say "potentially harmful."
I wonder why UV protection isn't as valued as blue light protection? I see people driving around squinting because of bright sunlight all the time. I do not understand why so many people go without sunglasses. I have NEVER been asked during a sale if UV protection can be added to their lenses. I get asked about blue light protection fairly often by my younger customers.
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