Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: 2-years vs. 6-months opticianry programs

  1. #1
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,104

    2-years vs. 6-months opticianry programs

    Why do community Colleges spend 2-years to properly train a Dispensing Optician while private Colleges are able to do it in a much shorter timeframe?

    Part of the answer is different student demographics. The average high school graduate continuing to opticianry training at a community College is under 20-years old. This young person is expected to grow while attending College, and usually leaves school 2-years later a more mature adult.

    Private Colleges have a different demographic. Their student population is generally much older, and some are recent immigrants with advanced degrees that are not recognized here in North America. Some are forced into making a career change due to labour upheavals, while others must retrain due to workplace injuries. In many cases this private school demographic have families to support, and want to rejoin the workforce as quickly as possible. They don’t want to spend 2-years in an opticianry school, and they don’t care to spend their Friday nights drinking with classmates at the local pub. They want a course that offers comprehensive 'accelerated' career training, in the shortest timeframe possible.

    All private and public opticianry programs teach various competencies listed in three categories... 1) Must Know (core), 2) Should Know and 3) Nice to Know.
    Each autonomous opticianry school arranges its program to include these three categories. But ‘old school’ programs continue to offer 2-year program duration with little regard for new advances in learning technologies, Internet, U-Tube, webinars, on-line, etc. Their goal is less about bringing a student to the workplace in a timely manner, and more about maintaining their program's 2-years duration, because “its always been a 2-year course”.

    The business model of private career training encourages the finding of new advanced training aids that can promote quicker learning, as time spent in school is an important consideration in their business model. Longer times spent in school usually results in higher student debt, and career training is not enhanced by farming out the ‘hands-on’ practical portion of opticianry training to well-meaning store owners. It’s simply a gamble... some store owners enjoy teaching students and can do a credible job, while other employers look at students simply as a source of low-cost labour and often don’t have the patience, energy or time to devote to continuous student questions.

    The invention of the Internet is the greatest source of increased public knowledge since the Gutenberg press allowed for the mass printing of books. Yet the Internet has not produced any effect on community College course durations. Fortunately private Colleges are in a position to use all current training technologies and can reduce opticianry course durations without compromising optical competencies. IMHO shorter duration programs are the wave of the future.
    Last edited by tmorse; 05-26-2019 at 02:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,104
    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    Why do community Colleges spend 2-years to properly train a Dispensing Optician while private Colleges are able to do it in a much shorter timeframe?
    There are now three 'private' opticianry training courses available in Canada... two are 'accelerated' BC programs and one New Brunswick program is not.
    Last edited by tmorse; 05-21-2019 at 03:51 PM.

  3. #3
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oakville
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    817
    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    There are now three private opticianry training courses available in Canada... two are 'accelerated' BC programs and one New Brunswick program is not.
    Did you forget about the Optician's program at Georgian College?
    Isn't there a program in Quebec as well?

    http://cat.georgiancollege.ca/programs/opti/

    P.S. I as an employer would not hire a graduate of any accelerated program.



  4. #4
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,104
    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post
    Did you forget about the Optician's program at Georgian College?
    Isn't there a program in Quebec as well?

    http://cat.georgiancollege.ca/programs/opti/

    P.S. I as an employer would not hire a graduate of any accelerated program.
    Many thanks. I didn’t know Georgian stopped being a ‘taxpayer-supported’ public College, and is now a ‘private’ College.

    And you are on record that you would never hire a graduate of an ‘accelerated’ opticianry program like BC College of Optics’. Well, nobody really cares.

    One of our 1992 BC College of Optics’ ‘accelerated’ graduates now owns a chain of 9-retail optical stores... 5 stores in BC and 4 in Ontario. His Ontario ‘Eyestar Optical’ stores are located in Markham, Brampton, Scarborough and Vaughan Mills, and perhaps his next Eyestar Optical store might be located in Oakville, Ontario right next to your own optical location.
    Last edited by tmorse; 05-21-2019 at 03:53 PM.

  5. #5
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oakville
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    817
    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    Many thanks. I didn’t know Georgian stopped being a ‘taxpayer-supported’ public College, and is now a ‘private’ College.

    And you are on record that you would never hire a graduate of an ‘accelerated’ opticianry program like BC College of Optics’. Well, nobody really cares.

    One of our 1992 BC College of Optics’ ‘accelerated’ graduates now owns a chain of 9-retail optical stores... 5 stores in BC and 4 in Ontario. His ‘Eyestar Optical’ stores are located in Markham, Brampton, Scarborough and Vaughan Mills, and perhaps his next Eyestar Optical store might be located in Oakville, Ontario, right next to your own optical location.

    You are correct and I didn't differentiate in my post regarding the funding. Thank you for pointing out my error.
    What is your affiliation with the BC College of Optics?

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

  6. #6
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,104
    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post
    You are correct and I didn't differentiate in my post regarding the funding. Thank you for pointing out my error.
    What is your affiliation with the BC College of Optics? Regards,
    Golfnorth
    You don't know my affiliation with BC College of Optics??
    CEO and Founder.
    Last edited by tmorse; 09-29-2019 at 02:37 PM.

  7. #7
    OptiBoard Novice
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Ontario
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    7
    Why not just learn on the job while getting paid?

  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Elmer J Fudd's yacht
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    Why not just learn on the job while getting paid?
    Seriously, do you realize how dumb that sounds??? That may work at McDonalds, but any health care profession or skilled trade requires on the job and extensive classroom time.

    When you visit your heart surgeon, ask him if all his training was on the job and then wait for the deer in the headlights look.

  9. #9
    OptiBoard Novice
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Ontario
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lab Insight View Post
    Seriously, do you realize how dumb that sounds??? That may work at McDonalds, but any health care profession or skilled trade requires on the job and extensive classroom time.

    When you visit your heart surgeon, ask him if all his training was on the job and then wait for the deer in the headlights look.
    I was just applying the "reduction to the ridiculous" to tmores' argument. He advocates reducing the 2 year optician training down to 6 months. I say why not go all the way down? I don't agree. But, if you can argue for a 75% reduction, you can't argue against a 100% reduction.

    If someone complains your "low cost eyewear" is too expensive, you could argue that "not wearing glasses" is even cheaper. Squinting is free. You could take a pair of glasses out of the donation bin. You could train on the job... Reduction to the ridiculous.

  10. #10
    Master OptiBoarder CCGREEN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Emerald Coast of Florida
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    912
    [QUOTE=Lab Insight;555704]Seriously, do you realize how dumb that sounds??? That may work at McDonalds, but any health care profession or skilled trade requires on the job and extensive classroom time.

    INSULTING
    I started by taking a 2 year optical program at the local technical collage in Dothan Alabama almost 40 years ago. I then moved to Florida and did their 3 year apprentice program while working with MD's and OD's training under a gentleman who had gone to a school for 2 years and had a associates degree optical science.
    Florida requires that you have ABO and NCLE under your belt before they will let you set for their state exams, then you can take it a bit further and study more and take Florida's test to become Board Certified to do what every you want with contacts but change power. I did all of that stuff almost 40 years ago and continue to have to go and get 20 hrs of continuing education every two years, pay my renewal fee to keep my state license active and renewal fees for ABO & NCLE to keep them active.
    If the state of Florida does not think all of those requirements are to "dumb" then may I suggest you come on down to Florida and sit for their requirements and prove yourself.
    What I am saying is I feel there is a need in this profession for classroom time and clinical training out in the real world. NOT either or. You take any OD or MD they have classroom hours and clinical hours put in.....many many hours of.

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,104
    "It's all about optical competencies", all of which are listed in the National Competencies for Canadian Opticians document found in the NACOR website. For the past 35-years BC College of Optics (BCCO) has offered our 6-month OPTICIAN/CONTACT LENS FITTER program in BC, Canada and our BCCO graduates do amazingly well on the very rigorous NACOR competency exams in both Dispensing and Contact Lens Fitting. Your 2-year public College training model is fine, but is almost 60-years old. And the NAIT/Seneca distance-learning opticianry training models are almost twice as long as that.
    We are now in the Internet age, where both students and schools have unlimited access to modern learning methodologies and advanced training aids. Private 'career training' schools have traditionally been able to deliver excellent vocational training in a much shorter time frame than public College programs. So the 75% is a time reduction, and not a content reduction.
    We concentrate on the 1) Must Know and 2) Should Know and minimize the 3) Nice to Know aspects of opticianry education. Someday you may find yourself working side by side with one of our BCCO graduates, and you may change your mind.

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,104
    Go down to my Post #1 below for a more comprehensive answer, and also read my other thread dated May 13, 2019 in this same Canadian Forum. 2-year ASSOCIATES DEGREE... pre-requisites revealed

    Last edited by tmorse; 09-30-2019 at 01:27 PM.

  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC, USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,875
    [QUOTE=CCGREEN;555708]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lab Insight View Post
    Seriously, do you realize how dumb that sounds??? That may work at McDonalds, but any health care profession or skilled trade requires on the job and extensive classroom time.

    INSULTING
    I started by taking a 2 year optical program at the local technical collage in Dothan Alabama almost 40 years ago. I then moved to Florida and did their 3 year apprentice program while working with MD's and OD's training under a gentleman who had gone to a school for 2 years and had a associates degree optical science.
    Florida requires that you have ABO and NCLE under your belt before they will let you set for their state exams, then you can take it a bit further and study more and take Florida's test to become Board Certified to do what every you want with contacts but change power. I did all of that stuff almost 40 years ago and continue to have to go and get 20 hrs of continuing education every two years, pay my renewal fee to keep my state license active and renewal fees for ABO & NCLE to keep them active.
    If the state of Florida does not think all of those requirements are to "dumb" then may I suggest you come on down to Florida and sit for their requirements and prove yourself.
    What I am saying is I feel there is a need in this profession for classroom time and clinical training out in the real world. NOT either or. You take any OD or MD they have classroom hours and clinical hours put in.....many many hours of.
    It s insulting, but is not Mr. Morse's fault. He teaches the basics needed to perform the duties of a dispensing optician on a daily basis. and does it just fine. His students, just like those in the military program at Yorktown, Virginia go to school for 40 hours/week. Traditional school programs attend 15-20 hours, and take additional courses (what Ted calls the "nice to know" courses) in English, Math, and other subjects that help round out the individual's education. His program plays a role in Canada. You may be surprised to know that in Canada, all Opticians have to have SOME didactic course work, either online of face-to-face.

    To your personal situation, I am very familiar with the Dothan program. It has never been COA accredited, something else you may not know. Had it been accredited you would not have been required to complete the apprenticeship. Its a shame you had to do that. But what is an even bigger shame is that now only 22 states in the US have to have ANY kind of training. The rest have to have the very stiff requirement of a pulse. That is the true insult, but hold on. It gets worse. There is really limited data in the literature that proves you/we with education, do things one iota better than those that do not.

    Until we in the US change drastically, and mandate education and training all this discussion is moot. Ted offers a program. It provides training and education necessary to do the job and is heads and shoulders above any apprenticeship program, that I can tell you. You mention ODs and MDs. They have a solid education, and high incomes not found in Opticianry. Unfortunately what we attract to the field today is someone seeking an easy gig. We must improve.
    Last edited by wmcdonald; 09-30-2019 at 07:24 PM.

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In Flux
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,562
    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    You don't know my affiliation with BC College of Optics??
    CEO and Founder.
    - certainly he knows who you are, totally ignore him

  15. #15
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Elmer J Fudd's yacht
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    709
    [QUOTE=CCGREEN;555708]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lab Insight View Post
    Seriously, do you realize how dumb that sounds??? That may work at McDonalds, but any health care profession or skilled trade requires on the job and extensive classroom time.

    INSULTING
    I started by taking a 2 year optical program at the local technical collage in Dothan Alabama almost 40 years ago. I then moved to Florida and did their 3 year apprentice program while working with MD's and OD's training under a gentleman who had gone to a school for 2 years and had a associates degree optical science.
    Florida requires that you have ABO and NCLE under your belt before they will let you set for their state exams, then you can take it a bit further and study more and take Florida's test to become Board Certified to do what every you want with contacts but change power. I did all of that stuff almost 40 years ago and continue to have to go and get 20 hrs of continuing education every two years, pay my renewal fee to keep my state license active and renewal fees for ABO & NCLE to keep them active.
    If the state of Florida does not think all of those requirements are to "dumb" then may I suggest you come on down to Florida and sit for their requirements and prove yourself.
    What I am saying is I feel there is a need in this profession for classroom time and clinical training out in the real world. NOT either or. You take any OD or MD they have classroom hours and clinical hours put in.....many many hours of.
    Uhhhh, we are on the same side and advocacy for classroom requirement. My comment was tongue in cheek but obviously was misinterpreted.

  16. #16
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Elmer J Fudd's yacht
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    709
    [QUOTE=wmcdonald;555718]
    Quote Originally Posted by CCGREEN View Post

    It s insulting, but is not Mr. Morse's fault. He teaches the basics needed to perform the duties of a dispensing optician on a daily basis. and does it just fine. His students, just like those in the military program at Yorktown, Virginia go to school for 40 hours/week. Traditional school programs attend 15-20 hours, and take additional courses (what Ted calls the "nice to know" courses) in English, Math, and other subjects that help round out the individual's education. His program plays a role in Canada. You may be surprised to know that in Canada, all Opticians have to have SOME didactic course work, either online of face-to-face.

    To your personal situation, I am very familiar with the Dothan program. It has never been COA accredited, something else you may not know. Had it been accredited you would not have been required to complete the apprenticeship. Its a shame you had to do that. But what is an even bigger shame is that now only 22 states in the US have to have ANY kind of training. The rest have to have the very stiff requirement of a pulse. That is the true insult, but hold on. It gets worse. There is really limited data in the literature that proves you/we with education, do things one iota better than those that do not.

    Until we in the US change drastically, and mandate education and training all this discussion is moot. Ted offers a program. It provides training and education necessary to do the job and is heads and shoulders above any apprenticeship program, that I can tell you. You mention ODs and MDs. They have a solid education, and high incomes not found in Opticianry. Unfortunately what we attract to the field today is someone seeking an easy gig. We must improve.
    Tmorse offers a fast track program that is compatible, meets the requirements and provides the same content of other programs in a quarter of the time for those where time is of the essence. The end game is exactly the same. And besides, no student really starts learning the real intricacies opticianry until they are licensed and have a few years under their belt. And do we ever stop learning? Most of us don't.

    It's like speed dating; it cuts the BS and unnecessary expense of expensive dinners.

  17. #17
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Elmer J Fudd's yacht
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    - certainly he knows who you are, totally ignore him
    +1

  18. #18
    OptiBoard Novice
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Ontario
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    7
    You could take the same approach with optometry.

    -refraction
    -slit lamp exam
    -fundus

    You could probably put that into a 4 month course. Absurd but true.

  19. #19
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,104
    “If we teach today like we taught yesterday,
    we rob our students of tomorrow” –John Dewey



    Google it!!

  20. #20
    Master OptiBoarder CCGREEN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Emerald Coast of Florida
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    912
    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    “If we teach today like we taught yesterday,
    we rob our students of tomorrow” –John Dewey



    Google it!!
    Progressive teachings can be a good thing...............problem is they tend to stray from the factual foundations of the development of civilizations.

  21. #21
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Elmer J Fudd's yacht
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    You could take the same approach with optometry.

    -refraction
    -slit lamp exam
    -fundus

    You could probably put that into a 4 month course. Absurd but true.
    The lack of merit and ridiculousness of your posts validates your lack of intelligence and certainly doesn't deserve any further replies from individuals who actually possess the skills you lack.

  22. #22
    OptiBoard Novice
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Ontario
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lab Insight View Post
    The lack of merit and ridiculousness of your posts validates your lack of intelligence and certainly doesn't deserve any further replies from individuals who actually possess the skills you lack.
    So it's ok to condense opticianry training but not optometry? Neither should be condensed. The fact is, ophthalmic technicians do refract and perform complete eye exams in ophthalmic practices under delegation. Ophthalmology practices no doubt save money by hiring them. They learn eye examination in condensed programs and on-the-job training. But it doesn't justify reducing optometry to a 12 month program. The same applies to opticianry. Optometrists hire dispensing assistants instead of ROs.

    There is no justification for condensing opticianry training into 6 months if it means eliminating material. "ie nice to know"

  23. #23
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In Flux
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,562
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    ........... Optometrists hire dispensing assistants instead of ROs.

    There is no justification for condensing opticianry training into 6 months if it means eliminating material. "ie nice to know"

    And thats the rub , opticians are competing on an uneven playing field, against untrained assistants that ODs hire, “nice to know”

    and btw Ted is good at what he does , darn good at it .

  24. #24
    Master OptiBoarder CCGREEN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Emerald Coast of Florida
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    912
    Quote Originally Posted by Lab Insight View Post
    The lack of merit and ridiculousness of your posts validates your lack of intelligence and certainly doesn't deserve any further replies from individuals who actually possess the skills you lack.
    Nothing at all wrong with Warriors comment, in fact hes right 100%.
    Technicians are taught to do that all the time....refract, use the slit lamp, take fundus photos.
    Now if you want to start talking about knowing why they do these things and how to do a good refraction or how to recognize and diagnose specific eye conditions and what may be the underlying cause, now we are talking about a different ball game. It take lots of time and practice to become good at it, there is always something new to learn.

    As a Florida Board Certified Optician I can do what ever I want to with a contact lens but change the power. Any changes I make to it I am supposed to look at it under the slit lamp and make any adjustments needed, right there I just recognized and diagnosed a need. Refracting is a mechanical process that anyone can be taught to do. If it was a medical procedure then insurance companies would be paying for it. The only reason opticians are not refracting today here in the USA is because we want the patient to come in for any underlying issues that may be going on so that the health of their eyes can be cared for. If we were refracting only as most patients want us to do the pt would not be receiving the quality of HEALTH care that they deserve.
    All that being said personally I feel we should be refracting but come up with a program that we HAVE to refer the patient every 2 years for a eye health exam before another refraction can be done. That way OD's, MD,s, and LDO,s all get a share of the pie. After all OD,s are constantly pushing to do more and more (and getting) to do more of things that MD,s are doing. Opticians need to be doing the same thing.
    Last edited by CCGREEN; 10-04-2019 at 08:47 AM.

  25. #25
    OptiBoard Novice
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Ontario
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by CCGREEN View Post
    Nothing at all wrong with Warriors comment, in fact hes right 100%.
    Technicians are taught to do that all the time....refract, use the slit lamp, take fundus photos.
    Now if you want to start talking about knowing why they do these things and how to do a good refraction or how to recognize and diagnose specific eye conditions and what may be the underlying cause, now we are talking about a different ball game. It take lots of time and practice to become good at it, there is always something new to learn.

    As a Florida Board Certified Optician I can do what ever I want to with a contact lens but change the power. Any changes I make to it I am supposed to look at it under the slit lamp and make any adjustments needed, right there I just recognized and diagnosed a need. Refracting is a mechanical process that anyone can be taught to do. If it was a medical procedure then insurance companies would be paying for it. The only reason opticians are not refracting today here in the USA is because we want the patient to come in for any underlying issues that may be going on so that the health of their eyes can be cared for. If we were refracting only as most patients want us to do the pt would not be receiving the quality of HEALTH care that they deserve.
    All that being said personally I feel we should be refracting but come up with a program that we HAVE to refer the patient every 2 years for a eye health exam before another refraction can be done. That way OD's, MD,s, and LDO,s all get a share of the pie. After all OD,s are constantly pushing to do more and more (and getting) to do more of things that MD,s are doing. Opticians need to be doing the same thing.
    Agree on the refracting, if properly trained. A good optician would also know when to refer for an ocular health exam, even if less than 2 years.

    Look at Dental Hygienists. It was recently ruled (Ontario) they can perform a cleaning without a dental health exam. It's about access to care. If I want my teeth cleaned, but I don't want to pay for x-rays and an exam, I should be allowed to obtain that service on its own.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 10-08-2015, 05:05 AM
  2. Slow months
    By Uni-Clip in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-26-2007, 08:43 PM
  3. 9-11 six Months Later
    By Cindy Hamlin in forum Just Conversation
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-15-2002, 06:59 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OptiBoard is proudly sponsored by:
Younger Optics and Vision Equipment