Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 126 to 150 of 166

Thread: Has sight testing been harmful to optometrists in BC?

  1. #126
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    north of 49
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,002
    Quote Originally Posted by throughalensdarkly View Post
    Well DrK you are in the Canadian forum... also I'd take Canada's healthcare system over the USA's any day of the week, even though my eye exams are no longer covered. By the way, this is the second time I've seen you assume a gender for someone you're talking to on the board, and the second time I've seen you guess wrong. I'm a gent, and I don't understand your problem with analogies. Maybe because you don't seem to understand them? You talk about referring someone to a chiropractor. As far as I remember subluxation theory has been discredited and chiropractors pose as real medical professionals - any good they do can probably be chalked up to placebo effect. You're comparing that to a sight test that is clearly labelled as a non-medical exam, the recipient has to sign a paper saying they understand this, and using theory that hasn't been discredited (I think guys like Mike.Elmes stand a pretty good chance of producing a working pair of glasses using these sight tests because THEY WORK). Most importantly, the Chiro might cause harm or let something go undiagnosed while posing as a medical professional. The glasses aren't gonna hurt anyone, and the client understands that they aren't receiving medical care. Apples and oranges, your analogy doesn't work/is misleading/etc. I guess you don't have to understand logic or be able to read critically to become an OD in Ohio.

    I know good OD's, I don't question the value of the role. But if it's just refracting then OD's days are numbered. Evolve or die! Technology is going to get better, not worse, and people DO NOT NEED A COMPREHENSIVE EYE EXAM TO GET GLASSES (they need it for other reasons). I've seen bad OD's refuse to give PD's for fear of onliners and prescribe 1.67 for patients with less than -3 myopia OU. You think the fact that they sell those pricey lenses to the patient didn't influence the decision to "prescribe" them? Don't you think the fact that it comes from a doctor makes the patient think they "need" 1.67 when they definitely do not? A system where a medical doctor also sells what they prescribe is open to abuse, and I've seen it abused. The exam costs $100+ in most offices I've seen, and I've seen sight testing offered free. If the recipient of a sight test has to sign a paper saying they understand this isn't a medical exam, due diligence has been done. They know they aren't seeing a doctor, and they know that they aren't adding hundreds of dollars to the cost of getting their family the glasses they need (they don't need an eye exam every single year, and can't afford it!). I don't think you have legitimate medical concerns about this, I think your concerns are financial. In which case welcome to the world of business (a place where doctors shouldn't be in the first place, not your fault just a stupid system). If over the counter readers are OK, even though they are mostly for people in an age range where it's even more important to get an eye exam, then other spectacles should be too. Get over it - it's happening.

    .....because it's current year, right?
    Eyes wide open

  2. #127
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Elmer J Fudd's yacht
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    I just hope you guys are as good of opticians as you are as trolls.

    But I sure doubt it.
    When does your Dr. Phil guest appearance air?

  3. #128
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Elmer J Fudd's yacht
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    709
    +1 uncut.

  4. #129
    Rising Star
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Alberta
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    97
    Delete. Not the best thread for this.

  5. #130
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Maryland
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,103
    Gender assumption? Really? Good lord

  6. #131
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    in Naples FL for the Winter months
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    23,240
    I see the insults are flying ..........................................

  7. #132
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    canada
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    706
    So here are some of the "SIGHT TESTS" I do, without getting into all the ocular health stuff (not even intraocular pressure and without an ophthalmoscope) - binocular vision testing, pupil testing, checking for opacities, suppression, diplopia, field testing, phorias, tropias, cycloplegic refraction (especially for younger population), deciding if that new hypermetropic shift is due to serious pathology, corneal health (dystrophies/degenerations/keratitis) all of which can AFFECT REFRACTION AND ACUITY...not an exhaustive list but if you think "SIGHT TESTING" is just taking a refractometer printout and reading a snellen chart, you are very highly mistaken about what "SIGHT" is and what "TESTING" it is. You can "see 20/20" on a snellen chart and have the completely WRONG prescription and have VERY DISEASED eyes, despite the "20/20". PURE TOTAL IGNORANCE.

  8. #133
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    canada
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    706
    I don't think you have legitimate medical concerns about this, I think your concerns are financial.

    Actually it seems to me that YOUR concerns are financial, and that a fake "sight test" which does in fact endanger people's health, is to facilitate a sale. Please pot, don't call the kettle black. You don't give glasses away, I presume. And yes, eyeglass prescriptions do in fact involve people's health for reasons too many to explain to you in this setting. I have plenty of physicians as clients, among them top surgeons in the city, and they know that a glasses prescription and ocular exam involves PROFESSIONAL judgment, and know where to go to get their own eye health checked. Point is, there are VERY frequently health issues which come into play when there is a patient with a changed or new prescription sitting in your exam chair. My physician patients, who have no stake in the optical industry, but who are MEDICAL HEALTH experts, would completely disagree with your nonsense statements.

  9. #134
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    canada
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    706
    So a person comes for a prescription change that is a significant myopic shift due to cataract, or hyperglycemia, and with a prescription change does get acuity to "20/20" , so the "sight tester" goes and makes new glasses. If you think this is acceptable and normal, that the person is told that now their vision is 2020 and they should be all smiles and go about their business with no clue that something else may be going on , well, you are completely nuts, and do not give a hoot about ANYTHING but your own bottom line. It is not the ODs who are all about the money. It is the glasses peddlers and their fake and ignorant sight test. ODs I know, and myself included, very often defer glasses changes in order to get the CAUSE of the rx change sorted out BEFORE selling or prescribing new glasses. And, we have the professional responsibility and liability to act in this fashion, we cannot "cover our arses" and say oh we only did a sight test and didnt check to see why the vision changed, or hide behind some signed consent nonsense.

  10. #135
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    in Naples FL for the Winter months
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    23,240

    Redhot Jumper It is not the ODs who are all about the money.......................................

    Quote Originally Posted by optimensch

    It is not the ODs who are all about the money.
    It is the glasses peddlers and their fake and ignorant sight test. ODs I know, and myself included, very often defer glasses changes in order to get the CAUSE of the rx change sorted out BEFORE selling or prescribing new glasses. And, we have the professional responsibility and liability to act in this fashion, we cannot "cover our arses" and say oh we only did a sight test and didn't check to see why the vision changed, or hide behind some signed consent nonsense.

    I could get along with above statements, if the doctor optometrist would not act like a medical doctor who has his own drugstore out front and sells top brand medications at the highest possible price.

    So far I have not met any OD operating his own office that is not making more money by selling the glasses at the standard pricing multiplier, than checking the eyes.

  11. #136
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    canada
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    706
    Chris
    With peace and love, you seem like an affable guy, but what the heck are you talking about?
    Should an ophthalmologist who diagnoses a cataract not also do the surgery due to a perceived conflict of interest since he gets paid a lot for the surgery? Should an orthodontist who decides a kid needs braces not install them because it is lucrative, and should advise them to go online and get some cheap china braces?
    Unlike those 2 scenarios, people have more options than ever and more price transparency than ever on where to buy glasses, and how much to pay for them.
    You can buy $10 glasses on zenni or go to a big box or anywhere the heck you want. ODs have no monopoly on glasses - somehting you point out incessantly by the way.
    WHat huge multiplier are you talking about???
    As a dispensing OD I actually see PLENTY of "my scripts" walk out the door to buy elsewhere and/or shop around, despite a well-stocked well-priced dispensary of 2000+ frames. By the same token I see PLENTY of outside scripts walk in, folks who had an eye exam at a big box or a competing optician or OD practise who purchase from me. People are mobile, and there are gazillions of options, more than ever.
    No, I do not need to ONLY do exams and refrain from eyewear sales, there is ZERO conflict of interest, this is the way the industry evolved and it works pretty well. Consumers have NEVER EVER had it so good with so many options. In fact what you are saying above is total, pure, unadulterated nonsense. Peace.

  12. #137
    OptiBoard Professional Michael I. Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Eldersburg
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    112
    In an ideal world, the ophthalmologist would not be diagnosing the cataract. The OMD should be the surgeon the OD the primary care eye doctor, and then the optician would have more work then they could handle filling all the prescriptions. Everyone working to the top of their profession.

  13. #138
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    canada
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    706
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael I. Davis View Post
    In an ideal world, the ophthalmologist would not be diagnosing the cataract. The OMD should be the surgeon the OD the primary care eye doctor, and then the optician would have more work then they could handle filling all the prescriptions. Everyone working to the top of their profession.
    And what about contact lenses in the ideal world?

  14. #139
    OptiBoard Professional Michael I. Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Eldersburg
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    112
    In an ideal world, ODs would fit the contacts write an Rx that would be filled at an optician or a pharmacy. See that patient for follow up as necessary.

    Of course reimbursement rates would have to change to make up for loss of income from product.
    Last edited by Michael I. Davis; 03-25-2018 at 07:17 AM.

  15. #140
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,385
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    I could get along with above statements, if the doctor optometrist would not act like a medical doctor who has his own drugstore out front and sells top brand medications at the highest possible price.

    So far I have not met any OD operating his own office that is not making more money by selling the glasses at the standard pricing multiplier, than checking the eyes.
    That's an idiotic analogy, Chris.

    When your gizzard had something caught in it, you went to a surgeon with your symptom and he got paid to extract it.

    When your halitosis flared yet again, you went to your dentist who removed your rotten molar.

    When your toenail fungus kept you from wearing shoes and only Birkenstocks, you went to a podiatrist with your symptom and he got paid to laser it.

    When you couldn't see your breakfast gruel, you went to an optometrist with your symptom and he got paid to fix it.


    Why am I penalized because my treatments include lenses? Shouldn't gizzard-removers, podiatrists, and dentists be disallowed to provide treatment?

    POPPYCOCK, SIR!
    Last edited by drk; 03-26-2018 at 07:38 AM.

  16. #141
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,385
    Dr. Davis, you should re-examine your philosophy regarding CLs.

    To wit, Dr: How many "unnecessary contact lenses" have you fit in your lifetime?

    How many times has a person come in for a routine exam and you've told them "Hey, you have mild, emerging myopia. You must now have contacts."

    That's your surgery analogy; someone getting unnecessary cataract surgery. Who gets "unnecessary contacts"?
    Last edited by drk; 03-26-2018 at 07:55 AM.

  17. #142
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,385
    Hey, Joe, I have a rattle in the trunk.

    Eh, it's a loose gas tank strap.

    Fix it, please.

    Can't do. Wouldn't be ethical.

  18. #143
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,385
    My bank account is low.

    Well, you have a poor rate of return on your investments.

    What's a better choice?

    Hush! You'd better talk to someone else before I lose my CFP license!

  19. #144
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,385
    My tummy is rumbling.

    Are you hungry, toots?

    That must be it. How about some bacon?

    I can't serve you any because I diagnosed you as "hungry". Try Denny's.
    Last edited by drk; 03-26-2018 at 07:55 AM.

  20. #145
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,385
    I'm shooting in the high 90s.

    Well, your swing is laughable.

    Can you give me a few lessons?

    Nope. The PGA disallows me--for ethical purposes, of course--to analyze your swing and then give you lessons to fix it. You have to get them on-line or something. $100, please. That will be cash. TA TA!
    Last edited by drk; 03-26-2018 at 07:56 AM.

  21. #146
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,385
    You see, what you numbnuts don't get is this:

    Which is better, ONE or TWO?

    One:
    "Doc, I can't see right."
    "OK, you probably need glasses. Try these -1.00's. Fill it somewhere else. That'll be $75 and pay Sally up front."
    "I still can't see."
    "Eh, they probably screwed it up. Try these -1.12's. Take it back for a refund. That will be $50 and pay Sally up front."
    "Nope"
    "Well, you probably have cataracts, then. See if you can get another refund from Glasses Shack. Go to Sidney, MD, who will diagnose your cataracts and then you can find an unaffiliated surgeon. That will be $50 and pay Sally up front."

    "OH THANK YOU, MR. ETHICAL DOCTOR!"


    Or, two:
    "Here is your problem, I think. It's probably cataracts. Since you are not interested in surgery just yet, let's go into the optical and Sally will make you a new pair of glasses with more distance vision. We're going to be following up with you, if this approach doesn't make you see better. We'll be with you all the way."

    "YOU MONEY-GRUBBING BASTAGE!"

  22. #147
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    637
    Whoa! Let the dander fly

  23. #148
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Occupation
    Optical Retail
    Posts
    2,369
    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    "YOU MONEY-GRUBBING BASTAGE!"
    Mad props for the Johnny Dangerously reference.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  24. #149
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down on the Farm
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    5,809
    Dr K, curious what you think of Stark Law, and why OD/OMD’s shouldn’t be held to the same standard.

  25. #150
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,385
    https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...aw-021717.html

    I don't say that physicians haven't been bad boys and girls. I know it happens.

    Does it require a law? I doubt it, but whatever.

    How about this FCLCA crap? It's a scam beyond scams.

    The government is no more/less moral than the citizens they deign to regulate.

    However, there HAS TO BE some degree of reasonableness. Why treat ODs (of all people...ODs who are on the absolute lowest end of the health care totem pole, below podiatrists and dentists and maybe just above accupunturists and chiropractors) like we're a bunch of freaking criminals?

    One reason, and one reason, only: Opticians (yes, many axe-grinders on this site) and way more prevalently: retailers and online retailers want a cut of the vision-correcting device market. That's all.

    So, take a big crap on Optometry. Go ahead. Evil docs making barely six figures. Evil docs getting shafted day in and day out by Eyemed/Luxessilor and VSPMarchon.

    Yeah, we're the problem.

    I hate myself.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Historical Sight Testing
    By rbaker in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-16-2016, 02:04 PM
  2. Opticians sight-testing in Ontario
    By ManitobaOD in forum Canadian Discussion Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 09-09-2010, 08:12 AM
  3. on sight testing?????
    By Neena in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-14-2005, 10:03 AM
  4. Sight testing exam
    By Dannyboy in forum Professional and Educational Organizations Discussion Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-28-2001, 07:01 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •