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Thread: VSP and me

  1. #1
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    Question VSP and me

    So, my Docs signed up for the VSP in-house edging (single vision only). My question is: Has anyone edged more than SV in their lab under the VSP "edge it yoself" deal thats been worked out?

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    OptiBoard Professional IIxIPariahIxII's Avatar
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    Technically speaking, you can't. Under IOF it's usually just SV. However, majority of the time, you can order uncuts unless you signed a contract specifically stating otherwise. Do you know if it was the IOF Lab contract or the entire contract? IOF allows you to edge on site, but literally for stock jobs that you can order through Plexus

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    OptiBoard Professional IIxIPariahIxII's Avatar
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    I should clarify, that IOF is under your lab selection when processing orders

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    The better question is why would you want to edge an expensive pair of progressives. The program is only for SV bought from Plexus. I would say stick to it. I worked at an office that try to edge all SV lens through Plexus. I tried explaining that some were still best off sending to the lab. If you look at their stock catalog you can see what the reimbursement is for each type of lens. Remember you still are paying someone to edge lens so the reimbursement should cover the time to do it as well. Unfortuanetly they don't offer 1.60 for Plexus, just CR-39, poly, Trivex, 1.67 and one lens in 1.74.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bta89 View Post
    The better question is why would you want to edge an expensive pair of progressives.
    As someone who routinely edges expensive pair of progressives in our office, the answer is convenience for the customer. If they are re-lensing their own frame they get to continue seeing while the lenses come in.

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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bta89 View Post
    The better question is why would you want to edge an expensive pair of progressives.
    All kinds of reasons. Patient convenience if we're re-using POFs, for one. I'm a better finishing technician than most, for another. And it saves us the edging fee on every job, which is the big one.
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    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    oopps!!!
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 06-16-2021 at 11:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    I can't get the math to work out Andrew for an office that isn't running the edger all day.

    By my numbers if you do 10 jobs a day Monday through Saturday saving $12 (which is a little high)...

    313 days X $12 = 3,756

    So a $40,000 edger breaks even at 10 years not counting any maintenance.

    Twenty years ago as our labs got into bed with managed care we got a tracer, added up to 10 or 15 bucks here and there to U&C charges and never looked back.
    Am I missing something?? $3756 is one job per day and you mention doing 10 par day.

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    I do remember one of the lens guru's on here saying that it is better to do digital progressives with plus power at the lab instead of as uncuts. Since hearing that I have sent those orders to the lab. But yes, saving $10-12 on edging and patient convenience is pretty nice.

    The biggest reason though to edge yourself IMO is that finished single vision lenses are so much cheaper than using the lab. In the long run the savings really add up.

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    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gilman View Post
    Am I missing something?? $3756 is one job per day and you mention doing 10 par day.
    Quick- help me delete!

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    Break even isn't just about $$$$$$. I would say anyone today that is edging in house(including myself) isn't edging in house to break even dollar wise, or make extra money. The edge and mount fees are pretty small these days. The reason we edge in house is because we can produce a much better final product for the patient than a wholesale lab. Even the best finishing labs can't do what I can do in house, because they have never seen the specific frame on the specific patient. I don't deal with VSP or managed care so I can charge a premium for my work, more than making up for the paltry edge and mount fees.

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    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    Any lab, even exclusively VSP labs, will send you uncuts. The IOF pays you more to compensate for you doing the edging work, but will only pay for Plexus-sourced FSV. If you edge a surfaced lens VSP is still paying the lab for the edging work and will not pay you for it, so you are taking on the responsibility and effort of the edging for zero compensation from VSP, so that would be a reason not to bother. But exactly as others have said I will still do it whenever it's a benefit to a customer; the compensation is my customer's satisfaction rather than VSP's pittance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gilman View Post
    Am I missing something?? $3756 is one job per day and you mention doing 10 par day.
    Yeah Don you're right, one needs to multiply by jobs per day. Fester's example is a LOT of jobs. My office is very conservative in our edging (and I don't work 313 days a year!). Our edger is not a profit investment, it's a service to our customers investment, though over time it still pays for itself.

    I would say we edge 3 jobs a day x 250 days, so 750 jobs a year, saving maybe $10 per. $7,500.
    We also make our own Chemistrie in house compared to having our lab making them. $2,000
    And the real kicker, as NAICITPO said, FSV can be extremely inexpensive, and even super premium FSV are 30-50% less than the same product lab-surfaced. If only 20% (150) of the jobs I edge are premium FSV and I save $30 on each, $4,500.

    That's $14,000/year savings for modest edging. We got our lovely ICE-1000 and ME1200 in 2012 for $60,000 and I've put maybe $6,000 maintenance into it, so it paid for itself in 5 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    Break even isn't just about $$$$$$. The reason we edge in house is because we can produce a much better final product for the patient than a wholesale lab.
    Exactly true. We would edge even if it were at a loss, just for the ability to do things other can't. Thankfully, as long as you pay attention to how you're using your edger you don't lose financially either.

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    In our case, it would be to help turnaround time, patient satisfaction, and hopefully some profit?

    We are in the south. Change isn't welcomed and a lot of our patients REALLY like to use their current frames. so yeah, a lot of POF's and a lot of in house edging VSP uncuts anyways.

    My Doc is/was working a deal with vsp for the sv edging. he said he had talked to a few others that had figured out how to edge more than just SV, without actually saying how/what they had done exactly. i don't know the specifics. he felt you professionals might could drop some knowledge on him, from your experiences with said plan.


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    proshate the feedback

    Landon
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    Lies are told with a southern draw...
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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Saving on lab edging fees is just one of the financial benefits to edging in house. Having our own edger also allows us to order generic stock SV lens options (Synergy Crystal, Lighten Up, and even TechShield) instead of Crizal Everything, which massively cuts down on lens costs before edging is even factored in. I can also edge stock polarized lenses into any sunglass on demand, which is another quick revenue source.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  15. #15
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    reading this thread makes me so glad we stopped accepting VSP. I cant see how in office edging wouldnt be profitable, unless you are not taking advantage of stock lenses, lacking volume or having too many remakes.

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