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Thread: Essilor/Clearly Injunction Update

  1. #1
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    Essilor/Clearly Injunction Update

    Sent by the COOptometrists today.

    Dear Members,
    I am pleased to update you that the application to seek an injunction preventing Essilor/Clearly from unlawfully dispensing prescription eyewear over the internet was successful. The College of Optometrists and the College of Opticians jointly filed the application in December 2016 and the matter was heard October 11, 2017. Justice Lederer delivered his decision January 11, 2018 in favour of the two regulatory colleges.
    Although we are still reviewing the decision in detail, we are pleased that the court has agreed with the position of the colleges on the questions we brought forward. The two colleges are motivated by, and required by legislation to maintain, patient safety and the public interest. It is possible that the company may appeal the decision – that is their option. If the company does appeal, the colleges will continue to defend the public interest in court.
    The colleges believe that the internet can be an effective tool for the provision of vision care, however the dispensing of corrective lenses is a controlled act, subject to Ontario legislation, that definitively requires a regulated health professional’s involvement. Mail order over the internet without the involvement of an optometrist or optician is inconsistent with legislation.
    The role of the colleges is to regulate the practice of optometry and opticianry to maintain and enhance public safety. The colleges do not have any bias in the dispensing of corrective lenses, or where those lenses are dispensed, as long as legislation and regulations are respected and standards are met.
    Regards,
    Dr. Paula Garshowitz
    Registrar

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    Curious about your experiences WRT this.

    I've kinda noticed that PD requests really haven't "picked up" in the way everyone expected to say 5 years ago. I get a PD request every few months. So maybe 3-4/year, tops. And I'd say that's even slightly down from say 2012-2013 (where I'd get maybe 6-7 requests/year).

    Seems like there are those who want to get their glasses online, but it hasn't been a runaway train. Seems to me online glasses has basically plateaued.

  3. #3
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    I would agree.

    I used to work at Eyemart and now I work for an independent. Eyemart's business use to be booming here. I'm talking a packed store all day everyday. Then people who bought there either had a bad customer experience or noticed a downgrade in quality and all those people trying to get the lowest price started coming back.

    Nowadays, we have the same story but in regards to online purchases vs. discount stores.

    Not too many inquires for PDs but more and more people will question why they or their friend/ loved one had such a bad experience from online glasses. It seems to be more of an openly discussed topic now instead of beating around the bush.

    Not in Canada, but close enough maybe?
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    I work at an Optometrist office and we do get P.D. requests but not very often. I feel like the people that took the biggest hits from online are the discount stores like Hakim, walmart ect.

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    Blue Jumper Use our PDCapture technology to measure it for you, directions below.................




    What is PD?





    • Pupil distance can be expressed in two ways:
      • Binocular PD is the total distance between your pupils.
      • Monocular PD is the distance from the bridge of your nose to your pupil on each side. A monocular PD measurement will be two numbers.?? FramesDirect.com can use either of these measurements to custom-make your prescription lenses.

    • Don't have a PD measurement? You can...
    • Contact your optometrist or
    • Use our PDCapture technology to measure it for you, directions below.


    Source:
    https://www.framesdirect.com/landing...u-need-pd.html
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by jc17777 View Post
    I feel like the people that took the biggest hits from online are the discount stores like Hakim, walmart ect.
    Honestly, this is counter-intuitive to me. People go to Walmart because prices there are cheap, or at least they are viewed as being inexpensive. If someone is on a budget, they'll either go online, or go to Walmart and get glasses for $60. If you're telling me they are opting to not spend $60 at WM, and instead, going online and paying $45, I'm pretty much going to disagree with you. Although you may argue that those who go online are going for the "cheapest price", I'm going to counter that those folks who don't have the means to pay >$200 for glasses, are probably not that tech-savvy, and are probably going to buy their glasses at WM.

    I don't bundle Hakim and WM together as Hakim isn't actually particularly cheap, despite their reputation for being so. I'm pretty sure you're paying >$200 for SV in most cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post



    What is PD?





    • Pupil distance can be expressed in two ways:
      • Binocular PD is the total distance between your pupils.
      • Monocular PD is the distance from the bridge of your nose to your pupil on each side. A monocular PD measurement will be two numbers.?? FramesDirect.com can use either of these measurements to custom-make your prescription lenses.

    • Don't have a PD measurement? You can...
    • Contact your optometrist or
    • Use our PDCapture technology to measure it for you, directions below.


    Source:
    https://www.framesdirect.com/landing...u-need-pd.html
    I helped Beta test this system when they were developing it at framesdirect, it is highly accurate. We ran hundreds of PDs through this system and were usually within 1 mm from actual measured. You should see the things they were doing with seg heights as well.

    P.s. I no longer work there, so please don't hate me

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    It's so nice seeing the Colleges enjoying their group hug and atta-boys. Too bad its members have to pay the legals for this and the fact it's about 15 years too late. Now Clearly will simply appeal the decision and drag it out choking the Colleges out financially.

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    Did the transcript testimony admit to 700,000 pairs of eyewear being sold in Ontario since 2008 or is that incorrect ? If it's correct that's a lot of coin let
    taken on top of legal costs.

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    Redhot Jumper P.s. I no longer work there, so please don't hate me ................................

    Quote Originally Posted by acesrwylde View Post

    I helped Beta test this system when they were developing it at framesdirect, it is highly accurate. We ran hundreds of PDs through this system and were usually within 1 mm from actual measured. You should see the things they were doing with seg heights as well.

    P.s. I no longer work there, so please don't hate me




    .............................you are now a converted sinner and we love you for it.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    .............................you are now a converted sinner and we love you for it.
    bahahahaha...the first of many to follow and sing like canaries.

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    This is terrifying to me - if the seg heights and PD are accurate, then that's a huge percentage of people who will be happy with their online purchase.

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    Blue Jumper This is terrifying to me - if the seg heights and PD are accurate ...................

    Quote Originally Posted by Trina View Post

    This is terrifying to me - if the seg heights and PD are accurate, then that's a huge percentage of people who will be happy with their online purchase.


    To bad you are not located in Ontario were they are now prohibited from selling online.

    However I can not figure how they will enforce that judgement.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Blue Jumper Essilor hit with online ban ..............................

    Essilor hit with online ban
    Author: Luke Haynes
    Published: 19/01/20182


    Essilor Canada and its retail portal Clearly have been banned from ‘unlawfully dispensing’ prescription eyewear on the internet in Ontario after two of the country’s regulatory establishments, the College of Optometrists and the College of Opticians,successfully applied for an injunction.

    The regulatory colleges filed for the injunction in December 2016 and the matter was heard in October 2017, with a verdict reached last week.


    In a statement, the Colleges said: ‘We believe the internet can be an effective tool for the provision of vision care, however, the dispensing of corrective lenses is a controlled act, subject to Ontario legislation, that definitely requires a regulated health professional’s involvement. Mail order over the internet without the involvement of an optometrist or optician is inconsistent with legislation.’

    source:
    https://www.opticianonline.net/news/...ith-online-ban
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Did the judge, in his/her ruling give an example of how the offending parties websites might all be banned on a world wide basis by GOOGLE ? Why wasn’t done many years ago? When did it first came to light ?

    What’s the award for legal costs ?

    How many eyeglasses and contact lenses were dispensed in the offending period of time ?

    What’s the penalty for illegally dispensing huge quantities deemed illegal by a judgement?

    How does this penalty compare to what individual optometrists or opticians have paid for minor quantity infractions of this nature ?

    How will the members of the 2 colleges be individually reimbursed for their losses ?

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    Blue Jumper example of how the offending parties websites might all be banned....................

    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post

    Did the judge, in his/her ruling give an example of how the offending parties websites might all be banned on a world wide basis by GOOGLE ? Why wasn’t done many years ago? When did it first came to light ?

    As far as I can see, the judge in this case has no authority over the internet whatsoever, neither has Google who lists more of the better sites than others, while they can punish somebody, by not listing them for one reason or another.

    It takes a lot of work and effort to get ranked into the top of Google ranking, and stay there.

    A successful website is not judged by its content, if it is not offending, but by the visitors they are getting. Pure mathematics and publicity.
    Chris Ryser
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    Read the judges decision then, you might be quite surprised.

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    Blue Jumper Whatever the judge decided, there are higher courts ..............................

    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post

    Read the judges decision then, you might be quite surprised.


    Whatever the judge decided, there are higher courts if you have enough cash for the lawyers and judges......................and you also can starve the colleges of ODs and Opticians of cash, you have heavily supported for the last 30 years.

    We have just entered the last or second last month before the decision falls on the biggest optical merger ever.

    Do you still see any privately owned gas stations on each side of the Atlantic or around the Mediterranean ? They have all been gobbled up by the big oil companies. The trend of globalisation is well under way for a while and in a well prepared manner.

    I would never have dreamed of it when I picked up the big chief of the then "ESSEL" with his wife, in the New York harbor in 1964 who arrived on the newest liner "France" staying in the presidential suite during the trip and then drove them to Montreal through the Adirondacks on the old highway.

    These days everything is done many times faster and the world is more progressive in everything, and in commerce is ruthless and fast. Independents are being replaced by monster companies.
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    Sounds like no one read the judgement reasons and no one read what the judge suggested for banning their web sites through google world wide.

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    Blue Jumper no one read what the judge suggested for banning their web sites.....................

    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post

    Sounds like no one read the judgement reasons and no one read what the judge suggested for banning their web sites through google world wide.

    I would like to learn how you can ban a website through Google. The internet as far as I learned has been launched and operated by the USA since its existence.

    Google does not have the power to prohibit a website from publishing the information they want out on the internet, nor close it down.

    All Google could do is to stop to hand out all and any information on a website.
    Chris Ryser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    I would like to learn how you can ban a website through Google. The internet as far as I learned has been launched and operated by the USA since its existence.

    Google does not have the power to prohibit a website from publishing the information they want out on the internet, nor close it down.

    All Google could do is to stop to hand out all and any information on a website.
    Google would have to be served a court order but what would that really accomplish? Absolutely nothing as it's not Google's issue or liability at stake. Besides, that would only happen if the accused continued to operate after they lost their appeal and in disregard for the court order to shut down.

    It's highly unlikely to occur - the appeal has already been filed and one of two things will happen next:

    1. Their lawyers will simply now wither down the two colleges until they tap out or get choked out. 'Clearly' will continue to operate just as they are right now during the appeal process. Or,

    2. They will reach an out of court settlement where a substantial amount of funds will be given (donated) to the colleges to shut up and go away quietly - aka hush money.

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    Redhot Jumper you just hit the nail on its head again ! ................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Lab Insight View Post

    It's highly unlikely to occur - the appeal has already been filed and one of two things will happen next:

    1. Their lawyers will simply now wither down the two colleges until they tap out or get choked out. 'Clearly' will continue to operate just as they are right now during the appeal process. Or,

    2. They will reach an out of court settlement where a substantial amount of funds will be given (donated) to the colleges to shut up and go away quietly - aka hush money.



    Lab Insight..............you just hit the nail on its head again !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Lab Insight..............you just hit the nail on its head again !

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    Go to either College websites and you can read the 31 pages of the judge’s decision there. Read it carefully and slowly when you get to the part of Google and how it’s been done before. These and other cases are well documented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    Go to either College websites and you can read the 31 pages of the judge’s decision there. Read it carefully and slowly when you get to the part of Google and how it’s been done before. These and other cases are well documented.
    https://infoclip.ca/wp-content/uploa...ce_Lederer.pdf

    IMHO,

    1. Selling is not dispensing.
    2. The RHPA act is far outdated with today's consumer's sales channels.
    3. There is a market of 'bottom feeder' consumers that willingly choose to order from the web to save money.
    4. Essilor did the right things with those orders and provided assistance where needed.
    5. Although other cases are well documented, there should be no influence from such on this appeal and final decision.
    6. There has never been a single case documented of someone being injured or killed caused by self influenced web eyewear.

    I get that people want to protect their own entities and self preservation, however that should have no bearing. Any brick and mortar office is legally entitled to sell glasses online, yet not many have not taken the leap to do so. Yet, when a large innovative company starts to do so, then the BM office get upset.

    The two colleges are far outdated and borderline antiquated. They need to get with the times and technology for today's consumers. If their mandate is to protect the public, why have they not been more saavy in keeping pace to do so and keeping their legislation current with today's consumer demands???

    Essilor will win or settle the appeal guaranteed. A different judge will not have the same opinion as Lederer.

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