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Thread: I need "insurance frames"

  1. #26
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    Not only that, but then you run into competing with yourself on whatever your profitable PALs are. And the attendant trouble-shooting. And the people saying "Well, can I get that lens, but pay extra to upgrade the frame...?" I think if you're going for budget, go with SV/FT, and worry about maybe adding a PAL after seeing how this does

  2. #27
    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    Casinos (i-Deal) are our go to budget option. We offer them as the second free pair for BOGOs or a discount on designer lines. They really do have a great selection and are just a durable as some of the fancy pants lines. Lots of color and size options and don't get disco too quick.

    Whenever I give pricing, I follow it with 'that's before discount.' If people say they are paying out of pocket, I let them know they then qualify for BOGO with a second BASIC pair, or they can upgrade it to have the same add-ons. Let them decide what they want on it.

    For the primary, I always go off of current add-ons 'would you like the new set to have all the same features?' 'are there any features you are looking to add?' that sort of approach.

    I will repeat it until the day I die- I am not a salesperson. I am an educator and provider of material benefits. I am not going to push anything, though given the Rx/ needs of the patient, I will definitely have opinions on upgrades.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    I got me some frames. I'm liking them. I got them from my lab's value package collection that they've scouted out for me. (Eight to Eighty, if anyone is interested.)

    Moving on to the harder part:

    Mervinek, you said "FT and SV only" and I am inclined that way as well. Although there are some pretty "affordable" in-house PAL designs, these days, and the "lab packages" include PALs, I wonder if it's too much "service" for such a low price? I don't want to trouble shoot/adjust/hear complaints.
    So in our case, the ones we make are for our pre-op patients who are not in these very long. We purposely make them super cheap because they will be tossing them once they have surgery. We only use discontinued frames for those (we seem to have a bunch due to the last optician that was here). I am considering a cheap line (non-discontinued) if we end up participating with a certain insurance. The insurance has patient co pays for progressives and most of those patients want only what is free so FT or SV only will really be what the majority will choose because... it's free. If we do get someone that wants a progressive, I don't think it will be a big deal because 1) it will be few and far between and 2) we will actually get some payment for it. The other thing is warranty charges. I (need to double check) believe that this insurance charges for a warranty of any kind. Again, most want free and don't pay for it. If there is a problem with the frame, we can then sell them a frame if they need it (pricing will be low because...cheap frame). If they pay for warranty, then that would cover costs. I'm more concerned about any insurance that doesn't allow you to charge extra for warranty or SRC etc. You just need to check your fine print to make sure you are not loosing money. If you are doing this for people to just have a "cheap" pair of glasses all on your own, then you can do whatever you want, like we do with our pre-op specs, it's just the insurance junk that you have to really work things out on your end. Maybe you'll profit $3? The point would be to just help out those that need it and be a convenience for you patient.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quince View Post
    I will repeat it until the day I die- I am not a salesperson. I am an educator and provider of material benefits. I am not going to push anything, though given the Rx/ needs of the patient, I will definitely have opinions on upgrades.
    +1 100% I am an optician. NOT A SALESPERSON!

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mervinek View Post
    +1 100% I am an optician. NOT A SALESPERSON!
    I don't think you have to be a salesperson, but there is a way to present things where you will make more money and you are still serving your customers' best interests. Maybe it is from my days in big box, but it still makes me cringe when people in my office say, "Did you want to order glasses today?" That's why they are here!! We sell an experience, we sell expertise, they can go online to buy glasses or go to a big box store and pay less. I would never ask if there are features people are looking to add, I ask what they want their glasses to do for them and then I make a recommendation based on that. I am not going to force anything down someone's throat but I will explain why I made that recommendation.

    There is psychology that goes into it as well. The most popular wine ordered at a restaurant is usually the 2nd least priced bottle. I use this piece of human intelligence almost every day. If you have a budget conscious customer you can give them a couple options after listening to what they want to use their glasses for. Most of the time they choose the option in the middle. You didn't even have to sell it, you just gave the customer options and they arrived at a decision that is mutually beneficial for everyone.

    The same applies to contacts. I had to have a conversation with a fill in doctor who was telling patients to only buy 3 months supply of contacts. I said look I know it's not your practice, but you have seen patients that wear their contacts too long right? You are setting the patient up for failure, they will use them longer than that if they don't have more. And if they are conscientious enough to follow your recommendations they are going to call us in 2 months and 3 weeks and 6 days and say I am on my last set of contact lenses and I need contacts yesterday! If we don't have anymore trials to help them out we are going to look like the bad guy. The customer isn't going to remember us in a positive light, they are just going to have that emotion when they needed help we couldn't help them.

    Maybe this sounds like big box jargon. Oh well, that's my 2 cents on selling.

  6. #31
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    Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by NAICITPO View Post
    I don't think you have to be a salesperson, but there is a way to present things where you will make more money and you are still serving your customers' best interests. Maybe it is from my days in big box, but it still makes me cringe when people in my office say, "Did you want to order glasses today?" That's why they are here!! We sell an experience, we sell expertise, they can go online to buy glasses or go to a big box store and pay less. I would never ask if there are features people are looking to add, I ask what they want their glasses to do for them and then I make a recommendation based on that. I am not going to force anything down someone's throat but I will explain why I made that recommendation.
    The same applies to contacts. I had to have a conversation with a fill in doctor who was telling patients to only buy 3 months supply of contacts. I said look I know it's not your practice, but you have seen patients that wear their contacts too long right? You are setting the patient up for failure, they will use them longer than that if they don't have more. And if they are conscientious enough to follow your recommendations they are going to call us in 2 months and 3 weeks and 6 days and say I am on my last set of contact lenses and I need contacts yesterday! If we don't have anymore trials to help them out we are going to look like the bad guy. The customer isn't going to remember us in a positive light, they are just going to have that emotion when they needed help we couldn't help them.

    Maybe this sounds like big box jargon. Oh well, that's my 2 cents on selling.
    I agree 100% with everything you said here. I also used to work for one of the big national chains and I found that I was always being told to keep my opinions about lens features and options to myself. Just sell. Don't put anyone in CR-39, even if they are a single parent loaning money from friends and family to pay bills and buy food. Oh, he gets a year's worth of contact lenses every time he updates his Rx? Make sure to ask him three times about what type of glasses he's willing to purchase.
    All of that salesman shark behavior is, in my opinion, the biggest reason why a customer takes their business elsewhere. That, and also the turnaround time if you don't have an on-site lab and can't offer IOF.
    I work at a very small independent optical now and I am proud of the fact that we never harass our patients into getting things they don't want or need.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kohlminekanary View Post
    I agree 100% with everything you said here. I also used to work for one of the big national chains and I found that I was always being told to keep my opinions about lens features and options to myself. Just sell. Don't put anyone in CR-39, even if they are a single parent loaning money from friends and family to pay bills and buy food. Oh, he gets a year's worth of contact lenses every time he updates his Rx? Make sure to ask him three times about what type of glasses he's willing to purchase.
    All of that salesman shark behavior is, in my opinion, the biggest reason why a customer takes their business elsewhere. That, and also the turnaround time if you don't have an on-site lab and can't offer IOF.
    I work at a very small independent optical now and I am proud of the fact that we never harass our patients into getting things they don't want or need.
    The practice I work at--we sell the crap out of things, but its not because we are told to sell. It just flows naturally from the doctor recommending from the chair and the opticians explaining the benefits. We are almost at 90% AR, our essilor rep tells us we are their best account by a lot. You don't have to harass people to sell. And selling is not a bad word! Selling by pressuring is bad. Here's the reason why I have AR on my glasses, here's the situations it helps me to see better. That is very different from saying you need to get AR if you use the computer!!

    Having a doctor recommend from the chair is lifechanging. I can tell whenever we have a fill in doctor because it makes my job harder.

  8. #33
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    New York Eye (formerly Hart) has frames starting at xxxx with their Enhance and Jubilee lines. They aren't top quality but they are so cheap that replacing the frames for a patient isn't an issue. We just ordered about 15 for this same reason to see how they do. So far so good. Smilen has cheap frames as well but I haven't worked with them in about 4-5 years.
    Last edited by Steve Machol; 06-04-2021 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Wholesale prices removed

  9. #34
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Just a reminder to not post wholesale prices in this public forum. Thanks.


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  10. #35
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    Sorry about that! I wasn't thinking!

  11. #36
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAICITPO View Post
    The practice I work at--we sell the crap out of things, but its not because we are told to sell. It just flows naturally from the doctor recommending from the chair and the opticians explaining the benefits. We are almost at 90% AR, our essilor rep tells us we are their best account by a lot. You don't have to harass people to sell. And selling is not a bad word! Selling by pressuring is bad. Here's the reason why I have AR on my glasses, here's the situations it helps me to see better. That is very different from saying you need to get AR if you use the computer!!

    Having a doctor recommend from the chair is lifechanging. I can tell whenever we have a fill in doctor because it makes my job harder.
    Nothing--literally nothing--will increase your AR sales more than doctors recommending it from the chair. There is no amount of training, no sales aids, and no carefully-worded pitch that has half the weight of a doctor's recommendation. Ditto for digital lens designs.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  12. #37
    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post
    Nothing--literally nothing--will increase your AR sales more than doctors recommending it from the chair. There is no amount of training, no sales aids, and no carefully-worded pitch that has half the weight of a doctor's recommendation. Ditto for digital lens designs.
    I absolutely agree- but have to ask, are you still selling conventional lenses? We have switched out our good-better-best tiers to accommodate for the advances in technology and simply don't offer anything other than digital at this point.

    This leads me into another tangent- and I apologize if we are now completely off topic from frames- but how do you guys handle people questioning KNOWN brand vs UNKNOWN: ie. Varilux vs Shamir or another comparable high end manufacturer that simply doesn't allot the same budget to advertising. I am always quick to let people know that if they request a specific brand of lens than I will oblige, but we have our recommendations for varying reasons. Just looking to see if anyone else has any tidbits that seem to appease those set on researching before they purchase.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

  13. #38
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post
    Nothing--literally nothing--will increase your AR sales more than doctors recommending it from the chair. There is no amount of training, no sales aids, and no carefully-worded pitch that has half the weight of a doctor's recommendation. Ditto for digital lens designs.

    ..With one caveat: When itemizing or selling “add-ons”, I agree, but I ran 3 locations that were cash only ( no glasses ins.) We “included” it in pricing(AR and digital). We keep pricing reasonable, let the patient know what all was included, it’s benefits then gave the price. Extremely rare for patients to want to “down grade”. ( It’s easier to down sell than up sell, and if you believe in the benefits of the most up to date technology, and you wear it yourself, it’s an easy recommendation.) Granted, our patient base was avg. to above avg. income and mostly educated.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post
    Nothing--literally nothing--will increase your AR sales more than doctors recommending it from the chair. There is no amount of training, no sales aids, and no carefully-worded pitch that has half the weight of a doctor's recommendation. Ditto for digital lens designs.
    Anything the OD recommends will increase sales. I had an OMD that told everyone to ask for the "Kodak lenses." He meant the Kodak Unique which at the time was newer and he wore them. Because he recommended it, we had patients ask for it ALL the time! Little old ladies with their walkers would just come in saying "I want the Kodak lenses!" It was an awesome time.

  15. #40
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quince View Post
    I absolutely agree- but have to ask, are you still selling conventional lenses? We have switched out our good-better-best tiers to accommodate for the advances in technology and simply don't offer anything other than digital at this point.
    For stock SV we use conventional lenses. For nearly all progressives we use free-form designs. The former helps pay for the latter.

    This leads me into another tangent- and I apologize if we are now completely off topic from frames- but how do you guys handle people questioning KNOWN brand vs UNKNOWN: ie. Varilux vs Shamir or another comparable high end manufacturer that simply doesn't allot the same budget to advertising. I am always quick to let people know that if they request a specific brand of lens than I will oblige, but we have our recommendations for varying reasons. Just looking to see if anyone else has any tidbits that seem to appease those set on researching before they purchase.
    We very very seldom have people request specific PAL designs, and when they do we either oblige or make educated upgrade recommendations. Digital PALs are so evenly reliable these days that design selection is often driven by insurance considerations.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  16. #41
    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post
    For stock SV we use conventional lenses. For nearly all progressives we use free-form designs. The former helps pay for the latter.

    We very very seldom have people request specific PAL designs, and when they do we either oblige or make educated upgrade recommendations. Digital PALs are so evenly reliable these days that design selection is often driven by insurance considerations.
    Ah, that makes much more sense. We are still mostly conventional for SV as well. I can see how a doctor's recommendation makes all the difference for that upgrade.

    And as for brands- my only hesitance is that I want to offer whatever high quality lens I can put ANY upgrade on. I can't stand the hassle of limitations when I know there are loopholes! That being said, I will order the branded lens if requested... just without all the cool​ options.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

  17. #42
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quince View Post
    And as for brands- my only hesitance is that I want to offer whatever high quality lens I can put ANY upgrade on. I can't stand the hassle of limitations when I know there are loopholes! That being said, I will order the branded lens if requested... just without all the cool​ options.
    Honestly, I feel like most of the memory I call on for work is a combination of "What PALs are at what price for each insurance" and "What lens options are available for each PAL." It's occasionally maddening.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  18. #43
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post
    Honestly, I feel like most of the memory I call on for work is a combination of "What PALs are at what price for each insurance" and "What lens options are available for each PAL." It's occasionally maddening.
    Apologies as a hijack takes place...

    From a few years ago (and a good thread overall) "Lens Recommendations" using the Magic 8 Ball!!!

    Originally Posted by Robert Martellaro
    ● It is certain Multiple pairs single vision
    ● It is decidedly so Same design
    ● Without a doubt POW compensated
    ● Yes definitely Essilor Definity
    ● You may rely on it Comfort
    ● As I see it, yes Zeiss Individual
    ● Most likely Shamir Autograph 3
    ● Outlook good Seiko Supernal
    ● Yes FT-28
    ● Signs point to yes In Touch
    ● Reply hazy try again Hoya Amplitude mini
    ● Ask again later Younger image
    ● Better not tell you now Cost of POW Compensated
    ● Cannot predict now Shamir Workspace
    ● Concentrate and ask again Essilor VIP
    ● Don't count on it Nalco Progressive
    ● My reply is no Essilor Panamic
    ● My sources say no Creation
    ● Outlook not so good Natural
    ● Very doubtful Unity

    https://www.optiboard.com/forums/sho...ght=Magic+Ball

  19. #44
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle fester View Post
    apologies as a hijack takes place...

    From a few years ago (and a good thread overall) "lens recommendations" using the magic 8 ball!!!

    originally posted by robert martellaro
    ● it is certain multiple pairs single vision
    ● it is decidedly so same design
    ● without a doubt pow compensated
    ● yes definitely essilor definity
    ● you may rely on it comfort
    ● as i see it, yes zeiss individual
    ● most likely shamir autograph 3
    ● outlook good seiko supernal
    ● yes ft-28
    ● signs point to yes in touch
    ● reply hazy try again hoya amplitude mini
    ● ask again later younger image
    ● better not tell you now cost of pow compensated
    ● cannot predict now shamir workspace
    ● concentrate and ask again essilor vip
    ● don't count on it nalco progressive
    ● my reply is no essilor panamic
    ● my sources say no creation
    ● outlook not so good natural
    ● very doubtful unity

    https://www.optiboard.com/forums/sho...ght=magic+ball
    lol
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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