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Thread: Mandatory COVID vaccines

  1. #1
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Mandatory COVID vaccines

    The Governors of Washington and Oregon just mandated COVID vaccines for all health care workers with stiff fines for noncompliant businesses. How will you handle employees who refuse to get vaccinated?
    Last edited by rbaker; 08-19-2021 at 11:50 PM.

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    Is talk in the company i work for in Australia that we might have mandatory vax status - doesn't bother me as of 23 hours ago i had my 2nd shot myself (just now my arm is dead and i am trying to fit and edge lenses with 1 arm!)

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    You can help them find other employment if they won't cooperate. They have a choice. I strongly support vaccination, and it is important in this current situation with the virus.

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    In our state we are an at will state which means you can be fired for any reason. Our owner has made it mandatory or you'll be fired. We only had 1 person who was not vaccinated and she has since said she will comply. In this area, everyone is hiring so if you really don't want it, you can easily get employment elsewhere. Our situation is also a little different in that we are located in a hospital setting and our building is owned by the hospital. The hospital has already mandated that everyone be vaccinated, but I'm not sure how that rules trickle down to us. Like I said, we are an at will state so you can be fired for no reason at all.

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    OptiBoard Professional OptiBoard Silver Supporter Optical Roy's Avatar
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    Not an anti-vax but also not agreeable to a non FDA approved shot. I guess I was asleep when the freedom to chose was outlawed in this country.
    Roy W. Jackson, Sr. ABOC

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    I thought this board was supposed to be 'Apolitical'? Surely there's not politics involved here!

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    OptiBoard Professional KrystleClear's Avatar
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    Vaccinations shouldn't be a political issue, though. Medical treatment and care is not political. OP didn't ask for opinions on the vaccine, just how we are handling a vaccine mandate where we don't have a choice.

    I got my shots, so I am good to go, but several coworkers have refused due to personal beliefs. There hasn't been a statewide mandate for health care workers yet, but I do not know how it will play out if that does happen. I am afraid we would lose some good employees. However, we see mostly elderly, at-risk patients so... in a perfect world, we would all be taking precautions to protect our patients, but unfortunately it's not that simple these days.
    Last edited by KrystleClear; 08-20-2021 at 10:59 AM. Reason: typo
    Krystle

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    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quig View Post
    I thought this board was supposed to be 'Apolitical'? Surely there's not politics involved here!
    Exactly. Let's keep this non-political or I will have to close this thread.


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    Doesn't matter what you believe here. An at will state can fire you because you like the color blue.

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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Mandating the vaccine makes good business sense, and is the only correct choice for public health - because we remain in a continually varying global pandemic. To date, about 4 and a half million people have died. Countless others have been left with debilitating health problems that may well exist for the rest of their lives. The median age of death is shifting younger and younger as the Delta, Delta Plus, and Lambda variants explode. The unvaccinated bear the overwhelming share of ongoing deaths, ICU hospitalizations, and long term health problems.

    There is NO reason for any rational person to refuse vaccination at this point. Do it for your patients. Do it for your co-workers. Do it for your parents and grandparents, your kids, your siblings. Do it for your neighbors. Do it for the immunocompromised individual you will never meet, but who has to travel outside of their home for life saving medical care because they don't have a choice. Let's take care of each other. Get the jabs. And please just wear a damn mask. Properly. Thanks friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Mandating the vaccine makes good business sense, and is the only correct choice for public health - because we remain in a continually varying global pandemic. To date, about 4 and a half million people have died. Countless others have been left with debilitating health problems that may well exist for the rest of their lives. The median age of death is shifting younger and younger as the Delta, Delta Plus, and Lambda variants explode. The unvaccinated bear the overwhelming share of ongoing deaths, ICU hospitalizations, and long term health problems.

    There is NO reason for any rational person to refuse vaccination at this point. Do it for your patients. Do it for your co-workers. Do it for your parents and grandparents, your kids, your siblings. Do it for your neighbors. Do it for the immunocompromised individual you will never meet, but who has to travel outside of their home for life saving medical care because they don't have a choice. Let's take care of each other. Get the jabs. And please just wear a damn mask. Properly. Thanks friends.
    +1

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    For the record I am fully vaccinated, I got the jab as soon as I could. I will also get the booster whenever I am allowed. This is my current understanding of the efficacy of vaccines and stopping the spread of the virus though--It's not great Bob for the Delta variant. Some data I am seeing out of Israel shows that 6 months after the 2nd dose is administered some people are showing as little as only 15% efficacy in stopping the spread of the delta variant. If this is truly the case how much protection is the vaccine giving us? So yes, the vaccine is still great for flattening the curve. If we have another large outbreak we should look for ways to flatten the curve so everyone that needs to be hospitalized can be. All life is precious and anything we can do to save lives is important.

    With all that said, I say this, it seems to me that a vaccine passport is fools gold. I know for me personally, before I go see immunocompromised people in my family I am getting tested now that the Delta variant is the dominant strain. I know that I could be passing the virus on even if both me and my loved ones are vaccinated. The chances were much less likely with the original virus compared to this new variant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    Exactly. Let's keep this non-political or I will have to close this thread.
    Sorry, no way to keep this one free from politics. Anyone who says this whole mess isn't saturated with politics has their head deep in the sand.

    Proceed. I'll stay out of it so you don't have to display 'cancel culture'.

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    Two excellent posts! Vaccination has saved us from previous issues, like Polio and others. It is the way to grab ahold of Covid now and we must do as Uilleann asks us to do above. Be sure to protect yourselves, your family and all those around you. If you have not, please get the shot ASAP. Wear a mask, and be sure to test of there is a possibility you have come in contact with someone with Covid. As a member of a Health System Board of Trustees (10 hospitals), my morning report from our CEO reinforces the growing concern with the Delta Variant. Our beds are filling up. Yes you you still can catch the virus after vaccination, but there is less chance of hospitalization, and the disease appears as mild flu symptoms if vaccinated.

    One concern of some unfamiliar with the FDA and it's processes is the lack of approval of vaccines. This is not a valid concern. All of them went through an emergency process. A report I just received this evening indicates Pfizer, who has gone back through the full process will be approved completely on Monday. It appears tests are complete, and they will formalize it Monday. So, that may bring peace of mind to some who are concerned. It is strange we complain often about how long it takes for the government to take action on issues. To help save lives, they expedited an approval, and we still complain showing a complete lack of trust. It is not surprising with all the media BS. You never know who to believe, but. Folks vaccination is the key to getting this disease under control before we face more significant issues. If we do not, the virus will continue to morph into even new variants beyond Delta, each becoming more deadly. The world has faced health issues before, and we will again, but the only way is if we work together. Help do your part. Some say it is about freedom of choice. OK, but your freedom must not cause others death. Again, do your part now. Help us fight this growing Public Health issue. Thanks for reading my views. I know we all will not think a like, but I have to also do MY part to report to you, my friends, information I am privy to that might encourage you to consider getting vaccinated.

    To each of you, may you all remain safe and healthy.

    Best regards.,
    Warren
    Last edited by wmcdonald; 08-21-2021 at 10:28 PM.

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    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    "If we do not, the virus will continue to morph into even new variants beyond Delta, each becoming more deadly."

    Pediatricians are seeing an increase in the severity of its effects on children so I too hope we can, like polio (which was not universally accented as well) recognize the vaccine is by far safer than catching covid and trusting your immune system. I hope it does not turn out to do something like chicken pox which after a long dormancy can bring on shingles as covid is found in the brain.

    This technology (CRISPR) is proving revolutionary in how many diseases can be treated..

    https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2...ing-technique/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    "If we do not, the virus will continue to morph into even new variants beyond Delta, each becoming more deadly."
    Interesting perspective. I wonder if anyone could be so kind as to point me to the specific scientific literature showing that vaccines prevent 'morphing' or 'mutating'. Also, if I could see the evidence that each time a virus 'morphs' or 'mutates' it certainly becomes MORE deadly than the previous version that would be great too. I'll wait here.

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    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quig View Post
    Interesting perspective. I wonder if anyone could be so kind as to point me to the specific scientific literature showing that vaccines prevent 'morphing' or 'mutating'. Also, if I could see the evidence that each time a virus 'morphs' or 'mutates' it certainly becomes MORE deadly than the previous version that would be great too. I'll wait here.
    Vaccines deny a host where the mutations occur.

    Polio is still with us in generally remote and undeveloped parts of the world where vaccination campaigns have failed.

    This is what can happen when you host covid:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5075021/


    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 08-23-2021 at 11:11 AM. Reason: tweak...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Vaccines deny a host where the mutations occur.

    This is what can happen when you host covid:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5075021/

    6 months post 2nd dose in Israel they are seeing the pfizer vaccine only preventing 15% of covid cases and it looks like that protection continues to wane. So it doesn't seem to be as effective denying a host as people seem to believe. Now it does help in preventing severe disease and hospitalization, which is vitally important if we get to a point where hospitals are full.

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    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAICITPO View Post
    6 months post 2nd dose in Israel they are seeing the pfizer vaccine only preventing 15% of covid cases and it looks like that protection continues to wane. So it doesn't seem to be as effective denying a host as people seem to believe. Now it does help in preventing severe disease and hospitalization, which is vitally important if we get to a point where hospitals are full.
    Point taken.

    My doc is working to get an 8 month booster scheduled in October as the office was fully vaccinated in early March as part of phase 1B healthcare workers.

    It looks like this will be a required booster every year.

    My sister in law is a critical care nurse and is terribly frustrated by the unvaccinated as they die a terrifying prolonged suffocating death unnecessarily and before being placed on a ventilator pleading for the vaccine- but at that point it is too late.

    If you have a health care directive for someone you should see about an addendum to account for covid scenarios.

    Download one from this site:

    https://compassionandchoices.org/res...care-planning/
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 08-23-2021 at 12:59 PM. Reason: tweak...

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    WHO and CDC have indicted many times that new strains of this virus will develop and that just as we are seeing in the Delta variant, these new strains are expected to cause even more harm so we need to get it under control ASAP with vaccination. Now, this can be interpreted a number of ways. We will just have to see how any new variants develop and how we react to them. Fortunately current vaccines have been somewhat effective against the Delta variant. It is not always the case, but in my view, I think the CDC is using this potential for new variants to help persuade those who have yet to be vaccinated to consider it. Now that the approval is complete, and please note that my initial post was written prior to it's approval but it was almost common knowledge many in the academic community that the tests were complete and they would move quickly to get this thing done. I am very glad! I know all have their views, and I will say no more. But I will ask one more tie to get the shot when you can. I believe in this approach, and I also encourage you all to still take personal precautions like masking and social distancing. I hope all remain safe and healthy.

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    It went through an expedited process and has now been fully approved. We often complain about the largess of the government and being slow to act. This time they moved quickly and its still not enough. This disease is killing people. At what point does individual rights outweigh the safety of the population? Vaccination has helped us virtually eliminate Polio, and way back when I was an elementary school student, we ere all required to take a vaccination. A droplet of the vaccine was placed on a sugar cube. We all took it, and it directly correlated to significant reductions in this deadly disease. There are countless other examples that are easy to find where vaccines did their job! Best wishes and stay healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    It went through an expedited process and has now been fully approved. We often complain about the largess of the government and being slow to act. This time they moved quickly and its still not enough. This disease is killing people. At what point does individual rights outweigh the safety of the population? Vaccination has helped us virtually eliminate Polio, and way back when I was an elementary school student, we ere all required to take a vaccination. A droplet of the vaccine was placed on a sugar cube. We all took it, and it directly correlated to significant reductions in this deadly disease. There are countless other examples that are easy to find where vaccines did their job! Best wishes and stay healthy.

    The covid vaccine is not the polio vaccine. It does not produce a long term sterilizing immunity. I don't know why people think that if everyone were to take the vaccine we would somehow live in a perfect world, that's a fairyland. For one there are billions of people not vaccinated in the world where the virus will continue to spread unfettered. And two, the virus still spreads among the vaccinated.

    Again from my last post data out of Israel is not promising for the vaccines ability to stop the spread of the delta variant. 6 months post 2nd dose it is 15% and the ability the vaccine has to stop the spread looks to continue to wane the longer you are away from the 2nd dose. So we will for certain need a booster every year. But the biggest reason to take the vaccine isn't to stop the spread, it is to not die if you get the virus. Or not to take up an ICU room, oxygen and ventilators.

    I support the vaccine and boosters and masks, but the way people are talking about the vaccine as a cure-all--it goes beyond the science.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAICITPO View Post
    .....I don't know why people think that if everyone were to take the vaccine we would somehow live in a perfect world, that's a fairyland.....talking about the vaccine as a cure-all.....it goes beyond the science.
    All true, but it's what we've got; actually, it's all we've got

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    Crazy, so many words typed in all the replies and so many are so certain about so many things that are certainly uncertain. Information is pointing in every direction, there are solid arguments for pretty much everything. However there are so many who consider themselves a Ph.D. in Epidemiology based on what they read online...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quig View Post
    Crazy, so many words typed in all the replies and so many are so certain about so many things that are certainly uncertain. Information is pointing in every direction, there are solid arguments for pretty much everything. However there are so many who consider themselves a Ph.D. in Epidemiology based on what they read online...
    Even the Ph.D.s in Epidemiology don't know what to expect next. You can only go on the data that you have currently and use it with an open mind and know that things may change rapidly.

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