Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Chemistrie Clips with a flat base curve...

  1. #1
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    At a position without dimension...
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    4,136

    Chemistrie Clips with a flat base curve...

    Are you getting Chem Clips with plano bases?

    I can see where they may be needed to keep the clip proud of some frames fronts but I seem to be getting jobs where it winds up scratching lenses.

    Anyone else seen this lately?

  2. #2
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Seaford, NY USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    5,718
    The 2 base lenses can flatten a bit if you’ve heated them at all to help remove their protective film

    B

  3. #3
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tx.
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    5,140
    To avoid chem clips scratching primary lenses, check the following:

    Select the proper base curve for the sun lens. ( you may have a 2 base ft bifocal, but the segment is a 4 base. Go up to a 4 base sun layer).

    The magnet in the primary lens should be about a half mm above the primary lenses surface.

    The sun lenses magnet hole should be chamfered from the front and magnet snapped in from the front so it protrudes slightly out the back. Doing the above 2 things lets the layer hover over the primary lenses 3/4ths-1mm.

    One of the most important things to do at dispense is to instruct the client to put the clip in its case “with the curve”. The case has a slight wrap curve. So do the clips. As Barry pointed out heat, along with putting the clip in “backwards” will put pressure on the clip lenses causing them to flatten.

  4. #4
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,554
    Fester, are you getting this from Eyenavision directly? Or one of their contract labs?

  5. #5
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Maryland
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,522
    I feel like the scared kid standing on the cement outside the deep end of the pool. I've waited years on the chemestrie thung. It really does work for you guys?

  6. #6
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,554
    Amazingly well here.

  7. #7
    OptiBoard Professional Caroline's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    CT
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    141
    I love the Chemistrie clips. I don't have a finishing lab here, so they all get made at the lab, it really depends on the skill of who's making them. I enjoy selling them to really high plus patients and showing them how the back of the clip never touches the front of their lenses, unlike the ones they've had in the past.
    Caroline, L.O.

    If you suffer from severe nonlinear waterfowl issues, you don't have your ducks in a row.

  8. #8
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    At a position without dimension...
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    4,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    The 2 base lenses can flatten a bit if you’ve heated them at all to help remove their protective film

    B
    I'll bet it's this.

    Happening from independent lab/s.

    I get $165 for them tallboy, and they do well.

    $120 for lenses $45 for lens magnets.

    I can fix them myself but the short bushing can be a bear to set into the sun lens at least for these fat fingers!

    You should order the compression pliers and a supply of bushings to have on hand even if you sent it out.
    Magnets come in 2 sizes and a spare couple should be in your lab for the occasional glued mag that comes out and gets lost.

    Biggest drawback is the distracting magnet in the rx lens. I always point it out so it doesn't come back to bite me.

    Obviously the fashion conscious notice it much more than the function conscious- Recommend get more than one sun lens clip so they can leave them in each of their cars!!!
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 01-09-2018 at 12:28 PM.

  9. #9
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tx.
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    5,140
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post



    I can fix them myself but the short bushing can be a bear to set into the sun lens at least for these fat fingers!
    Fester, I use my Silhouette bushing clippers to hold the bushing while putting it into the layers. (fat fingers here too! )

  10. #10
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,554
    The magnet thing is funny really. Just like nose pad arms, they're far too close to the eye to be able to focus on them at all. In addition, they're way out in the peripheral vision where they're even less noticeable. It's really only the most anal retentive of pt's looking for any excuse to complain / demand money back that I've even heard it be an issue. And frankly, I can count her on 1 finger and really think it the reality was her husband freaked out about cost, and wasn't ever really about the clip at all (have been dispensing them since 2010 in two different practices). YMMV as always, but the magnets and their placement really haven't been an issue for us at all.

    Fitment can be an issue, particularly if the lab's finishing department isn't competent in the system. Seems to vary widely from one lab to another. When they're done well, the absolutely cannot be beat! I also agree on the multiple pair option. I have the silver mirror, and the solid brown polar lenses myself, which are great when the light here changes.

    I've also done some creative splitting of add powers with the reading clips as well. One patient, for example, wanted a PAL but only wanted intermediate in the regular reading zone for his work. So we split the power, and put half the normal add in the PAL. The remaining add power went into a reading clip, and he was then able to use the glasses as intermediate (up top) and full near (at the bottom) when he was doing extended desk/computer/near tasks. He loved the flexibility.

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter lensmanmd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Maryland
    Occupation
    Optical Wholesale Lab (other positions)
    Posts
    449
    These are all great tips.

    We just went through training, as we are contemplating adding these to our offerings. I have created several trial demos, and have heard the same things. The magnets are only distracting when looking in the mirror, not when wearing them. Our trial users love them, as do i.

    Still working on pricing and options, as I am not too keen on offering all options. We have several edgers that are Chem ready, and as much as I love my MEI, our E-6 is much more user friendly when it comes to Chemistrie. Still waiting on the EX3 to be Chem ready (and delivered).

    Once we are up up and running, we will see how well these move.

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    449
    I have received batches of "2 base" lenses that were definitely flattened to zero, a few were so bad they were actually concave!! These were uncut stock from Eyenavision. I think they were just packed tight in storage too long and got bent (or rather unbent). They replaced them, but the guy pulling the stock for me admitted he had a hard time finding ones that weren't flat either.

  13. #13
    Ghost in the OptiMachine OptiBoard Silver Supporter Quince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sebago ME
    Occupation
    Optical Laboratory Technician
    Posts
    706
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    I feel like the scared kid standing on the cement outside the deep end of the pool. I've waited years on the chemestrie thung. It really does work for you guys?

    People don't like to wait in my neck of the woods- so even though it's a good deal, they can't handle giving up their frame for 2-3 weeks. IF you ever have a redo- good luck. They like to do the minimal work so they will literally do one lens at a time and not care that there is no good way to get the lenses to line up again. If you have a finicky patient- keep them away from Chemistrie! They will never be satisfied with the distance of the lens vs. clip/ any edge exposure/ the height of the magnets/ and so on.

    Overall, I like them and plan on keeping it as an option though they are few and far between here. It's probably for the better, whereas experience has taught me to tell some (picky) people that it would not be a good fit for them.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

  14. #14
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,554
    Quince - sounds like you many need a different lab! Ours can do a refit of either mag on new base lenses, or make a new clip that was lost fairly simply...and it certainly doesn't take 2-3 weeks! If nothing else, just like any other POF, have the lab get everything ready first, then call your pt for the frame. They may be out 3-4 days at most, barring Murphy's Law getting involved. If you don't like 'standard' magnet placement for a given frame, you can usually ask the lab to adjust placement (within reason) to you/your pt's liking. Unless you're fitting a grown adult in a 39 eye round metal, there really is no reason any normal person would even really perceive the mags, let alone bark at you about them.

  15. #15
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    none
    Occupation
    Other Eyecare-Related Field
    Posts
    1,305
    The best suggestion i have for those making chem clips, standardize your mag placement. i know tons of people who like to move the mag for every frame and *customize* the fit. The down side to customizing every one for optimal placement is the reproduceability being comprimised. Chemistrie is a layered system, the goal should be multiple layers so reproduceability is key for ultimate satisfaction, more so then customized placement in many cases. Of course the occasional job will break the rule, but live and die by a rule and you can reproduce and have a clip in office without the need for taking away someones eyewear.

    For anyone making a retrofit where you need to set magnets into an already edged set of lenses, make the clip first by retracing, upsizing and creating the clip lenses then use a blocking pad to align the clip lens to the base lens as a template and hand drill the base lens. I like to put a piece of masking tape on the drill bit at my inteded depth so i can get consistent results. Another tip, you can buy a drill bit at the right diameter for the lens mag for retrofits but often the tip profile is wrong, either search for plunge cut router bits or file the point off the tip and sharpen the fluted edges of the bottom tip to avoid burns. Use a cheap drill rig from harbor freight to drill dont try actual *hand drilling*.
    http://www.opticians.cc

    Creator of the industries 1st HTML5 Browser based tracer software.
    Creator of the industries 1st Mac tracer software.
    Creator of the industries 1st Linux tracer software.

  16. #16
    Ghost in the OptiMachine OptiBoard Silver Supporter Quince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sebago ME
    Occupation
    Optical Laboratory Technician
    Posts
    706
    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Quince - sounds like you many need a different lab! Ours can do a refit of either mag on new base lenses, or make a new clip that was lost fairly simply...and it certainly doesn't take 2-3 weeks! If nothing else, just like any other POF, have the lab get everything ready first, then call your pt for the frame. They may be out 3-4 days at most, barring Murphy's Law getting involved. If you don't like 'standard' magnet placement for a given frame, you can usually ask the lab to adjust placement (within reason) to you/your pt's liking. Unless you're fitting a grown adult in a 39 eye round metal, there really is no reason any normal person would even really perceive the mags, let alone bark at you about them.
    You are probably right- I will have to look into different locations for future use. It's good to know that isn't a company wide fault.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

  17. #17
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Seaford, NY USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    5,718
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeOptics View Post
    The best suggestion i have for those making chem clips, standardize your mag placement. i know tons of people who like to move the mag for every frame and *customize* the fit. The down side to customizing every one for optimal placement is the reproduceability being comprimised. Chemistrie is a layered system, the goal should be multiple layers so reproduceability is key for ultimate satisfaction, more so then customized placement in many cases. Of course the occasional job will break the rule, but live and die by a rule and you can reproduce and have a clip in office without the need for taking away someones eyewear.

    For anyone making a retrofit where you need to set magnets into an already edged set of lenses, make the clip first by retracing, upsizing and creating the clip lenses then use a blocking pad to align the clip lens to the base lens as a template and hand drill the base lens. I like to put a piece of masking tape on the drill bit at my inteded depth so i can get consistent results. Another tip, you can buy a drill bit at the right diameter for the lens mag for retrofits but often the tip profile is wrong, either search for plunge cut router bits or file the point off the tip and sharpen the fluted edges of the bottom tip to avoid burns. Use a cheap drill rig from harbor freight to drill dont try actual *hand drilling*.
    Have to disagree here, Make.

    I roll my own, and record the following values on the client’s record for easy reproduction:

    1. Magnet Offset - related to Base Curve of lens and occasionally, endpiece of frame.
    2. Clip lens offset - How much larger than finished size of Rx lenses the clip layer lens will be. Ranges from 0.0 for Computer layers to 1.5mm for selected frames. Nominal value: 0.8mm - 1.0mm
    3. Target bridge value - In Chemestrie software, this value is the distance between the outer mount8ng studs of the bridge.
    4. Nasal Placement - How much above midpoint (1/2 B) the bridge is placed.
    5. Temporal placement - How much above midpoint (1/2 B) the temporal magnet is placed
    6. Temporal adjustment - How much devistion from standard (Current temporal magnet default = 4mm from layer edge to centerline of layer magnet) temporal magnet has been adjusted (Average value: 1mm outboard/3mm magnet centerline)
    7. Final bridge used - due to several variables, mostly related to frame wrap angle, I note the size of the final bridge used and its color.
    8. Misc - Any spacer magnets or jewels used.

    In addition, we “save” the EXACT frame tracing used in memory under client’s name to eliminate axis and other variables.

    Easy Peasy, when you get used to rhythm of it. I can have a client call me to replace a clip and I will have it same dat...all without leaving their eyewear....ever.

    This is what every optician shoukd be striving for today.

    B

  18. #18
    Rising Star
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    usa
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Have to disagree here, Make.

    I roll my own, and record the following values on the client’s record for easy reproduction:

    1. Magnet Offset - related to Base Curve of lens and occasionally, endpiece of frame.
    2. Clip lens offset - How much larger than finished size of Rx lenses the clip layer lens will be. Ranges from 0.0 for Computer layers to 1.5mm for selected frames. Nominal value: 0.8mm - 1.0mm
    3. Target bridge value - In Chemestrie software, this value is the distance between the outer mount8ng studs of the bridge.
    4. Nasal Placement - How much above midpoint (1/2 B) the bridge is placed.
    5. Temporal placement - How much above midpoint (1/2 B) the temporal magnet is placed
    6. Temporal adjustment - How much devistion from standard (Current temporal magnet default = 4mm from layer edge to centerline of layer magnet) temporal magnet has been adjusted (Average value: 1mm outboard/3mm magnet centerline)
    7. Final bridge used - due to several variables, mostly related to frame wrap angle, I note the size of the final bridge used and its color.
    8. Misc - Any spacer magnets or jewels used.

    In addition, we “save” the EXACT frame tracing used in memory under client’s name to eliminate axis and other variables.

    Easy Peasy, when you get used to rhythm of it. I can have a client call me to replace a clip and I will have it same dat...all without leaving their eyewear....ever.

    This is what every optician shoukd be striving for today.

    B
    +1. This is how I do it. Although I might not be as meticulous as you, Barry. I assume you also record the base curve and color of the clip lens used.

  19. #19
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Seaford, NY USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    5,718
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    +1. This is how I do it. Although I might not be as meticulous as you, Barry. I assume you also record the base curve and color of the clip lens used.
    Yes, I left that out. Thank you.

  20. #20
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    none
    Occupation
    Other Eyecare-Related Field
    Posts
    1,305
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Have to disagree here, Make.

    I roll my own, and record the following values on the client’s record for easy reproduction:

    1. Magnet Offset - related to Base Curve of lens and occasionally, endpiece of frame.
    2. Clip lens offset - How much larger than finished size of Rx lenses the clip layer lens will be. Ranges from 0.0 for Computer layers to 1.5mm for selected frames. Nominal value: 0.8mm - 1.0mm
    3. Target bridge value - In Chemestrie software, this value is the distance between the outer mount8ng studs of the bridge.
    4. Nasal Placement - How much above midpoint (1/2 B) the bridge is placed.
    5. Temporal placement - How much above midpoint (1/2 B) the temporal magnet is placed
    6. Temporal adjustment - How much devistion from standard (Current temporal magnet default = 4mm from layer edge to centerline of layer magnet) temporal magnet has been adjusted (Average value: 1mm outboard/3mm magnet centerline)
    7. Final bridge used - due to several variables, mostly related to frame wrap angle, I note the size of the final bridge used and its color.
    8. Misc - Any spacer magnets or jewels used.

    In addition, we “save” the EXACT frame tracing used in memory under client’s name to eliminate axis and other variables.

    Easy Peasy, when you get used to rhythm of it. I can have a client call me to replace a clip and I will have it same dat...all without leaving their eyewear....ever.

    This is what every optician shoukd be striving for today.

    B
    I dont see how we disagree, when necessary customization is a good thing. I just make sure that customizing the placement of default magnet placements are not done willy nilly. i know people that will move them because its their preference. I wont move them unless a benefit exists and make sure everyone is aware of default values and placements. Can customize, should customize, need to customize are three very different things. I love the fact that you archive your traces its inconceivable to think all people dont do that today. The magnet offset is an interesting concept that I dont think people completely understand. I like to use the base curve radius of the clip to generate a scalar value to apply to the clip magnet placement to create the true clip magnet value. i generally use 0.75 mm for the lens front to clip back distance to generate the scaler. I also standardized my scaler to 1mm increments to apply to the distance from edge which means i only need 1 scaler value per clip base curve. I have seen people use fudge factors, where they use a similar method but apply anecdotally compiled offsets to the magnet placements and swear by it but when I give them the proper algo and scaler jobs get more consistent, wraps no longer need fudging, bridge sizes become more predictable before cutting, etc. BTW, those offset scalers apply to the nasal hole drills as well to make the bridge size more predictable and clip fit more acurate. Also by using a scaler value both nasal and temporal scaler offsets are identical compared to using a fixed offset value in which case the values change based on a size, drill coordinate, etc. If you ever have a few I can show you my method, you may find it trivial but elegant. (translation - I know youd have fun seeing it rather than the glazed over look i get from some)
    http://www.opticians.cc

    Creator of the industries 1st HTML5 Browser based tracer software.
    Creator of the industries 1st Mac tracer software.
    Creator of the industries 1st Linux tracer software.

  21. #21
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Seaford, NY USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    5,718
    I am Ready to be taught by the master when you have a chance, Make.

    Barry

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Looking into chemistrie clips care to share your pros and cons
    By Paul Smith LDO in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 11-13-2015, 10:34 AM
  2. Chemistrie clips
    By cateye in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-26-2012, 05:32 PM
  3. Base curve - true base curve - refractive index
    By dadeppo in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-24-2007, 01:24 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OptiBoard is proudly sponsored by:
Younger Optics, Vision Equipment and Optitech USA