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Thread: Why are glasses so expensive?

  1. #26
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    The ignore button is your friend.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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    the happy patients of today will be replaced with younger generations ...............

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post

    The present that is now, will be changing at a much faster speed as technical and commercial technology advances in every field, even in the optical retail where the happy patients of today will be replaced with younger generations that have a far different way of thinking and acting.

    What has been the basic standard in a profession for the last hundred years will have to be adapted to more modern times in every way as we go along, or we will be at the losing end. Planning ahead of the game has never harmed anybody, but maybe could be of some benefit for many.


    ......................that was the stage when this thread got rudely derailed by a relatively new member with very little posting history, and does not want to accept advice from other posting members.
    Chris Ryser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Kwill....................................... To answer your post I will repeat again what I have said for a long time, and then maybe you might understand.

    I have never said and not meant, what you are writing about. In short, my idea that probably could work, is that you could split up your present total markup a different way and not make a penny less.


    To price the frames at a competitive cost, to attract customers. Then sell them a service package to finish the job, that contains everything you want to include, more revenue or warranties for frames, from lenses to warranties on them, adjustments and maybe even minor repairs along the way for a certain time period you set and decide the details.

    It is an idea that just might work ..........................
    Chris;

    Don't you think you'll have some pretty ****** off customers when using your pricing formula who return with a broken frame and are told that since they did not purchase the service package they will have to shell out another $$$ for a new frame after making the original purchase only months previous?

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

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    Don't you think you'll have some pretty ****** off customers ........................

    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post
    Chris;

    Don't you think you'll have some pretty ****** off customers when using your pricing formula who return with a broken frame and are told that since they did not purchase the service package they will have to shell out another $$$ for a new frame after making the original purchase only months previous?

    Regards,
    Golfnorth



    .............if you would use my proposed formula of selling the frame at rock bottom price without the service package. I would show him that he signed off the purchase of the service package, that includes any warranty and guarantee on the job......................and that would settle the case.

    However if there is a factory warranty for the breakage of whatever happened by the manufacturer, and by the distributor, it would be honored.

    Very simple and fair solution.
    Chris Ryser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    .............if you would use my proposed formula of selling the frame at rock bottom price without the service package. I would show him that he signed off the purchase of the service package, that includes any warranty and guarantee on the job......................and that would settle the case.

    However if there is a factory warranty for the breakage of whatever happened by the manufacturer, and by the distributor, it would be honored.

    Very simple and fair solution.
    But do you honestly think they would purchase from you again under those circumstances?
    I don't think so!

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post
    But do you honestly think they would purchase from you again under those circumstances?
    I don't think so!

    Regards,
    Golfnorth
    Not a chance that customer ever comes back. I would guess that 90% of the people that came in to a store like Chris is proposing would immediately leave, head to the internet and leave terrible reviews for the business. I would imagine something like this:

    "I went to buy new glasses today at Doomsday Optical, It was terrible! First of all their selection was awful, the frames looked like they were kids toys that I could have found at the drugstore, or given away at the downtown 10k I ran last week(personal best time btw). They just felt super cheap. Whatever. My insurance told me this place was in my network so I figured I would give it a try. I picked out the least offensive looking frame there. When I said they felt kind of loose on my head and were crooked, the rude person there told me he would fix it but It would cost me $20!!!!! OMG, no, just no. So it seems their scam is to get you in the door with their "rock bottom prices" and then nickel and dime you to death with extra charges and fees. The guy even tried to get me to sign some stupid waiver with fees and prices on it. So, every time this flimsy frame needs to be tightened, which seems like it would be every other day, they are going to charge me $20? I don't think so. I won't ever be going there again, and neither will any of my friends!

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    .............if you would use my proposed formula of selling the frame at rock bottom price without the service package. I would show him that he signed off the purchase of the service package, that includes any warranty and guarantee on the job......................and that would settle the case.

    However if there is a factory warranty for the breakage of whatever happened by the manufacturer, and by the distributor, it would be honored.

    Very simple and fair solution.
    Chris;

    Your formula of pricing will reduce the volume of stores that implement it IMHO. Please note that there is nobody that has publicly stated that they are using this or any similar way of pricing product despite being asked. With a decrease in volume (I don't believe people will pay for all the extra warranties and services) plus by the time you explain it anyone waiting with an rx in their hand may decide to go elsewhere as they were waiting too long to be served. With internet penetration around 15% why dramatically change pricing at this point in time?

    Since you've been on this rant my business has done nothing but increase and I will not be using your pricing model.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post
    Chris;
    With internet penetration around 15% why dramatically change pricing at this point in time?

    Since you've been on this rant my business has done nothing but increase and I will not be using your pricing model.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth
    Great points. At some point, at least as far as optical goes, I wonder whether online purchases will soon reach terminal velocity - after all these years of being available outside of b/m channels (online and 1-800 etc. before that), we still sell contact lenses. As more folks give on line a try, they will also realize the myriad benefits of shopping in a real store with real service and more than just cheap private label frames. Believe it or not, we sell eyewear to folks who already have purchased from WP. Imagine that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by optimensch View Post
    Great points. At some point, at least as far as optical goes, I wonder whether online purchases will soon reach terminal velocity - after all these years of being available outside of b/m channels (online and 1-800 etc. before that), we still sell contact lenses. As more folks give on line a try, they will also realize the myriad benefits of shopping in a real store with real service and more than just cheap private label frames. Believe it or not, we sell eyewear to folks who already have purchased from WP. Imagine that.
    Excellent points. The same is true for me.

    Recently, I had a long term customer who came in for his yearly glasses update. Keep in mind we don't do exams, he gets his Rx elsewhere and comes into us for glasses. He bought two very nice pair... both progressive, one clear, one sunglass. While he's in the shop he asks me if I'll adjust the pair he bough online at Zenni. Of course I did... they did NOT fit him well and looked, imho, pretty silly. I asked him how much they were and he laughed and said, they were something like $99. Frame, lenses, AR, the works, delivered for $99. Damn! I asked how he liked them, and he replied he was just curious and had to give them a try. Said they're usable and they're an ok 'back-up' pair but he said they don't compare at all to what I make him. Fair enough, and a good learning experience for both of us.

    Second story. Had a lady yesterday pick-up 5 pair of glasses. She bought 2 new complete pair and had me put new lenses in 3 of her own. One was a WP frame with grey polarized lenses. They BC was terrible for the frame, way too flat. It flattened the frame out and made it fit poorly. I did a much better job and it turned out much, much better and I pointed it out to her and she seemed appreciative.

    Who would have thunk it!? Brick and mortar and online living in harmony!? And, two customers who tried different onlines and came back to see me!? Maybe doomsday isn't so certain...

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by optimensch View Post
    Great points. At some point, at least as far as optical goes, I wonder whether online purchases will soon reach terminal velocity - after all these years of being available outside of b/m channels (online and 1-800 etc. before that), we still sell contact lenses. As more folks give on line a try, they will also realize the myriad benefits of shopping in a real store with real service and more than just cheap private label frames. Believe it or not, we sell eyewear to folks who already have purchased from WP. Imagine that.
    I see Warby losing its status in the not too distant future.

    But I don't think their long view plans needs a brand name as they elbow their way into the market and then merge/sell when the price is right.

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    Let us all take a long step backwards in time..............
    LensCrafters came to town. OMG, we can't compete with their one hour service. What will we do to survive? Re-think your business model. They did, and they more than survived. Some added in house edging, added products that LC did not carry, created value that LC could not. They survived.
    LensCrafters now takes vision insurance. OMG, that is our ace in the hole. What will we do to survive? See above statement. They survived.
    LensCrafters uses so many hi-tech devices that we can't afford. OMG, what will we do to survive? Work with your vendors, train your staff, provide a higher knowledge base. They survived.
    People, this isn't commodity warehouse pricing. On-line has its limitations. Our job is to overcome and exploit these limitations.
    Same with W/P. I agree with Fes. One day, another brand will pop up and we will be sweating over that one.
    Point is, this is your business. This is your sweat equity. Be smart and be fluid. Don't stick to the "This is always the we did things", why? Because times, they are a changing.
    Is the sky falling? Perhaps, to some degree. Build an umbrella to shield your business. Provide value with knowledge, products and services that on-line sellers do not. And no, value does not mean cheap. Those that don't will eventually get crushed be the fallout.

    Time to let the Warby Parker thread die. We have more important things to think about, like how to build that umbrella.

    Happy weekend, all.

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    Redhot Jumper Time to let the Warby Parker thread die.........................................

    Quote Originally Posted by lensmanmd View Post

    Time to let the Warby Parker thread die. We have more important things to think about, like how to build that umbrella.

    Happy weekend, all.


    If You believe that by letting the WP thread die, the problem is solved, is like dreaming in colors ..............................

    Nobody mentioned the Essilor notice I posted last week right here on optiBoard, .................about Essilor, that is purchasing:

    Essilor signed an agreement to acquire 100% of Brille24 GmbH. The latter is one of the leading online retailers of optical products in Germany, with an annual revenue of close to €25 million. (25 million Euros = US $ 28.34 million).

    That is a far more important issue for the professional optical retail sector on a worldwide basis, initiated by the world's largest optical manufacturer and supplier, which is another link in the chain to finally strangle a profession.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    If You believe that by letting the WP thread die, the problem is solved, is like dreaming in colors ..............................

    Nobody mentioned the Essilor notice I posted last week right here on optiBoard, .................about Essilor, that is purchasing:

    Essilor signed an agreement to acquire 100% of Brille24 GmbH. The latter is one of the leading online retailers of optical products in Germany, with an annual revenue of close to €25 million. (25 million Euros = US $ 28.34 million).

    That is a far more important issue for the professional optical retail sector on a worldwide basis, initiated by the world's largest optical manufacturer and supplier, which is another link in the chain to finally strangle a profession.
    Only if you put your eggs in the Essilux basket. Many of us do most of our business elsewhere. That is how we strengthen our umbrella. Just so you know, there are many independent labs opening nationwide due to Essilor buying up established labs. Some are even breaking the Essilor chains and going independent! Yes, you heard that right....kicking ESS to the curb. The feeling amongst these operators, enough is enough. My umbrella is very sturdy, thank you.

    Chris, you might want to spend some time researching this, instead of everything WP and Essilor. Independents are here to stay, and growing, BTW.

    We replaced WP FF PALs with our own, and just for giggles, I mapped the WP and ours on the VX40. Unfortunately, we are too small to afford an AR mapper. If I have time, I'll post some pics of them later. There is a reason WP buyers come to us for replacement lenses.

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    Blue Jumper Chris, you might want to spend some time researching..........................

    Quote Originally Posted by lensmanmd View Post

    Chris, you might want to spend some time researching this, instead of everything WP and Essilor. Independents are here to stay, and growing, BTW.

    ....................actually I am not researching anything or anybody, it is all there and available.

    The WP got my interest through their suddenly, heavily increased speed of growth and advertising, a few months ago, so I looked into it.

    Essilor's American and World wide progress has had my own personal interest for over 40 years, and I have kept tabs on it, and periodically posted on it over the years, right here on optiBoard.

    Independent opticians, according to official figures are on a downtrend to 14 % (not confirmed) at this time.
    Last edited by Chris Ryser; 02-24-2019 at 02:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    ....................actually I am not researching anything or anybody, it is all there and available.

    The WP got my interest through their suddenly, heavily increased speed of growth and advertising, a few months ago, so I looked into it.

    Essilor's American and World wide progress has had my own personal interest for over 40 years, and I have kept tabs on it, and periodically posted on it over the years, right here on optiBoard.

    Independent opticians, according to official figures are on a downtrend to 14 % at this time.
    Good morning Chris;

    Kindly post the link that states that independent opticians market share is 14% at this time.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

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    Quote Originally Posted by lensmanmd View Post
    Only if you put your eggs in the Essilux basket. Many of us do most of our business elsewhere. That is how we strengthen our umbrella. Just so you know, there are many independent labs opening nationwide due to Essilor buying up established labs. Some are even breaking the Essilor chains and going independent! Yes, you heard that right....kicking ESS to the curb. The feeling amongst these operators, enough is enough. My umbrella is very sturdy, thank you.

    Chris, you might want to spend some time researching this, instead of everything WP and Essilor. Independents are here to stay, and growing, BTW.

    We replaced WP FF PALs with our own, and just for giggles, I mapped the WP and ours on the VX40. Unfortunately, we are too small to afford an AR mapper. If I have time, I'll post some pics of them later. There is a reason WP buyers come to us for replacement lenses.
    Lensmanmd……..yes I agree and I certainly do 95% of my lab business non-Essilor. As for Lux....I only carry RayBan and guess what?
    My business up substantially! Last fiscal was our best year ever and this year we are flying out of the gate.
    Unfortunately Chris doesn't understand that you can thrive without using Essilux.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

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    Blue Jumper Kindly post the link .................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post

    Good morning Chris;

    Kindly post the link that states that independent opticians market share is 14% at this time.


    ..................this has been kicked around optiBoard a few times and is counting for the USA, not Canada.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    ..................this has been kicked around optiBoard a few times and is counting for the USA, not Canada.
    Kicked around here, cut, pasted and reposted. By Ryser. Thus, it is fact!

    C'mon man... he simply asked you to cite your source and your answer is that has been 'kicked around here'? And you wonder why a few of us give you such a hard time?

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    Blue Jumper see historical collection of posts, at:................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Quig View Post

    Kicked around here, cut, pasted and reposted. By Ryser. Thus, it is fact!

    C'mon man... he simply asked you to cite your source and your answer is that has been 'kicked around here'? And you wonder why a few of us give you such a hard time?

    see historical collection of posts, at:

    https://www.optiboard.com/forums/member.php/44592-Quig
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    see historical collection of posts, at:

    https://www.optiboard.com/forums/member.php/44592-Quig
    And I stand by each and every one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    see historical collection of posts, at:

    https://www.optiboard.com/forums/member.php/44592-Quig
    Dear Chris;

    Again I ask you to verify your claim that independant optician's market share is 15%. Please reveal your source.

    Many thanks,
    Golfnorth

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    I’ve not seen a survey that definitively states 14% of market share is independent Optician owned opticals, but judging from my metro area (Houston), it’s way lower than that. We are over saturated with opticals, I’ve got 20+ within 5 miles of my main location. But, in all the metro area, I can count the Optician owned locations on less than one hand. Two I know of do unbelievably well, multi million. One’s luxury,the other specializes in pediatric (then captures the parents as clients).

    It’s been tough for years now to be an independent Optician, and it’s not getting easier. As with the 2 examples I gave above, you better specialize and be the best there is in that specialty. Know the demographics of your expected market you wish to cater to, locate there, prominently! Your location can make or break you. If you don’t have referring Dr’s you better be some place with high foot traffic ( that means expensive).

    Some of us fought years ago to elevate Opticianry, to create opportunities to be independent. But unfortunately, we’re an apathetic bunch. I dare say, our ship has sailed. I applaud those Opticians out there making it....Their way. You’re a rare bunch. Kudos!

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    Redhot Jumper There are currently 21 states that require dispensing opticians to hold a license....

    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post

    Dear Chris;

    Again I ask you to verify your claim that independant optician's market share is 15%. Please reveal your source.

    Many thanks,
    Golfnorth




    There are currently 21 states that require dispensing opticians to hold a license. Vision care centers do not have one universal certification that is required, although 28% of employers require their opticians to be certified, according to the American Board of Opticianry.


    https://www.mercatus.org/system/file...nLicensing.pdf

    and

    https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...KfM7j8itlQlO2M:
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    Redhot Jumper Some of us fought years ago to elevate Opticianry .................................

    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post


    Some of us fought years ago to elevate Opticianry, to create opportunities to be independent. But unfortunately, we’re an apathetic bunch. I dare say, our ship has sailed. I applaud those Opticians out there making it....Their way. You’re a rare bunch. Kudos!


    optical24/7...................thank you for your post, which clears some of the air.
    Chris Ryser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    optical24/7...................thank you for your post, which clears some of the air.
    Chris;

    It doesn't clear any air at all.
    Again I ask you to post the link to your assertion that independent opticians market share is 14%.
    Why do you post this stuff if it isn't true?
    Why are you misleading this thread and this community?
    Why do you play such games?

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