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Thread: Customer: everyone says their qua....

  1. #1
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    Customer: everyone says their qua....

    Hello,

    When you tell a customer you provide good/premium/high quality lenses and they in return tell you “everyone says they use good quality” or “everyone uses good quality, I have to trust what you say” what is your response to this?

    It’s true that they have to trust what your saying but what would you say to cast away any doubts they may have.

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    OptiBoard Professional Michael I. Davis's Avatar
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    I have not had that response but I think a good reply would be " this is the same material that I use for myself" (substitute; parents, wife, etc if you do not wear glasses)
    Last edited by Michael I. Davis; 11-09-2020 at 07:22 PM.

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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael I. Davis View Post
    I have not had that response but I think a good reply would be " this is the same material that I use for myself" (substitute, parents, wife, etc it you do not wear glasses)
    I tell people that frequently.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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    "***hole."

    This is really what I would love to say some days...

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    I had a pt. one time tell me that it didn't matter where he purchased his glasses because, "You all have to work to the same ANSI standards." My reply was that all restaurants are inspected by the health department. Is dinner at McDonalds the same as at Ruth Chris Steakhouse? To his credit, he agreed.

  6. #6
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opticia_n View Post
    Hello,

    When you tell a customer you provide good/premium/high quality lenses and they in return tell you “everyone says they use good quality” or “everyone uses good quality, I have to trust what you say” what is your response to this?

    It’s true that they have to trust what your saying but what would you say to cast away any doubts they may have.
    Well, that's an honest consumer.

    If you want to, you can differentiate yourself, and they just invited you to do it!

    But it takes forethought, a good presentation, and time.

    But that is an investment in a great relationship, right?!

  7. #7
    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    I inform people that our recommendations are based on personal trials as well as patient trials. We do not sell products that we are unfamiliar with and are brutally honest about quality.

    Yes I will sell you that Tiffany but only after I've explain what a piece of junk it is. Once informed, it is now your educated decision.

    Another good tool is reminding them that filling an RX can be a process. I always let hesitant patients know that if they are unhappy, they don't need to chuck them in a drawer to mourn and move on. BRING THEM BACK! Sure I won't give you your money back but there are numerous other options.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

  8. #8
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    The client has a point. Much of what is done in optics is guesswork, for example how do you know which type of varifocal is best? What differences are there when lenses are at slightly the wrong angle / position? If precision is that important - what happens when lenses are in a badly adjusted frame? Ray tracing is fine, but how does a person respond to different aberrations? Lens form has an effect and fusion between different prescriptions is not addressed? Yes, experience will often give a good result, but can anyone honestly say it is the best possible? Do optical professionals understand the differences between manufacturers designs? Manufacturers only give limited information, and this is not comparable. If you look at filters / tints then the crossing of fingers is the only method used by many! Few understand even the most basic principles. So much non science is used - is it any wonder that online supply is going to become the norm (it would not be that difficult to get centration using image processing) - the only way to combat it is to become really competent, then onine is not able to be used - but the professions will need to change significantly. And will the public care? If it is a cent cheaper - probably not. But if they can't get the relevant level of care - then caveat emptor. Training needs to get much better - the easiest to bring in is stimulus control - this cannot be addressed by online suppliers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quince View Post
    I inform people that our recommendations are based on personal trials as well as patient trials. We do not sell products that we are unfamiliar with and are brutally honest about quality.

    Yes I will sell you that Tiffany but only after I've explain what a piece of junk it is. Once informed, it is now your educated decision.

    Another good tool is reminding them that filling an RX can be a process. I always let hesitant patients know that if they are unhappy, they don't need to chuck them in a drawer to mourn and move on. BRING THEM BACK! Sure I won't give you your money back but there are numerous other options.
    This is fair, I like how you mentioned you only make Recommendations based on data and feedback provided by other customers, that’s social proof, even though some will question that too.

    I would say educating the client, providing solutions to their pain points and offering them insurance on lenses if for any reason they don’t adjust to lens design, Rx or frame.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarralad2 View Post
    The client has a point. Much of what is done in optics is guesswork, for example how do you know which type of varifocal is best? What differences are there when lenses are at slightly the wrong angle / position? If precision is that important - what happens when lenses are in a badly adjusted frame? Ray tracing is fine, but how does a person respond to different aberrations? Lens form has an effect and fusion between different prescriptions is not addressed? Yes, experience will often give a good result, but can anyone honestly say it is the best possible? Do optical professionals understand the differences between manufacturers designs? Manufacturers only give limited information, and this is not comparable. If you look at filters / tints then the crossing of fingers is the only method used by many! Few understand even the most basic principles. So much non science is used - is it any wonder that online supply is going to become the norm (it would not be that difficult to get centration using image processing) - the only way to combat it is to become really competent, then onine is not able to be used - but the professions will need to change significantly. And will the public care? If it is a cent cheaper - probably not. But if they can't get the relevant level of care - then caveat emptor. Training needs to get much better - the easiest to bring in is stimulus control - this cannot be addressed by online suppliers.
    this is deep, I think taking care of the customer, admitting error and rectifying the problem without the customer having to pay more money would solve most of the above issues and of course seeking technical help from lab experts.

  11. #11
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    Better if you were given information from the manufacturers - but they don't give info out that can allow you to make valid comparisons between lenses. In the old days you could do ray tracing through simple lenses, now its not possible. So the manufacturers are in control, you just have to hope. Generally more expensive lenses are better in the primary position although aberration tolerance is never considered, but i have never seen off centre comparisons, angular changes etc. The optical professions are kept ignorant, so they cannot make judgements made on knowledge

  12. #12
    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarralad2 View Post
    Better if you were given information from the manufacturers - but they don't give info out that can allow you to make valid comparisons between lenses. In the old days you could do ray tracing through simple lenses, now its not possible. So the manufacturers are in control, you just have to hope. Generally more expensive lenses are better in the primary position although aberration tolerance is never considered, but i have never seen off centre comparisons, angular changes etc. The optical professions are kept ignorant, so they cannot make judgements made on knowledge
    Even though we don't have access to their programming, we don't have to be left completely in the dark. I understand your point that we can't do it on a paper level, which certainly would make things easier, but we can test the product before selling it, if we decide to.

    I've used family members with extreme or challenging RXs to test some of the products I cannot test myself and been objective as I can with the products I can. The right lab will allow for proper testing or the manufacturer rep will do the same if they have a credible product.

    That being said, even with the mindset of being objective, unless you have a mass study, the individual result will vary. And lenses aside, it would take a solid 2-3 years to properly test coating or frame quality.

    As a community, it has been amazingly beneficial to be able to share product reviews!
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter lensmanmd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opticia_n View Post
    Hello,

    When you tell a customer you provide good/premium/high quality lenses and they in return tell you “everyone says they use good quality” or “everyone uses good quality, I have to trust what you say” what is your response to this?

    It’s true that they have to trust what your saying but what would you say to cast away any doubts they may have.
    True and not true.
    ANSI is certainly in effect, but there are differences in lens quality.
    Some labs use seconds to save money. Sure, the finished product may meet ANSI, but is that lens truly first quality? Then there are those that use uncoated lenses and “dip” them in heated “SRC Bath”, the kind that sits in the tint tank, and call it scratch resistant. SMH.
    I bend light. That is what I do.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lensmanmd View Post
    True and not true.
    ANSI is certainly in effect, but there are differences in lens quality.
    Some labs use seconds to save money. Sure, the finished product may meet ANSI, but is that lens truly first quality? Then there are those that use uncoated lenses and “dip” them in heated “SRC Bath”, the kind that sits in the tint tank, and call it scratch resistant. SMH.
    When I worked at an AO branch lab, we had clear glass lens blanks in both Masterpiece and Custom S. While they looked alike, after surfacing the Custom S would be within tolerance. The Masterpiece was much more likely to be dead smack on the money. Maybe one of the Southbridge alumni can shed more light on the differences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by waynegilpin View Post
    When I worked at an AO branch lab, we had clear glass lens blanks in both Masterpiece and Custom S. While they looked alike, after surfacing the Custom S would be within tolerance. The Masterpiece was much more likely to be dead smack on the money. Maybe one of the Southbridge alumni can shed more light on the differences.
    That is a rather interesting difference. I'd be interested in hearing why that is as well.

  16. #16
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    I'd take that as an opportunity to explain how you provide a better service and value. Explain to them that your service doesnt end after they walk out the door with a new pair of glasses...you are available for them anytime they need an adjustment or repair or have any other issue.

  17. #17
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    In 1955 I started working at "The AO in Southbridge" after high school. Just about everyone in Central Massachusetts either worked there or had family members working there. Initially, as a 16 years old part timer I was what they called a "spare Hand" and had the opportunite to work all over the place. I did package a million lenses in either envelopes or boxes and really cant comment on their "quality" although there were some lenses refered to as "run of the block" and "bats" that went into plain, unmarked containers with just the power on the envelope. Rumor had it that these lenses were shipped to B&L or Shuron Continental.

    AO was a good place to work. Lotsa stories. PM me.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    In 1955 I started working at "The AO in Southbridge" after high school. Just about everyone in Central Massachusetts either worked there or had family members working there. Initially, as a 16 years old part timer I was what they called a "spare Hand" and had the opportunite to work all over the place. I did package a million lenses in either envelopes or boxes and really cant comment on their "quality" although there were some lenses refered to as "run of the block" and "bats" that went into plain, unmarked containers with just the power on the envelope. Rumor had it that these lenses were shipped to B&L or Shuron Continental.

    AO was a good place to work. Lotsa stories. PM me.
    PM sent Dick

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quince View Post
    I inform people that our recommendations are based on personal trials as well as patient trials. We do not sell products that we are unfamiliar with and are brutally honest about quality.

    Yes I will sell you that Tiffany but only after I've explain what a piece of junk it is. Once informed, it is now your educated decision.

    Another good tool is reminding them that filling an RX can be a process. I always let hesitant patients know that if they are unhappy, they don't need to chuck them in a drawer to mourn and move on. BRING THEM BACK! Sure I won't give you your money back but there are numerous other options.
    +1 I ALWAYS educate my patient and let them make the best decision for themselves!

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