To become licensed in Florida?

**Texas Ranger** · 05-08-2003, 10:41 AM

Laurie, you may be the person to enlighten me.? I have a personal friend, is ABO Certified, has a bachelor's degree, moved to Florida, has not become licensed there, but works for a doctor's optical shop. he is confused, says after 2 years, has not been put in to "apprentice", is not close to an opticianry school, and doesn't fit contact lenses and likely never will; so what does this person with 7 years experience do to become licensed? Is CL competency required? or is it a seperate issue? Can they sit for the licensing exam, being educated, certified and experienced? Do they have to go through the 'apprentice program' like they are just starting from the beginning? if so, it's pretty strange...if this is how the licensing works in Florida, why would any optician support such a farce? And under what circumstances can he work without being supervised by a licensed optician?

**Jeff Trail** · 05-08-2003, 11:47 AM

TR,

You can go about sitting for the FL. states by be an 1) being and apprentice that IS signed up through the state sponsorship. 2) got the A.S. degree, which by the way you do NOT have to be near the school they do it via the web at H.C.C.. OR you cam from a non lic. state but can prove a certian amount of years experience. OR a Lic. state and you want to transfer your Lic.
You need to sit for the ABO (which he already has) as well as the NCLE than you sit for the state board on top of that. There are some great tape series to help him through the NCLE if he does not want to take the classes offered at H.C.C. and review courses.
In FL. if you are not working under the OD or OMD's Lic. than a Lic. optician must be PRESENT at all times for anything to be done legally.. you adjust a frame in this state (and get caught) in a store with no Lic. person there you just committed a felony in this state!!
If you are working for an OD or OMD you fall under a totally different board and as long as the Doc is in a certian area you can dispense legelly, say if you were in a sat. office of this OD.
It is actually pretty hard to get a Lic. in this state without jumping through a lot of hoops.. one of my accounts sits on the state board and I would be happy to give you his # if you want.
In FL. we are required to have 3 Lic. if you want to be an optician, the ABO, NCLE and than the state Lic. (which is $800 to sit for) .... A lot will depend on where he got that "experience" and if it was in a Lic. state or not it can get very complicated.. he can also request a hearing with the state board if he thinks he is close to meeting the requirements and try to fight his way through. A lot of paper work will be involved and getting previous experience documented in another state.
IF he is caught in the Florida proverbial "crack" like I was where I owned two stores but did not spend the 40 hours in either but most of my time in the lab and was not sponsored I went through Laurie's (well Bill is the big cheese) program over in Tampa..
I'll let you in on one thing it can get VERY frustrating dealing with the State board, that is a given.

Jeff "been there done that" Trail

**Texas Ranger** · 05-08-2003, 02:04 PM

Jeff, thanks for the feedback; I just got the info. off of this web page, http://www9.myflorida.com/mqa/optici...o_lic_req.html this was very enlightening; I was rather 'stunned' about all the mess it is over there. no wonder those"licensed" guys have such a pride issue, they've been dragged through the barnyard, and come out smelling like a rose. I'd be proud too. I would think that I like Minnesota's dual licensing (is this still so?) where the CL folks are licensed seperately. and if you want to do both, you get to have two licenses, but at least that is fair; I think you can be excellant in each area, and you may 'specialize' in one or the other, so why be penalized for that? the licensing seems highly restrictive to become licensed. while at the same time, removing competency from opticianry requirements of eye doctor owned dispensaries. So, I guess I 'll advise my friend that if he was ignorant enouff to leave the republic, it's his problem! bless his heart, he's stepped off in to it, and it seems a messy barnyard! one other question, my friend who works in a doctor's shop, can he work a saturday schedule, where both the licensed optician and the doctors are off; he is schedule by his employer to do so, and likely he be commiting a "felony" if he does dispense eyewear, is that the situation, since there would be no "direct supervision"? I think my friend is being "used" and asked to be in serious legal liability.
also, Jeff I noticed that you also have to acquire a "store permit" to own a shop. how complex is that? here in Tx, we just have to have an "occupancy permit from the city we're in , and a "sales tax" permit from the state(republic). there is no "Board", thank you Lord! just when you've finished counting your blessings, you find something to be thankful for that you hadn't even considered. thanks Jeff for helping me appreciate freedom in a unique way.

**Laurie** · 05-08-2003, 04:23 PM

Hi TR,

Hi Jeff,

Well, Jeff beat me to it...I see that you have the answers to your questions. (we've been swamped with final exams so I have not been here too much over the past week!)

You are correct in that your friend is not allowed to dispense on saturdays when the doc or licensed optician is off site.

: )

have a great weekend, and happy mother's day to your sweethearts!

Laurie

**Jeff Trail** · 05-08-2003, 10:55 PM

TR,

Told you Florida was TOUGH :) ..and getting that $100 permit is sort of a new thing (couple years old) what it did is when they passed all these laws (where about everything can be turned into a felony) instead of a "smack"on the wrist, they had to have this permit thing as a leverage to apply the law.. more back room politics in my opinion...
You said it was a "doctor owned store" do you mean it is a dispensery in an OD's office? .. if that is the case Laurie read your post a little to fast (ok she is in finals we can over look it :)) IF he is working under the OD's State medical lic. than these rules or reg's you read do NOT apply to him.. if it is a "retail" store..you bet your bippy he can be ARRESTED if he gets caught!!.. can you believe that? I have a friend who has been in optics for 35 years... all this "lic." stuff came up long after he had been around and he could have been grandfathered in.. but he is a bit of a whack-a-doo and goes on about "goverment this and that" (just say no to the IRS guy as well

) ..they passed the new law's, plus the store permit stuff and before they could give him warning after warning and told him he would "never" get his lic. .. more or less a lecture, but after this new stuff... they now can charge him with a felony for dispensing without a lic., he looked at an RX, also a felony "interpretting a written medical something or another".. yep he got 30 days in JAIL!!!!!!!! plus a fine and shut his store down after being in the same place for over 20 years..
How is that for TOUGH laws for opticians? BTW if your friend is working Sat.'s it is NOT him that would be in trouble if their is a Lic. optician there and has the Lic. on the wall THEY are responsible.. he gets nailed.. it's the optican that gets the big smack!!.. Sometimes I think they OVER do it in FL. or restricting opticals and are going to end up killing the Lic. because of this junk..
One thing about it, you are supposed to know the regulations and rules, ignorence is not an excuse when getting caught :-)
Trying to "understand" the mixed up set of rules is another thing, BTW part of the "state" exam is rules and regs :), they change teh stuff so often half the questions on the test are wrong.. we do have some problems brewing in this state that is for sure.. and at $800 a pop, I think they are destroying the field here...just my opinion though :)

Jeff "welcome to my heII" Trail

**wmcdonald** · 05-09-2003, 08:13 AM

Texas Ranger wrote that he preferred this format. I must say that I understand your feelings, but unfortunately dual licensing is the WORST thing that ever happened to Opticians. It is like physicians who practice a particular specialty only learning about that part of the body. We can and do include contact lenses in our practices in many states and to carry the title Optician, a person should be well versed in all aspects of the profession, not just a particular part. That has been one of our weakest points. I know it seems redundant to have to learn someting that you may not want to do in the long run, but is a part of Opticianry and should be a part of the training and education process. Yes, states like Florida and my own North Carolina are proud of our licensing process. I am pleased you were able to see the process in a strong Opticinary state first hand.

**Texas Ranger** · 05-09-2003, 10:19 AM

WM. I can see the point of including Contact Lens in the "educational curriculm, when someone is younger and learning the profession of opticianry, say working on an AS at an accredited optical school, such as Laurie's, but someone like myself, or my Florida friend, who grew up in the business, and other than a "basic" orientation to CL, were pretty much trained in one field or the other, not both, so 35 years later, we could not be licensed in Florida, and I guess NC; yes, I think I'm teachable enough to kearn enough to pass the NCLE exam; but should I be licensed to fit CL, just because I could learn to pass the exam? I think that person would be more of a "risk" to society than an asset. here, it would be impossible to earn a living fitting CLs. the money is all in the exam/trial fitting fees, CL are practically given away. the comparison to MD is not a fair one, a doctor specializes only after medical school, because he must know how his specialty relates to the whole body. if I have a glasses pt, that wear CLs, other than knowing that they wear CLs, do I need to know k readings and base curves , etc, of the cLs to fit them with a pair of glasses for when they aren't wearing the CLs? I have just about zero chance of actually fitting the pts cls. since I was 18, i've been an Optician, and I can count on one hand the number of opticians that I know personally that fit cls and glasses. the prevailing theory back 35 years ago, was that "pick one or the other, but don't do both"...a basic knowledge of all aspects of the field is great, requiring an in depth knowledge of a field you don't work in to have the right to work is just plain politically restrictive. a better example would be that if you were a cl tech, and in order to have a license, you were required to take the exam to be competent in fitting hearing aids...not really a good example but just as useful....
Jeff, I'll check with my friend, but I think that the doctor's shop is retail, and not in the doctor's office, and under a different name...

**Jeff Trail** · 05-09-2003, 10:48 AM

TR,

If you do find out the OD is an independant and not associated to the retail store and the want him to work Sat. with no optician on site than yes he is commiting a felony in the state of Florida, as well as the optician who has his/her Lic. on the wall that is letting this happen has put that lic up to be revoked as well. Chances are your bud being a non-lic. person would most likely get fined only if caught once and the optician would have a felony charged against them. Even if it is the first infraction.
Check out on here how a chain that tried these same tricks got nailed and the fine was in the $100's of thousands :-) Eye Glass World got caught doing this a couple of times.
Now might as well be honest I do NOT know any optical that is 100% compliant all the time, and the chances of getting caught are fairly slim, with just a hand full of inspectors taking care of the whole state, but still there is always the chance, especially if you had or have an unsatisfied customer who filed a complaint.
It is sort of a catch22, he could refuse to work and get fired.. or if he signed up for sponsorship and gets caught he can NEVER get his FL. Lic. and once you sign up than he falls under the same state guidelines and he would be committing a felony :-)
Like I said we have TOUGH rules here in FL. sometimes it's great sometimes it's not.. I just see them trying to kill the field with over pricing the fee's.. you consider you drop $130 for the ABO, $130 for the NCLE and $800 for the FL. exam...and than C.E hours on top of that? ...The OD teting for the state medical board is only $960 or so...anyone see a problem here with trying to get new blood into the field? :)

Jeff "oh what a tangled web we weave" Trail

**wmcdonald** · 05-09-2003, 11:22 AM

TR:
I look more at the big picture. I want all Opticians to have similar training and education. That is the only way to survive, much less advance ourselves. If we do not, then we will remain in the fractured state we find ourselves currently. In my state, there has always been a CL requirement. just because you (not you personally, but any Optician) don't want to fit CLs should not eliminate the requirement to learn that portion of what an Optician does. I have stated many times that Opticians need to be re-defined. What are we and what do we do (or want to do)? What does the future hold? I am curently doing some research in that area and will include you if you are interested.

Best regards,
Warren

**Psalls** · 08-15-2003, 02:12 PM

It is not a felony to dispense eyewear without a license. The Board will request the Department of Health to enter a cease and desist order. Then you (the licensed Optician) will get a reprimand to probation of the license, and a fine ranging from $250 - $ 500, or refusal to certify an application for licensure. The only felony in Fl is if you sell prescription optical devises without a valid RX. Eyewear or contact lenses. Also, Opticians in Florida don't have to be members of the ABO or NCLE, they just have to pass the exams before they can sit for the state boards. You do not have to stay a member.

**gpw_ww** · 08-15-2003, 03:00 PM

I could be wrong about this, but wasn't it brother Gov. Jeb Bush in florida who almost deleted the licensing budget from the state budget a year or two ago?

**Judy Canty** · 08-18-2003, 08:20 AM

The ABO and NCLE are certifying bodies. They have no "membership". Organizations you join are OAA, NAO and your state opticians association.

**gpw_ww** · 08-18-2003, 09:15 AM

OK...wasn't it the state licensing body that was almost deleted?

**Psalls** · 08-18-2003, 03:54 PM

gpw,
Yes, it was Governor Bush who asked the DOH to come up with recommendations on how to cut the fat from the budget. The Board of Opticianry along with a handfull of other professions was put on the chopping block. But, thanks to the efforts of the POF it was shot down. What does that have to do with this thread?