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Thread: Tintability of various lens materials.

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    Tintability of various lens materials.

    Hello, I've been out of the optical business for some years and will be re-entering in the near future. I'll be doing what I did before, dispensing and finish work. I remember that various lens materials varied in how easily they tint, for example, uncoated CR-39 quite easily, while high index, more difficult. Also, different brands of CR-39 scratch coated stock lenses would tint differently. Some feedback on tintability of the following materials would be appreciated: Trivex, Polycarbonate and high index of all indices. Also, the most popular stock CR-39 scratch coated lenses and how each brand compares in ease or difficulty with tinting.

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    I wouldn't worry about it too much, we don't tint lenses much, like we did years ago!

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    There are also some fantastic fixed tint polycarbonates that have the tint inside the material, for nice colors that doesn't ever fade.

    I do a fair amount of actual tinting though, in my experience the only stock lenses that will really take a tint are CR39 or Poly that is listed as having a tintable coat. Trivex tints great, but I've never seen a stock trivex that has a good tintable coat, so I only tint surfaced and make sure they know I intend to tint it.

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    [QUOTE=controlvoice;542947]Hello, I've been out of the optical business for some years and will be re-entering in the near future. I'll be doing what I did before, dispensing and finish work. I remember that various lens materials varied in how easily they tint, for example, uncoated CR-39 quite easily, while high index, more difficult. Also, different brands of CR-39 scratch coated stock lenses would tint differently. Some feedback on tintability of the following materials would be appreciated: Trivex, Polycarbonate and high index of all indices. Also, the most popular stock CR-39 scratch coated lenses and how each brand compares in ease or difficulty with t.[/QUOTE

    To the best of my knowledge only Cr 39 uncoated actually absorb the dye. All other lenses you are tinting the coating which varies widely. Sometimes even lenses from the same mfg. will tint differently. It's going to be trail and error.

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    Trivex actually absorbs the dye as well, but only if the coating doesn't block it from entering the lens.

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    (Sorry for my English I'm learning it..and optometry too)
    Ii depends by 2 factor.

    Material and coating.

    Cr39 itself can be tint about 90-92% usually.

    If you coat it with an hard scretching layer it depends by this one..

    The lens can be untintable (usually non tintable coating is harder to scretch) tintable max 20-50-60% it depends, each lens manufactor use a different formula.. you have to ask to the lab of each productor.

    Usually hardcoat cr39 is max 60% tintable.


    Than..

    Polycarbonate cannot be tint itself... you can only tint on surface the hard coat (if you put on it a tintable hard coat..) uasually is hard to tint.. but some product (I remember optima resolution) is easy to tint even darker (70-75%)

    By the way the tint is not so durable like other materials (you tint only the hard coat)

    Trivex is not tintable (unless you use a coating for example a mirror) some lab say that is a way to tint it but it is expansive and complicated.

    For the same reason I didn't saw a tintable hard coat for trivex (I don't know in usa.. I talk for europe)

    But you can get it in polarized version or nxt brand create filters in mass-coloured.

    Hi index
    Tribrid by ppg I don't know if it is tintable.

    For 1.74 (I believe in Usa it don't pass fda dbt and is not sell) see the poly answer over..
    For
    1.57/1.6/1.67 it depend by hard coat but only few brands xan be tint darker (usually 70-75% max)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    Trivex actually absorbs the dye as well, but only if the coating doesn't block it from entering the lens.
    Hi Tallboy, you really dye the trivex well? you use uncoated trivex?

    Here where I live I cannot try.. trivex is sell only with non tintable dip hardcoat in batch by all manufactors

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    Quote Originally Posted by dima View Post
    Hi Tallboy, you really dye the trivex well? you use uncoated trivex?

    Here where I live I cannot try.. trivex is sell only with non tintable dip hardcoat in batch by all manufactors
    yeah it tints like a dream, but not if it has a super hard non porous hard coat, then the tint only absorbs on the edges of the lens. That is how I know it actually tints, the tint will absorb in through the edges of the lens even on a super hardcoat / AR one. This will not work with Poly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    Trivex actually absorbs the dye as well, but only if the coating doesn't block it from entering the lens.
    News to me. How were you able to get ahold of an uncoated Trivex lens? If it was a SF lens and you surfaced it the back may??? absorb the tint but you wouldn't want to dispense it as it would scratch very easily.

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    Uncoated trivex is so easy to scratch? Maybe a lab can tint the lens and after coat it in dip bath? I guess I dont know

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    The only ophthalmic plastic material that you can actually tint ( the material itself) is CR. ( Yes, trivex raw will tint, but many times it can come out splotchy.) All materials other than CR have SRC's (scratch resistant coating) and even then, most CR sold has an SRC. Poly, hi-indexs and trivex is too soft and would scratch too easily without the coatings.

    So, when you are tinting, you are tinting the SRC on the lens. SRC's are microns thin, this is why it's extremely difficult to get very dark tints on all but CR. ( CR with a tintable SRC can be made darker because the tint is absorbed past the SRC somewhat into the material itself). there are 2 main type of hard coats. Spin type SRC's tend to be soft and tintable ( The softer the SRC, the more tintable, but also easier to scratch....) as compared to lacquer (dip coats) which are much harder. They are generally not tintable, they aren't "soft" enough to absorb a tint. But they perform much better in scratch resistancy. TD2 is an example of a lacquer SRC.

    So basically, tintability isn't material dependent but SRC used dependent (with above disclaimers about CR)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gilman View Post
    News to me. How were you able to get ahold of an uncoated Trivex lens? If it was a SF lens and you surfaced it the back may??? absorb the tint but you wouldn't want to dispense it as it would scratch very easily.

    The edges of the lens is what I'm referring too, I thought my lab will tint raw trivex and then coat it it for me.

    Maybe I am really really wrong here though! I will gladly admit that to you guys!

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    Sorry for my redundant post. Everybody above has quicker fingers than me!

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    We tint plastic, trivex, 1.56, and 1.6.

    1.56 is rare but tints amazingly well.

    Trivex works okay for us. A good alternative to poly. We surface, so I'm guessing that's why it works so well compared to others' experiences.

    1.60 works okay but has to be watched like a hawk and done in very small time increments to avoid any blotchiness.

    In the case of tinting Trivex and 1.60, we do hard coat and edge before tinting. Trying to tint uncoated lenses has lead to many redos in the past for damage to the lens.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    A question to the tinting gurus here that I just thought of, why does MR have 2 different types of 1.67 resin, one listed as a better tinting version than the other? If it is only about the coatings and not substrate absorption as well what's the deal? My guess would be expansion of the 1.67 substrate leading to crazing.

    I don't really tint 1.67 or 1.60 often, but the best polarized lens makers do

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    I don't work on the wholesale or lens production side but I think when we(retail, finishing lab, optician side) talk about only tinting the hardcoat it is because we can't get lenses without some kind of hardcoat. I believe Mitsui would be referring to tinting the cast blanks before they are hardcoated?

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    Poly creates the biggest headache for our lab. People will order sunglasses. Only the coating absorbs the tint. When it is dark enough for a decent sun lens the coating is so saturated with tint particles that it compromises the durability of the hard coat. After a short period of time the coating has broken down so much that the coating, along with the tint, scratches of very easily. Often we coat the front surface , or the surfaces of non tintable finished lenses to help maintain some of the durability of the coating. Best use polarized for sunglasses whenever possible.

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    There are some BEAUTIFUL fixed tint poly lenses out there, in perfect brown and gray, yellow, amber, orange, green, rose ... I will never tint a poly lens again unless its a quick dip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    There are some BEAUTIFUL fixed tint poly lenses out there, in perfect brown and gray, yellow, amber, orange, green, rose ... I will never tint a poly lens again unless its a quick dip.
    Being a wholesale Lab, we provide many designs from many different manufacturers. A quick dip, or a couple of hours (shoot, a couple afternoons) in a tint vat will do nothing to typical finished poly lens. Fixed tints are just not practical for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
    Being a wholesale Lab, we provide many designs from many different manufacturers. A quick dip, or a couple of hours (shoot, a couple afternoons) in a tint vat will do nothing to typical finished poly lens. Fixed tints are just not practical for us.
    Im confused. Why dont you offer poly lenses with a fixed tint? (I'm talking about the lenses with tint mixed with the substrate and/or a non polarized film? They are PERFECT for todays freeform pal designs and allow a good hard coat and easy AR application compared to tinting a hardcoat and trying to AR coat it afterwards. It's a great product. And available at about the cost of a bottle of premium tint ( to me the finishing/dispenser)

    Essilor doesn't have one though. (they do offer xperio polarized 1.60 though which I'm pretty sure has tint in the substrate during some point of the process, much like NXT trivex polar lenses, or any number of cr39 polar lenses. At least thats what I think I see

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    Im confused. Why dont you offer poly lenses with a fixed tint? (I'm talking about the lenses with tint mixed with the substrate and/or a non polarized film? They are PERFECT for todays freeform pal designs and allow a good hard coat and easy AR application compared to tinting a hardcoat and trying to AR coat it afterwards. It's a great product. And available at about the cost of a bottle of premium tint ( to me the finishing/dispenser)

    Essilor doesn't have one though. (they do offer xperio polarized 1.60 though which I'm pretty sure has tint in the substrate during some point of the process, much like NXT trivex polar lenses, or any number of cr39 polar lenses. At least thats what I think I see
    We utilize Brn 3, Gry3 and G-15 fixed tint poly in SV and FF at our lab. And yes, these are Essilor lenses, Airwear Colors. Unlike some of the other available lenses, these do not behave like tinted glass. The color is consistent throughout, regardless of RX. They do cost more per lens compared to clear poly, but the amount of labor and time saved is awesome and well worth it. And as you stated TB, perfect for our FF SV and PAL designs, plus, AR is a cinch with these. Bonus, the colors are repeatable, so one eye remakes are no problem!

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    Good to know about airwear colors, i always thought it was another product i was using. They are nice! Only recently have I seen the shooters yellow ones!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    Im confused. Why dont you offer poly lenses with a fixed tint? (I'm talking about the lenses with tint mixed with the substrate and/or a non polarized film? They are PERFECT for todays freeform pal designs and allow a good hard coat and easy AR application compared to tinting a hardcoat and trying to AR coat it afterwards. It's a great product. And available at about the cost of a bottle of premium tint ( to me the finishing/dispenser)

    Essilor doesn't have one though. (they do offer xperio polarized 1.60 though which I'm pretty sure has tint in the substrate during some point of the process, much like NXT trivex polar lenses, or any number of cr39 polar lenses. At least thats what I think I see
    Not enough demand to justify.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lensmanmd View Post
    We utilize Brn 3, Gry3 and G-15 fixed tint poly in SV and FF at our lab. And yes, these are Essilor lenses, Airwear Colors. Unlike some of the other available lenses, these do not behave like tinted glass. The color is consistent throughout, regardless of RX. They do cost more per lens compared to clear poly, but the amount of labor and time saved is awesome and well worth it. And as you stated TB, perfect for our FF SV and PAL designs, plus, AR is a cinch with these. Bonus, the colors are repeatable, so one eye remakes are no problem!
    I second this! A great go to when the patient doesn't want to upgrade to polar or an optician makes a slip up in ordering.

    The only time we actually tint poly is if someone has requested the polar to be a hair darker or a slight gradient.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    KbCO and Younger also make Gradient Polars, which makes life so much easier when the patients requests a gradient sun pair.

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