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Thread: Eyezen +4

  1. #1
    OptiBoard Apprentice Miss Peepers's Avatar
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    Confused Eyezen +4

    Good day!
    There are no specifics online for Eyezen +4, but I know they exist, because I dispense them quite often! Usually, the bump up ends up being between +1.00 and +1.10. I'm wondering if anyone knows exactly what it should be? I think the Eyezen +3 is supposed to be +.87.
    Thanks!!
    Have a great day!

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    Per the updated literature I just received from my rep today. The Eyezen+ 4 has a bump of +1.10. Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iaxbbcp View Post
    Per the updated literature I just received from my rep today. The Eyezen+ 4 has a bump of +1.10. Hope this helps.
    Is it true that opticians can legally fulfill a single vision prescription with EyeZen's?

    I mean, that looks like a change in the OD's prescription to me.

    But, legally, it seems that the optician is indeed providing the lens the OD asked for, since EyeZen is marketed as a single vision lens, even though it is clearly a progressive lens. Is this one of those cases where everybody is operating within their legal boundaries but the outcome was not supposed to be legal (opticians changing prescriptions)?
    Vitor Pamplona
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    EyeZen is marketed as a single vision lens, even though it is clearly a progressive lens.
    Is it? I don't think anti-fatigue lenses, regardless of manufacturer, progress from a distance to intermediate to reading prescription with marginal astigmatism away from the progressive corridor. The best analogue would be that anti-fatigue lenses are like a blended bifocal with a lower add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grudyfan13 View Post
    Is it?
    Essilor's slogan is literally: EYEZEN™+ FOR ENHANCED SINGLE VISION

    It's "Single Vision" on their system: http://www.eyezenpro.com/images/Eyez...ring_Guide.pdf

    You don't insert the add power into their form. In fact, most materials don't even advertise the add power. Last time I saw their packaging, they have Sph and Cyl, but no mention to progressive or add powers on the blanks. Which seems to suggest that the optician is following the label (and thus the doctor's request) while selling a more expensive progressive lens.

    My question is Why stop there? Why don't you make a "Light Myopia" collection where all powers are shifted 0.5D from the labeled power. In that way, the optician can chose to give what the OD prescribed or 0.5D less. They can do that for astigmatism. Your doctor is suggesting -1D in cyl, but "Essilor's **** Astigmatism" collection has only the spherical equivalent of the same SPH, CYL labels your doctor requested.
    Last edited by vfpamp; 02-25-2020 at 02:45 PM.
    Vitor Pamplona
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    Essilor's slogan is literally: EYEZEN™+ FOR ENHANCED SINGLE VISION
    Okay, but I'm failing to see how this has anything to do with EYEZEN+ being 'clearly' a progressive. I can understand your frustration in how opticians could be entering the wild west of shooting anti-fatigue options from the hip (You're 12, you get a 0! You're 36, you get a 3!) based off no definitive advice from ODs or MDs. Though context can be misconstrued via the written word, I'm sensing a bit of frustration with Essilor specifically. Is that accurate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by grudyfan13 View Post
    Okay, but I'm failing to see how this has anything to do with EYEZEN+ being 'clearly' a progressive.
    It is a progressive lens. No question about it. Any lensometer will tell you that. When you ask Essilor for the specifics, they will give you the add powers. So, it's a progressive lens being sold as single vision :)

    Quote Originally Posted by grudyfan13 View Post
    I can understand your frustration in how opticians could be entering the wild west of shooting anti-fatigue options from the hip (You're 12, you get a 0! You're 36, you get a 3!) based off no definitive advice from ODs or MDs. Though context can be misconstrued via the written word, I'm sensing a bit of frustration with Essilor specifically. Is that accurate?
    Not really. If it was my choice, signed eyeglasses prescriptions wouldn't even exist. But assuming where we stand on the regs/board guidance, lens manufacturers could potentially bypass the entire medical community (and I think they are). Thus my original question.

    Before @drk comes in:
    - I didn't say other OD prescriptions wouldn't exist.
    - I didn't say contact lenses prescriptions wouldn't exist.
    - I didn't say the eye exam wouldn't exist.
    - I didn't say ODs wouldn't exist.
    - I didn't say opticians wouldn't exist.
    - I said the idea of a prescription for glasses wouldn't exist. After all, why would anyone be liable for a signed truth if there isn't a ground truth?
    Last edited by vfpamp; 02-25-2020 at 04:54 PM.
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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vfpamp View Post
    It is a progressive lens. No question about it. Any lensometer will tell you that. When you ask Essilor for the specifics, they will give you the add powers. So, it's a progressive lens being sold as single vision
    And yet, if I try to get VSP to pay for an Eyezen+3 or 4 lens with a plano distance power, they will reject it.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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    OptiBoard Apprentice Miss Peepers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post
    And yet, if I try to get VSP to pay for an Eyezen+3 or 4 lens with a plano distance power, they will reject it.
    --Yepper, and Davis calls it an Intermediate Single Vision lens, and only charges $30 extra. I was doing the Sola Access often, but the new Davis portal doesn't allow for that anymore. The Eyezen has been working out well as a replacement.
    Am I wrong in thinking that since these lenses probably don't need prism thinning like regular progressives, the pt ends up with a wider field of vision overall?
    Have a great day!

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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Peepers View Post
    --Yepper, and Davis calls it an Intermediate Single Vision lens, and only charges $30 extra. I was doing the Sola Access often, but the new Davis portal doesn't allow for that anymore. The Eyezen has been working out well as a replacement.
    Am I wrong in thinking that since these lenses probably don't need prism thinning like regular progressives, the pt ends up with a wider field of vision overall?
    I'm sure they have a much wider FOV, but I couldn't say whether it's the result of no prism thinning or just the lower add power.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Peepers View Post
    Am I wrong in thinking that since these lenses probably don't need prism thinning like regular progressives, the pt ends up with a wider field of vision overall?
    How are these things related?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    How are these things related?
    I think Peepers used the wrong word. The field of view is the same, but the acceptance of the glasses can go down. For instance, certain reflections may be more noticeable with stronger thinnings.

    Thinning power is proportional to the add power. The stronger the add power, the more distinct top and bottom are, requiring more prism to equalize.

    Prism-thinning for of up to 2 prism diopters goes undetected but 100% of patients reject over 4 prism diopters on thinning.

    So, because is such a small add, prism thinning is not required, and thus does not create weird ghosts, increasing the acceptability of the lens as compared to a regular progressive.
    Vitor Pamplona
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  13. #13
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    (Disclaimer - Essilor employee)
    Optically speaking, an Eyezen+ does share some of the characteristics of a progressive lens. Functionally speaking, it is not a progressive lens.

    Optically, a progressive addition lens has two verifiable powers: a distance power (primary), and an addition that provides near power (secondary).
    Eyezen+ lenses have a single verifiable power- which corresponds to the SV Rx provided by a eye care practitioner. There is no verifiable "near power."
    That said, there is plus power in the bottom of the lens (FYI, you should expect to find the following):
    Eyezen+ 0 = 0D
    Eyezen+ 1 = +0.40D
    Eyezen+ 2 = +0.60D
    Eyezen+ 3 = +0.85D
    Eyezen+ 4 = +1.10D

    "So, if the only difference is you don't specify a verifiable near power, isn't the lens basically a progressive lens?" To which I would answer "No."
    (You can agree with that answer or not- everyone is entitled to their own perspective.)
    Here's why an Eyezen+ lens is not a progressive addition lens. Functionally, a progressive addition lens replaces accommodation for a presbyopic eye. Without the ADD power, that eye cannot focus on near objects. Therefore, there is a VERY specific and identifiable "near zone" in the lens (defined by the area of the lens through which the eye can focus on near objects).
    For a non-presbyope wearing an Eyezen+ lens, there is no identifiable "near zone," because the eye can focus at near through ANY part of the lens (because it still has the ability to accommodate). Basically, the lens is relieving- not replacing- accommodation.

    You might call that a fine distinction (and perhaps it is), but it makes a LOT of difference to a lens designer and in the design of the finished lens. For example, the point at which plus power in an Eyezen+ lens begins to appear is 4mm below the FRP of the lens (which means when the eye looks through the FRP, it is receiving exactly the SV Rx prescribed by the practitioner). No progressive on the planet is going to have an ADD power that starts 4mm below FRP (because the wearer of a PAL requires ADD power to focus at near, so you have to keep that ADD power higher up in the lens), but in an enhanced SV lens the wearer does not require the power to focus- it is merely there to reduce the accommodative effort (and eventually strain) that comes with looking at a smartphone for 4, 6, or 8 hours a day.

    Like I said, agree or not- Eyezen+ is not designed to be a PAL. I've fit some of my +1.00 ADD colleagues in Eyezen+ 4 and Varilux X Design +1.00 ADD, and I can tell you the Varilux lens is going to provide much better vision. Conversely, if you try to put a pre-presbyope in a PAL lens to relieve accommodation the results (at least in my experience) are not usually very good.
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Sr. Director Professional Solutions
    Essilor of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by vfpamp View Post
    I think Peepers used the wrong word. The field of view is the same, but the acceptance of the glasses can go down. For instance, certain reflections may be more noticeable with stronger thinnings.

    Thinning power is proportional to the add power. The stronger the add power, the more distinct top and bottom are, requiring more prism to equalize.

    Prism-thinning for of up to 2 prism diopters goes undetected but 100% of patients reject over 4 prism diopters on thinning.

    So, because is such a small add, prism thinning is not required, and thus does not create weird ghosts, increasing the acceptability of the lens as compared to a regular progressive.
    I think you should let Peepers answer for themselves. You can just stay in your lane of sunglasses where the UV falls off, as your answer here was completely unhelpful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Hanlin View Post
    Basically, the lens is relieving- not replacing- accommodation.
    I would argue that most prescriptions for younger professionals with an add power are relieving and not replacing accommodation. Those are not SV prescriptions. But according to your definition, they cannot be called progressives either (because they are not replacing, just relieving).

    I understand the 4mm threshold, but that is also not unique to EyeZen. I have seen lenses with 3-5mm gaps and a stronger acceleration to get the ADD power quickly after that. In fact, if you have the right lab, you can start the ADD power whenever you want. Maybe we should label all lenses with 4mm or more of distance-near gap to be Single Vision. :)

    I liked the corporate spin though. It takes a good mind to think about all that :)
    Vitor Pamplona
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  16. #16
    OptiBoard Professional RT's Avatar
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    +1 Pete!
    Basically, the lens is
    relieving
    - not
    replacing
    - accommodation.
    Enhanced SV products are not intended for use when there is a diagnosis of presbyopia. Nor are they reimbursed by Managed Vision Care plans as a progressive.
    RT

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