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Thread: Do you use ICare Lab in St. Petersburg FL?

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    Do you use ICare Lab in St. Petersburg FL?

    I wanted to get your feedback and opinion on Icare Lab in St. Petersburg, FL.
    I know their prices are very competitive compared to most other labs.

    How do you feel about their redo and credit policy?
    1. NO DR REDOs on single visions, and bifocals
    2. NO REDO's on seg height measurements, frame changes - no credits
    3. NO credits for add ons, such as anti-glare, transitions, and poly, only the base lenses (digital progressive only)

    I agree, using Icare have lowered our lab bill. But all the denied redos are hurting us!

    Should we continue to use Icare, or use a local lab that offers better redo and credits.

    Please advise.
    Last edited by optician2601; 07-02-2018 at 01:46 PM.

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    Why not to try and find a lab where you could work out some sort of contract. Promise them so much of you business for maybe a better redo policy. I've heard of some labs that offer unlimited redo policy for 1 year for so much business (not sure which labs). There are hundreds of labs here in the states, it shouldn't be hard to find one that is willing to work out a good deal for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by optician2601 View Post
    I wanted to get your feedback and opinion on Icare Lab in St. Petersburg, FL.
    I know their prices are very competitive compared to most other labs.

    How do you feel about their redo and credit policy?
    1. NO DR REDOs on single visions, and bifocals
    2. NO REDO's on seg height measurements, frame changes - no credits
    3. NO credits for add ons, such as anti-glare, transitions, and poly, only the base lenses (digital progressive only)

    I agree, using Icare have lowered our lab bill. But all the denied redos are hurting us!

    Should we continue to use Icare, or use a local lab that offers better redo and credits.

    Please advise.

    I don't use ICare Lab, or have any knowledge of them but if all the redo's are hurting your bottom line, have you looked in the mirror? Where are the mistakes coming from, and how can you stop them? It's in everyone's best interest to limit redo's. Your's, the lab's, and the patients.

    There are 2 ways of doing it.

    1. Pay a higher price upfront and get remakes covered or reduced price.

    2. Negotiate a way better price from the lab and eat the cost of very seldmon redos.

    The first way is better if your quality control is lacking. The second way is better if you take more time with the jobs, do them right the first time, and limit mistakes. I greatly prefer the second way.

    I haven't worked in many other industries, but I can't imagine there are just free mulligans when you need to redo custom made items.

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    Why industry started redo policies is beyond me. As an independent owner I am forced to have a liberal redo policy out of fear an account will switch to a lab that covers all their mistakes. The initial price @ wholesale allows for a slim profit margin and with a redo I'm in the red per job. I applaud I-Care for their policies. My office remakes are around 25% even with dispenser training to try to reduce remakes. Lab remakes are less than 1% as we are good at what we do. This speaks to the question of why we need certified opticians fitting and dispensing.

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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter how well-trained your staff is when 10% of your client base are careless, insanely picky, terrible communicators, or just plain stupid. At least half of our "Doctor's changes" are patients who, for example, insisted that they need a "trifocal" when they meant progressive NO MATTER HOW CLEARLY THEY WERE ASKED, or insisted that they need "transitions" when they meant progressive NO MATTER HOW CLEARLY THEY WERE ASKED, or insisted on reading glasses when what they needed to read was road signs NO MATTER HOW CLEARLY THEY WERE ASKED, or insisted that they need their flat top 2mm lower than usual, or insisted that they LOOOOOOVE that lipstick-red frame which their husband then despised, or decided when they picked up their glasses that their ALREADY PAID FOR frame was too expensive, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on...
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post
    It doesn't matter how well-trained your staff is when 10% of your client base are careless, insanely picky, terrible communicators, or just plain stupid. At least half of our "Doctor's changes" are patients who, for example, insisted that they need a "trifocal" when they meant progressive NO MATTER HOW CLEARLY THEY WERE ASKED, or insisted that they need "transitions" when they meant progressive NO MATTER HOW CLEARLY THEY WERE ASKED, or insisted on reading glasses when what they needed to read was road signs NO MATTER HOW CLEARLY THEY WERE ASKED, or insisted that they need their flat top 2mm lower than usual, or insisted that they LOOOOOOVE that lipstick-red frame which their husband then despised, or decided when they picked up their glasses that their ALREADY PAID FOR frame was too expensive, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on...
    Amen to that! Some days!

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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRECISIONLAB View Post
    Why industry started redo policies is beyond me. As an independent owner I am forced to have a liberal redo policy out of fear an account will switch to a lab that covers all their mistakes. The initial price @ wholesale allows for a slim profit margin and with a redo I'm in the red per job. I applaud I-Care for their policies. My office remakes are around 25% even with dispenser training to try to reduce remakes. Lab remakes are less than 1% as we are good at what we do. This speaks to the question of why we need certified opticians fitting and dispensing.
    Why don't you have 2 price lists? One with redo one without? I can tell you I've approached most frame and lab companies. The vast, vast majority won't come up with a final sale price list and if they do....Offer me an additional 10%.....10% extra ain't gonna motivate anybody to go non-warranted.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    I'm trying to remember when I first became aware of "free" remakes. My first job was at a wholesale lab. I think I remember dr's changes...when the rx actually changed, not the frame or measurements. But the concept of "free" remakes was tied to the first progressive lenses, I think. They weren't very good and to appease unhappy wearers, labs offered a one-time-free remake. It has gotten completely out of control, allowing untrained fitters to cover their collective asses while never really learning what went wrong. It costs our industry a tremendous amount of money and causes lens prices to rise to ridiculous levels. But that's just the opinion of an old lady(optically speaking).

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    Optical Janitor OptiBoard Silver Supporter peyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Canty View Post
    I'm trying to remember when I first became aware of "free" remakes. My first job was at a wholesale lab. I think I remember dr's changes...when the rx actually changed, not the frame or measurements. But the concept of "free" remakes was tied to the first progressive lenses, I think. They weren't very good and to appease unhappy wearers, labs offered a one-time-free remake. It has gotten completely out of control, allowing untrained fitters to cover their collective asses while never really learning what went wrong. It costs our industry a tremendous amount of money and causes lens prices to rise to ridiculous levels. But that's just the opinion of an old lady(optically speaking).
    I totally agree. We are retail with surfacing and finishing. Several years ago I instituted the following policy: " If a remake is because of inaccurate measurements then the one taking the measurements will cover the COST of the new lenses." Almost completely eliminated that problem! Wish I had a fix for inaccurate prescriptions.

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    Master OptiBoarder CCGREEN's Avatar
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    Angie Hamm and Judy Canty have both nailed the causing issues on the head. Now we as professionals will sharpen our skills and become a damn good optician in every manner we can then pass the buck on to the titty baby consumers that we have over the years created and start charging for ALL of our skills and give the consumer ONE free remake after that they get to pay a percentage for a remake. Hit them in the pocket and watch them become more tolerant to adjusting to a new Rx and frame.
    If its a mistake I make then I deserve to own up to it and learn from it, but I dont know about everyone else Im tired of the titty baby customers.

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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Could be wrong, but I think when Armorlite came out with “RLX” predates, what was it, Varilux II? And, I think Luxottica, or one of the European frame companies that came in and started taking back product for full price...

    These were the start of “returns”. It was a way to introduce product, a warranty of benefits, convince ECP’s to try the product. The worst warranty imho.....Was when LC started “Love em or bring them back”. Now, even frame changes are expected. By the public. We charge a restocking fee for those whom, by the way, we meticulously help with absolute best frame selection, have buyers remorse.

    But I don’t understand why suppliers are so resistant to substantial discount for final sale. That could bring down general pricing and weed out the abusers that game the system.

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    Used them for years and loved them. The remake policy isnt for everyone but we implemented some strategies that mitigated patient satisfaction losses and I have a higher expectation for measurement errors. We came out ahead the majority of the time, it was rare when the pricing with remakes saved us during any given month. I spent years asking labs for lower pricing if they got rid of remakes and no one wanted to do that even though it would improve cash flow on our account with them, ICL was the only lab I could find with that policy.
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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    The most frustrating thing in the world is when your optical knowledge transcends the mechanics of your work and enters the realm of knowing beyond the shadow of a doubt that you're going to be remaking a patient's glasses before you've even finished taking the initial order.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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    So basically not having lab remakes as a policy ensures that offices that don't get 1 out of every 4 job wrong pay for the ones that do get 1/4 wrong. I guess like the -2.00 spheres pay for the -6.00 cyls in their margins?

    I hate buyers remorse, but I hate a patient with a frame thats too small also, but then I wasn't always there when it was fit and I know there are plenty of people who like a frame and how it feels when they get it, but feel it is tight later. I dunno, its complicated stuff working with the public for sure, especially if making them satisfied and happy is your goal.

    Is it happy hour yet?

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    Ghost in the OptiMachine OptiBoard Silver Supporter Quince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post
    The most frustrating thing in the world is when your optical knowledge transcends the mechanics of your work and enters the realm of knowing beyond the shadow of a doubt that you're going to be remaking a patient's glasses before you've even finished taking the initial order.
    I HATE this feeling! It is so discouraging, but sometimes you just have to go along with it. Unless you just kick them out the door. And I'm not at liberty to do that. Maybe someday.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    .I dunno, its complicated stuff working with the public for sure, especially if making them satisfied and happy is your goal.

    Is it happy hour yet?
    I fit a lady in a nice Kate Spade frame. (Pd 59) She was centered.. fit great and looked nice. A month after she picked them up she calls on the phone says that she hates them and wants them redone. So she comes in today and insists on a large men's elasta frame. Sits high on her nose and is super wide. She says it's perfect. They look like S**T. But yes, I am remaking them. Had another lady earlier rip me apart because I told her the contacts she was prescribed are 2 week lenses and you have to order 8 boxes for a year supply. But she wears them monthly so I am wrong. I must be talking about a different type of lens. People are on my last nerve today. I am really need a drink.... and chocolate. Chocolate doesn't judge. Chocolate is your friend.

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    Blue Jumper .............if Rx and other measurements are within the tolerances

    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post

    knowing beyond the shadow of a doubt that you're going to be remaking a patient's glasses before you've even finished taking the initial order.

    .............if Rx and other measurements are within the allowable tolerances, why should you remake them?

    If not ..........you should not have passed the finished glasses to your patients and go back to school
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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    .............if Rx and other measurements are within the allowable tolerances, why should you remake them?

    If not ..........you should not have passed the finished glasses to your patients and go back to school
    Because sometimes if I do what you insist on, I lose that patient's business, and their whole family's business, and all of their friends' business. "Going back to school" has nothing to do with this problem. Thanks for trolling me, though! Have a great day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    .............if Rx and other measurements are within the allowable tolerances, why should you remake them?

    If not ..........you should not have passed the finished glasses to your patients and go back to school

    Clearly written by someone who hasn't dealt with retail customers in decades.

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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    Clearly written by someone who hasn't dealt with retail customers in decades.
    Clearly.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeHamm View Post
    Because sometimes if I do what you insist on, I lose that patient's business, and their whole family's business, and all of their friends' business. "Going back to school" has nothing to do with this problem. Thanks for trolling me, though! Have a great day.
    Exactly. It's like a bizzare game when you have to work with the public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    Clearly written by someone who hasn't dealt with retail customers in decades.
    Our redos are not fitting issues, but DR REDOs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by optician2601 View Post
    Our redos are not fitting issues, but DR REDOs.
    Please teach me how to snatch the pebble from your hand master.

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    Redhot Jumper I fit a lady in a nice Kate Spade frame.............................

    Quote Originally Posted by mervinek View Post

    I fit a lady in a nice Kate Spade frame. (Pd 59) She was centered.. fit great and looked nice. A month after she picked them up she calls on the phone says that she hates them and wants them redone. So she comes in today and insists on a large men's elasta frame. Sits high on her nose and is super wide. She says it's perfect. They look like S**T. But yes, I am remaking them.


    Here are 5 posts condemning me, for promoting to do what is right. Perfect fit, Rx, model and color plus adjustment and pay for it.

    One month later the patient comes back and wants to exchange it. It is done without question as it is the right thing to do.

    I would not want to buy a highly personal item that sits on somebody's skin for a full month and then goes back onto the frame board at the optician, waiting for another buyer. Ugh.

    On the other hand, if your markup allows you to take the loss and toss the used ones into the garbage, it might be a noble move, but then I would worry of being overcharged from the start, to cover the case when it happens.
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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    On the other hand, if your markup allows you to take the loss and toss the used ones into the garbage, it might be a noble move, but then I would worry of being overcharged from the start, to cover the case when it happens.
    All retail works this way, and has worked this way forever.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

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