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Thread: Mandatory COVID vaccines

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAICITPO View Post
    Even the Ph.D.s in Epidemiology don't know what to expect next. You can only go on the data that you have currently and use it with an open mind and know that things may change rapidly.
    But the data seems inconsistent at best, flawed in the middle, and heavily politically driven at worst...

    And, as far as those Ph.D's... if they don't know what to expect next? Excuse me, but then why the F&*K are we listening to them? Their track record is not superb. We have a 99.8% chance of surviving this thing but we should turn our worlds upside down (For 18+ months) for people that can't say with a certainty what to do next? And, be careful displaying any certainties to me because 5 minutes later they're saying something opposite of the previous 'certainty'....

    Oh, that's right... I get it... get the shot(s) (x3) (or more!), social distance, and wear your mask... Sure. Sheep.

    Remember 15 days to flatten the curve? Yeah, so do I.

  2. #27
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAICITPO View Post
    Even the Ph.D.s in Epidemiology don't know what to expect next. You can only go on the data that you have currently and use it with an open mind and know that things may change rapidly.
    Well said!

    I think this study sums up where we are today nicely. This quote is at the end of the article:

    "This study’s findings suggest currently available vaccines have high effectiveness for preventing laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and COVID-19 hospitalization. However, VE (vaccine effectiveness) against infection appears to have declined in recent months in New York, coinciding with a period of easing societal public health restrictions††† and increasing Delta variant circulation (8). These findings support a multipronged approach to reducing new COVID-19 hospitalizations and cases, centered on vaccination, and including other approaches such as masking and physical distancing."

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e1.htm

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quig View Post
    But the data seems inconsistent at best, flawed in the middle, and heavily politically driven at worst...

    And, as far as those Ph.D's... if they don't know what to expect next? Excuse me, but then why the F&*K are we listening to them? Their track record is not superb. We have a 99.8% chance of surviving this thing but we should turn our worlds upside down (For 18+ months) for people that can't say with a certainty what to do next? And, be careful displaying any certainties to me because 5 minutes later they're saying something opposite of the previous 'certainty'....

    Oh, that's right... I get it... get the shot(s) (x3) (or more!), social distance, and wear your mask... Sure. Sheep.

    Remember 15 days to flatten the curve? Yeah, so do I.
    I don't think the data is flawed, I think the interpretation of the data could be flawed. It isn't rocket science to look at the methodologies of studies and make sure there aren't gaping holes in the data. People lie, data doesn't.

  4. #29
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    I haven't heard the "99.8%" figure before; I assume it is meant to be taken as obviously overstated for effect. 600K dead seem to belie that number. I take it as a good thing that the professionals update their conclusions as new info becomes available.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    I haven't heard the "99.8%" figure before; I assume it is meant to be taken as obviously overstated for effect. 600K dead seem to belie that number. I take it as a good thing that the professionals update their conclusions as new info becomes available.
    Well if you took the 600k deaths and then took the total population of the US, between 320-330 million that's around 0.18% which I assume is where the 99.8% figure Quig is quoting comes from.

    But yes, I do find it comforting and not concerning that experts change their opinions based on new research. "You said if we locked down to flatten the curve we would beat the virus!" It obviously didn't work but that doesn't mean it wasn't worth doing.

  6. #31
    OptiBoard Professional KrystleClear's Avatar
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    Just because something is 99.8 "survivable" as is so often said, it doesn't mean it's going to be an illness you shouldn't worry about. I had it and was fine other than having flu-like symptons, but I was 32 at the time, and have no other health conditions and am active. I was fortunate to only lose a few weeks of work. I have lost loved ones due to this virus. I also saw a family member nearly die from it. Thankfully, yes, he survived, but he was in the hospital for two months, some of that time he was in a coma, and the hospital bills are unfathomable. They'll never pay it all off. Then he had to go to a rehab facility to help get him back on his feet when he could breathe on his own again. They are drowning in medical bills and he was out of work for quite a long time. He is only in his 30s and was otherwise healthy. Now he has what could be lifelong heart problems because of having covid and developing covid pneumonia. I don't know if I would even play Russian Roulette even if there was a 99.8% chance that the chamber would be empty. Just my personal feelings.

    Something I thought was neat - we masked at work through the whole pandemic. I never got so much as a cold, whereas, normally I would get several colds and or the flu during the year. You get coughed on by patients when you are close to their eyeballs, unfortunately, and they way we hand off charts from on employee to another probably contributes to spreading germs. One coworker in particular would ALWAYS catch some type of cold from her nephews every few months and inevitably I would always catch it, because she would be the one handing off all the patients to me. Not so with all the covid precautions. Because of masking and actually being more mindful about sanitizing every single thing and washing our hands, none of us at my office got sick the whole time.

    I would hate to be the one in charge of making decisions like whether or not all staff need to be vaccinated. People have such strong convictions for and against and I can see employees just walking off the job to avoid having to get the vaccine. A lot of offices are already short staffed as it is, and patients are wanting to be seen again.

    Edit to add: I caught covid from a coworker who did not mask outside of work. Only way we can think I got it was from unmasking to drink my water while we were in the same room. Lesson learned!
    Krystle

  7. #32
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Krystle brings up the reason/s to get the shot. Yea, the odds are in your favor that you’ll “live” through it, but who would want to risk the “long” Covid symptoms, some thought to be life long. ( Even though I’ve retired, I still enjoy being able to breathe…)

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrystleClear View Post
    Edit to add: I caught covid from a coworker who did not mask outside of work. Only way we can think I got it was from unmasking to drink my water while we were in the same room. Lesson learned!
    Also have to remember that a mask isn't a 100% protection against catching covid. I believe it certainly helps, the data is pretty mixed though. But you were still breathing the same air as someone that had covid in close proximity with them.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAICITPO View Post
    ... you were still breathing the same air....
    But probably not the droplets

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    But probably not the droplets
    Ok then how did she get covid from her co-worker who was also presumably masked?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAICITPO View Post
    Also have to remember that a mask isn't a 100% protection against catching covid. I believe it certainly helps, the data is pretty mixed though. But you were still breathing the same air as someone that had covid in close proximity with them.
    Yeah, I understand that a cloth mask does not 100% prevent transmission. But, it does lower the risk. When we speak and breathe, we spray water droplets with our breath. A mask catches at least SOME of those droplets. Our little "lab" area is a very small space, so social distancing is not always possible when we both have to be back there in our little workspace, however, we only work at the same time for 2.5 hours, the rest of the week we work solo. I actually left the optical world for about 4-5 months during the pandemic after getting burnt out and working in a large warehouse handling used smartphones for repair and refurbishing. we were crammed in like sardines there. Masks were required at all times, but cases were fairly low (about 50 from March 2020 to January 2021 for a warehouse of 3,000 employees), despite a complete lack of social distancing. Even if you mask and wash your hands constantly, there is always a chance of transmission. Unless you're in a bubble.
    Krystle

  12. #37
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAICITPO View Post
    Ok then how did she get covid from her co-worker who was also presumably masked?
    Unless you look like this there is no guarantee you will not catch it. You can catch this if enough virus gets in your eyes but bottom line we can almost never know where the source was.

    Our office motto backed by my doc who has a daughter and son in law who are both MD's is:

    NO SHIRT
    NO SHOES
    NO MASK
    NO SERVICE


  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAICITPO View Post
    Ok then how did she get covid from her co-worker who was also presumably masked?
    This coworker often removed the mask when in our lab and out of patient sight. I don't blame her, as sitting in a stuffy office for 10-12 hours with a mask on can give you a bit of a headache and it is very tempting to pull it off for a little break. Obviously, I was doing the same to drink my water.
    Krystle

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrystleClear View Post
    Yeah, I understand that a cloth mask does not 100% prevent transmission. But, it does lower the risk. When we speak and breathe, we spray water droplets with our breath. A mask catches at least SOME of those droplets. Our little "lab" area is a very small space, so social distancing is not always possible when we both have to be back there in our little workspace, however, we only work at the same time for 2.5 hours, the rest of the week we work solo. I actually left the optical world for about 4-5 months during the pandemic after getting burnt out and working in a large warehouse handling used smartphones for repair and refurbishing. we were crammed in like sardines there. Masks were required at all times, but cases were fairly low (about 50 from March 2020 to January 2021 for a warehouse of 3,000 employees), despite a complete lack of social distancing. Even if you mask and wash your hands constantly, there is always a chance of transmission. Unless you're in a bubble.
    You are comparing apples to kiwis here. Delta is more transmissible than prior variants from the research that we have so far.

    I agree that masks catch some droplets, we don't have any real good studies that show how exactly effective they are against covid and then against the various mutations of it. I do agree with you that it has been nice not having a cold this past 18 months. I don't know much of that is due to how often I am washing my hands, cleaning my car keys and cell phone in our UV cleaner, and wearing a mask with patients.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Unless you look like this there is no guarantee you will not catch it. You can catch this if enough virus gets in your eyes but bottom line we can almost never know where the source was.

    Our office motto backed by my doc who has a daughter and son in law who are both MD's is:

    NO SHIRT
    NO SHOES
    NO MASK
    NO SERVICE

    +1

  16. #41
    One eye sees, the other feels. OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Fairly plain-speak on viruses and why we urgently need to reduce transmission, with links to the harder science, the latter maybe for those with microbiology training.

    https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/take-a-stand-now-to-stop-covid-19-
    variants


    When the virus replicates, it can mutate. If replication and transmission increase so does mutations. The wild type of SARS-CoV-2 is at least 3 times as infectious as the seasonal flu4 and the D614G strain increases infectivity further by generating 4 to 5 times the number of spike proteins on its capsule, increasing its transmissibility. This set the stage for rampant mutations. It may be true that each virus mutates half as much as the seasonal flu but with increased transmissibility, SARS-CoV-2 rapidly mutated and outpaced the seasonal flu with the emergence of new variants.
    Robert
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    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    It is easier to fool a man, than to convince a man he has been fooled. -Mark Twain

  17. #42
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    There is literally no scientifically fact based reason NOT to vaccinate AND wear masks at all times in public.

    N-O-N-E.

    It really is that simple folks. Thankfully, many of us get that, and realize there is no reason we cannot, or should not do both. And should have been doing all along: masks since last spring, and the vaccine since Dec 2020/Jan 2021.

    There is zero excuse. This could have been over months ago if we, collectively as a society, would have heeded the most basic and easy scientific and medical advice from the outset. But there are far too many in the world who try to use any possible reason NOT to follow the most basic societal hygienic policy in the context of this pandemic.

    Get the jab people.

    Do it yesterday.

    And wear a damn mask.

    Properly. You remember your nose is still connected to your lungs too I'm sure. Cover it up.

    The end. Literally, the end. There is nothing else to say. Do it.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.... blah, blah, blah.... blah....... blah, blah...

    The end. Literally, the end. There is nothing else to say. Do it.
    Nothing else to say? Please....

    Well, I'm sure glad we cleared all that up, you know.... because YOU said so.

    Pure comedy. You're completely drunk on the Kool-Aid. Keep up the good work.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quig View Post
    Nothing else to say? Please....

    Well, I'm sure glad we cleared all that up, you know.... because YOU said so.

    Pure comedy. You're completely drunk on the Kool-Aid. Keep up the good work.
    Sheep
    Koolaid
    You were right, it's pretty hard to keep politics out of this.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    Sheep
    Koolaid
    You were right, it's pretty hard to keep politics out of this.
    I truly wish with everything in me that the 'Pandemic' wasn't a bout politics, I really do. To deny that this thing is political is pure fantasy land.

  21. #46
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quig View Post
    Nothing else to say? Please....

    Well, I'm sure glad we cleared all that up, you know.... because YOU said so.

    Pure comedy. You're completely drunk on the Kool-Aid. Keep up the good work.
    Nice job. You single-handedly got this thread closed.

    For the record, the only reason that masking and getting a vaccine during a world-wide pandemic that has killed millions of people and over 600,000 Americans is because certain people decided to make it political. There is nothing inherently political about using common sense to protect and save lives during a major health crisis.


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