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Thread: VSP vs. Essilor Luxottica

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    Master Jedi King of the Lab's Avatar
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    VSP vs. Essilor Luxottica

    Not sure if you all have seen this yet, so here you go..

    https://www.justthefactsvsp.com/
    Erik Zuniga, ABOC.

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    Ya I saw that a little while ago. September 1 is almost here

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    There is a lot of sugar in the koolaid these days, no matter the flavor. I can't believe any right minded individual would trust anything either of these companies say, let alone do business with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    There is a lot of sugar in the koolaid these days, no matter the flavor. I can't believe any right minded individual would trust anything either of these companies say, let alone do business with them.
    One thing that drives me nuts is when companies dig other companies (by name). Not that I have love for EssilorLuxottica, but just tell me what makes you great. Tell me why I should be using you and your product. Don't compare to other specific companies. It's unprofessional. I think that way with my labs, and reps too. I use a local lab. A few years ago another lab who is also in my state came around to offices. They were professional and polite. Said they know a lot of offices are using the local lab, but if we were considering changing, here is their information and some facts about them. They didn't put down the local lab. A while later another lab rep came by from another company and her whole speech was about how awful our local lab was. Not one word about her own lab! Forget it. It just makes you look like trash. Anyway... this VSP/EssilorLuxottica comparison made me think of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mervinek View Post
    One thing that drives me nuts is when companies dig other companies (by name). Not that I have love for EssilorLuxottica, but just tell me what makes you great. Tell me why I should be using you and your product. Don't compare to other specific companies. It's unprofessional. I think that way with my labs, and reps too. I use a local lab. A few years ago another lab who is also in my state came around to offices. They were professional and polite. Said they know a lot of offices are using the local lab, but if we were considering changing, here is their information and some facts about them. They didn't put down the local lab. A while later another lab rep came by from another company and her whole speech was about how awful our local lab was. Not one word about her own lab! Forget it. It just makes you look like trash. Anyway... this VSP/EssilorLuxottica comparison made me think of that.
    I think there's definitely a place for differentiating between your products/services and a competitor's, but just harshing on the other guy is definitely sloppy and uncool.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    There is a lot of sugar in the koolaid these days, no matter the flavor. I can't believe any right minded individual would trust anything either of these companies say, let alone do business with them.
    I know!

    When will the employers stop buying that crap?

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    I'm continually impressed with the maturity level of the VSP-EyeMed death match.

    Not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    I know!

    When will the employers stop buying that crap?
    If they haven't stopped by now, I can't imagine there is any hope of saving them.

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    Master Jedi King of the Lab's Avatar
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    So I spoke with someone today, Essilor will be paying us the other 50% of our reimbursement through their Essilor rewards program via check or direct deposit.

    i.e. O category Essilor pays $65.00 and after Sept 1st, reimbursement will be only $32.50. Big E pays the diff.

    Same goes for coatings and transitions.
    Erik Zuniga, ABOC.

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Wow, that's big news.

    So, what you're saying is...

    ...what you're trying to tell us is...

    ...essilux is making up the difference in the shafting VSP gives us for using essilux lenses?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Wow, that's big news.

    So, what you're saying is...

    ...what you're trying to tell us is...

    ...essilux is making up the difference in the shafting VSP gives us for using essilux lenses?
    Sound to me like Essilux has been overcharging for their lenses for so long, that they have money to drop from the rooftops to make sure the minions stay in line.

    Seriously though,

    VSP obviously wanted more providers using specific products(not Essilux). Provider is still getting the same money, half from VSP and half from Essilux, so no real incentive to change yet.

    VSP is making more money on every job, but didn't get their end goal of more patients sucked into their preferred products. So I expect some new scheme to replace or augment this one. VSP drops Essilux products? That might be too bold for this early in the poo flingin' game. Longer turn around for Essilux product ordered through VSP? Maybe. Higher patient copays(or whatever they call them) for Essilux products. Whatever it is I fully expect VSP to slowly keep trying to find ways to move more of their customers into their preferred products.

    Essilux is now paying to keep customers. The Beast will not tolerate this. Aggressively go after corporations that are using VSP for their employees and try to switch them to Eyemed? They are already paying for customers, might as well try to use that money to instead lock them into their own plan. Raise click fees to make up for lost money? Aggressive marketing direct to the public and make their "best" lenses only available through select providers(non-VSP)?

    One scenario could benefit a VSP provider, but I doubt it happens. Cutting Essilux reimbursement rates obviously didn't work. They could instead raise reimbursement rates for their preferred products. I know, crazy right? But it would have the same effect they were going for here, and Essilux couldn't do anything about it. Unless they want to keep paying providers more and more to use someone else's lenses through their rewards program.

    Could Essilor ever buy VSP?

    As someone who gets to watch from the sidelines, I hope it is a bloody back and forth war, filled with ridiculous headlines. I feel sorry for the opticians who don't have a choice in the matter.

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Kwill, whoever you are, I would not want to be on the receiving end of any of your competitive strategies.

    You should be an evil CEO or something.

    Props.

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    September 1st is almost here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    SOne scenario could benefit a VSP provider, but I doubt it happens. Cutting Essilux reimbursement rates obviously didn't work. They could instead raise reimbursement rates for their preferred products. I know, crazy right? But it would have the same effect they were going for here, and Essilux couldn't do anything about it. Unless they want to keep paying providers more and more to use someone else's lenses through their rewards program.
    Actually that is exactly what VSP had been doing for the last 5 years or so, it wasn't enough so they are doing this now - much of the reason is the massive waste of money they are realizing the purchase of Visionworks has been (even pre viral economic collapse). How VSP gets away with the "not for profit" label is beyond me, they have some good lawyers who know how to dot their i's and cross their t's and seperate the money very very carefully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    ... How VSP gets away with the "not for profit" label is beyond me...
    I believe the FTC has already slapped them with fines and revoked tax-exempt status for them after they were sitting on something like +/- 2B in revenue. More than once if memory serves? Have they somehow weaseled their way back into the slimy ranks of tax avoiding corporations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    I believe the FTC has already slapped them with fines and revoked tax-exempt status for them after they were sitting on something like +/- 2B in revenue. More than once if memory serves? Have they somehow weaseled their way back into the slimy ranks of tax avoiding corporations?
    Its a fine line they draw between their "non-profit" and for profit arms. I'm sure its all a house of cards with finely drawn lines between them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    Actually that is exactly what VSP had been doing for the last 5 years or so, it wasn't enough so they are doing this now - much of the reason is the massive waste of money they are realizing the purchase of Visionworks has been (even pre viral economic collapse). How VSP gets away with the "not for profit" label is beyond me, they have some good lawyers who know how to dot their i's and cross their t's and seperate the money very very carefully.
    I knew they were paying out more for their preferred products comparatively. But I just assumed they were paying less for non-preferred not actually raising reimbursements for the preferred products.

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    So you understand a non profit organization can make as money as they can their non taxable status comes from their organizing charter. One of the covenants is that it was organized for the public good.
    If Essilor can give rebates on VSP orders they should just give them on all the orders. Your non vsp patients are supporting those on VSP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lensman11 View Post
    So you understand a non profit organization can make as money as they can their non taxable status comes from their organizing charter.
    Well you can make as much money as you want, sure. But you will have your non-profit status revoked if your operations do not reflect your non-profit filing, as VSP's was. You can't just declare you are a non-profit, act as a for profit and pay executives huge bonuses. Well, you can until someone catches you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    I knew they were paying out more for their preferred products comparatively. But I just assumed they were paying less for non-preferred not actually raising reimbursements for the preferred products.
    They definitely were raising reimbursements (though they called it a "savings" it was extra money added to the check. And that extra money was doubled if you bought enough of their mar**** frames also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King of the Lab View Post
    So I spoke with someone today, Essilor will be paying us the other 50% of our reimbursement through their Essilor rewards program via check or direct deposit.

    i.e. O category Essilor pays $65.00 and after Sept 1st, reimbursement will be only $32.50. Big E pays the diff.

    Same goes for coatings and transitions.
    Seems like this debacle has been a moving target. Is this still true now that Sept 1 has arrived?

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    Seems like this debacle has been a moving target. Is this still true now that Sept 1 has arrived?
    The change in VSP reimbursement has been postponed until January 1, 2021.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grudyfan13 View Post
    The change in VSP reimbursement has been postponed until January 1, 2021.

    Allow me to rephrase the question. Is Essilor still planning to make up the difference as was said below:


    Essilor will be paying us the other 50% of our reimbursement through their Essilor rewards program via check or direct deposit.

    i.e. O category Essilor pays $65.00 and after Sept 1st, reimbursement will be only $32.50. Big E pays the diff.

    Same goes for coatings and transitions.

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    I have yet to find that information out.
    Erik Zuniga, ABOC.

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