Disposable CL may last much longer than the CL makers want you to know

[mowmow]

Dyip,

Kudos to you. Your're much smarter than the average consumer to have figured out our little scam. Please don't let this get out to too many people, or the industry might very well implode.
But the implications go much much deeper.

Not only are all theses lenses virtually the same but they're actually all made by little Elfs in a top secret facility located on a super top secret island. The Elfs depend greatly on the contact lens industry for their survival, with Christmas being only a seasonal gig. Think of the catastrophic implications to the entire Elf population if more people knew what you've discovered and didn't buy replacement lenses. Poor little innocent Elfs....what did they ever do to you!

Food for thought:
What a fool does in the end, the wise do in the beginning.:D

[dyip]

Steve,
Let me repeat again. I respect your decision. I will have no problem to keep quiet in this forum. But I will respond to any remark that is a distortion of my original viewpoint and unreasonable provocative personal attack. I do have a busy real life. Cyber-junky is not my style.

Jo,
I have taken everyone’s remark very seriously before I wrote the previous post. I am sorry to know that my sincerity had fallen on deaf ears. Thank you for your post about the ‘troll’. I just added one more word to my limited cyber-vocabulary. The Contact Lens Spectrum Forum was the first cyber-forum I had ever participated in my whole life, and this is the second one. It all started with a very innocent curiosity, and one thing just led to the other. Someone who cares enough to profile me can read all the posts I had written in these two forums, and will come to the conclusion that I am not a ‘troll’. My agenda is about the whole CL industry based on my personal experience and the researches that I have done from different public CL related web sites, and again nothing personal to start with. Please do not insult the intelligence of the readers in this forum. A lot of them are professionals like you. They are smart enough to know what a ‘troll’ is.

I suggest you to totally ignore my posts for one month, or longer if necessary. When you are ready, assume that you are not working for the optical industry and are just a regular CL consumer like me. You then start to read my posts and the recommended links again CAREFULLY(Any reader who feels that what I wrote in this thread is disgusting can do the same thing). Maybe all my posts will start to make some sense to you.

Be a distant observer, then you can see what an elephant really looks like instead of keep sticking to your own viewpoint that the creature is not different from a light pole or a thick hose. Your peers will give you a polite applause for trashing me, but it is the laughters from a distance that you may never hear.

Chip,
There is no need to get personal. You are just setting a bad example for those future posters in this forum.


I hope that my opinions about the whole CL industry will not be lost by one or two unintended missteps.


mowmow,
What is Elfs?

Please don't let this get out to too many people, or the industry might very well implode.

But this is a public forum. I have no control of who reads what?
BTW, volume is King. If more people can buy cheaper lenses, won't that offset the difference just like PC and DVD?

What a fool does in the end, the wise do in the beginning.

This is too profound for me to understand. Please try a simplier one. I don't what to mis-interpret your meaning.

[mowmow]

Hey

Why don't you sponser some TV (that's television) ads kinda like
thoses tobacco ads only about CLs? You could be the poster child
to enlighten society.

[paw]

dyip said, "The Contact Lens Spectrum Forum was the first cyber-forum I had ever participated in my whole life, and this is the second one. It all started with a very innocent curiosity, and one thing just led to the other. Someone who cares enough to profile me can read all the posts I had written in these two forums, and will come to the conclusion that I am not a ‘troll’."

dyip has also posted on the Optometric Management website's General Discussion Forum, in the thread "Is It A Good Time To Enter Optometry."

[dyip]

PAW,
Big deal. I should have said the VisionCare Forums(http://www.visioncareforums.com/forums.asp). Both Contact Lens Spectrum General Discussion Forum and Optometric Management General Discussion Forum are both under VisionCare Forum. It is just like two communities under a big society. The Contact Lens Spectrum General Discussion Forum under the VisionCare Forums is just like this General Discussion Forum under the Optiboard Discussion Forums. If you go to Optometric Forum, it is very unlikely that you will miss the General Discussion Forum. If you looked at my previous posts carefully, I did quoted the Optometric Management General Discussion Forum several times. I am not trying to hide anything.

[dyip]

mowmow,

Are you telling me I have a sense of humor too This is a big compliment, especially from an OD in this forum. You really make my day today.

Being a mature adult, I will consider your other advice seriously. But something must be done in the CL industry, sooner or later. I can't be the only consumer who knows about this.

You can be a good diplomat:)

[chip anderson]

Don't know why you concider yourself the guardian of the CL industry. But something has been done. It has already been diluted from a highly respected well paying profession in which most doctors and O.D.'s feared to tread to commanding about as much respect as salesmen selling disposable food wrapping. The profit has all but disappeared from the business and you want to "save the consumer."

May you rot in **** with Ralph Nader and his damn seat belts.

Chip

[hcjilson]

Ralph Nader is known for seat belts.....but his most notable accomplishment....was taking votes away from the democratic candidate in the last presidential election!

:D :D
hj

[varmint]

Even Ralph Nader has at least one good point then hj.

[hcjilson]

I agree with you today.....but I didn't at the time! :D

[mowmow]

Dyip,

Enough already. Go get LASIK, be done with contacts and then go pick on chiropractors!

[Steve Machol]

As Jo said, please take a look at these sites before responding:

• Internet Trolls
• Beware the Troll

[mullo]

Troll's....................I think everybody should own one.................

[Stopper]

B&L got in trouble for packaging the same lens with three different names. Optima FW-yearly, Medalist- Quarterly and Seequence2 -2-wk. The one day acuvue I don't believe was the same as regular acuvue. It had different parameters. but same material. All acuvues have the same material. J&J settled to make it go away.

Encore VS Sunsoft. I think they have a different manufacturing process. One might be molded while the other is lathe cut. I'll have to check on that.

You may be great at cleaning your lenses but a 6-12 month old lens will not be as clean as a new one. Is your eye going to fall out of your head, probably not but why not maximize the health of your eyes and minimize the risks.

$260/ yr is less than a dollar a day. Most people spend more on coffee and soda in a day.

[Stopper]

Dyip as far as knowing about the stuggles between the three Os, I did know before deciding on a career. All Professions have obstacles. I would do it again in a heart beat. I have a very rewarding career. (I'm not talking about the money) Although I don't mind making a good living.

50% savings on contacts at a discount store is not reality. the mark up on lenses is not very good. Not many people making a lot of money selling lenses. Services and products are worth what people are willing to pay for them. If some one is willing to pay for the services and products at the fee you charge, then I say God bless America.

[dyip]

Internet Trolls
Beware the Troll

Will a rumor spreaded a hundred times become truth? Only time will tell…



A good quote from Chris Ryser

Everything that irritates us about others ....................................




can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.

With so many nasty responses to this thread, guess who are the people that got irritated...



mowmow,

You wrote

Not only are all theses lenses virtually the same but they're actually all made by little Elfs in a top secret facility located on a super top secret island. The Elfs depend greatly on the contact lens industry for their survival, with Christmas being only a seasonal gig. Think of the catastrophic implications to the entire Elf population if more people knew what you've discovered and didn't buy replacement lenses. Poor little innocent Elfs....what did they ever do to you!

Weren’t these Elfs the same folks who got into troubles in those CL class action lawsuits? I still remember the days when I used to pay more than $200 for a single toric lens which never gave any comfort to my eye. I am sure that these Elfs made a lot of money from the innocent consumers during those good old days. Are you sure they are really ‘poor, little and innocent’?


I’ve thought about Lasik but never take it seriously. I am more worrying about the safety than the cost of the procedure. Since the human eyesight is a moving target which changes over time, I do not believe the correction (if successful) is permanent. Do you know how many ‘post-Lasik’ patients wear or wish that they could wear CL again? Recently, someone sent me an e-mail with the title

$40 Million Product Liability Lawsuit Exposes LASIK Industry

The popular eye surgery known as "LASIK" has been promoted as a way to eliminate the need for glasses and contact lenses. However, a lawsuit filed against microkeratome manufacturer Bausch & Lomb, threatens to derail the entire LASIK industry.
The Bausch & Lomb microkeratome is commonly used in LASIK to cut flaps in the eye prior to removing cornea tissue with the laser. One patient who was damaged by a malfunctioning microkeratome, has filed a lawsuit against Bausch & Lomb for $40 million. Attorney Al Parisi, who represents the plaintiff, now states that additional LASIK patients have come forward with complaints regarding damage from malfunctioning microkeratomes.
Industry analysts fear that negative publicity regarding defective microkeratomes will dissuade potential consumers from undergoing the procedure. Analysts point out that a consumer activist has posted a copy of the lawsuit in Adobe PDF format at: www.lasikcourt.com/bausch/guess_vs_bausch.pdf. Bausch & Lomb also received further negative publicity from a web site at www.lasikdisaster.com/bausch_and_lomb.htm.
Attorney Al Parisi uncovered a "bombshell" when he obtained an e-mail that was sent from a Bausch & Lomb whistle-blower to the web site operator at www.lasikcourt.com. In the e-mail, the whistle-blower alleged that Bausch & Lomb had engaged in shoddy manufacturing processes. The link of the e-mail is provided here:

www.lasikcourt.com/bausch/whistleblower01.html

For those who consider Lasik seriously, make sure you read the story in this link http://www.lasikcourt.com/tlc/brenthanson/ . I just have to stick to CL at this moment. I do not want to be the next ‘victim’ to file another multi-million lawsuit against the Lasik industry.




chip,

you wrote

Don't know why you concider yourself the guardian of the CL industry. But something has been done. It has already been diluted from a highly respected well paying profession in which most doctors and O.D.'s feared to tread to commanding about as much respect as salesmen selling disposable food wrapping. The profit has all but disappeared from the business and you want to "save the consumer."

May you rot in **** with Ralph Nader and his damn seat belts.

Personal attacking messages in a professional forum is like graffiti in a city, they end up upsetting more people than the intended target.

Let me ask you a question. Do you want to pay for MY debt? Your ‘knee jerk response’ will say ‘no’. I also know that your non-‘knee jerk response’ will also say ‘no’. Now, why should the average consumers have to pay for other peoples’ (Elfs’) debt just because they are really in debt or they want to make more money? As I mentioned in many previous posts, these people have many $mart ways to make the consumers pay voluntarily. Their methods may be legal, but are they ethical?




Stopper,

Encore VS Sunsoft. I think they have a different manufacturing process. One might be molded while the other is lathe cut. I'll have to check on that.

Molding sounds like a process suited for mass production, and lathe cut sounds like a labor intensive process. Is it true that one mold is only good for one parameters setting(base curve, diameter, power, axis, cylinder) while the lathe cut process can theoretically adjust for any parameter setting? I do believe that the lens from molding is much cheaper to produce for high enough volume. If the parameters of both lenses (identical material) are the same, shouldn’t the CL wearer be able to tell the difference except for the price?

[mowmow]

Dyip,

Geeze I was starting to worry about you. Glad you're back!

[Johns]

Dyip

If you were to have LASIK, and the price of the procedure would continue go down (as contacts have) what recourse would you have ?

Who would you sue ? The guy that did the surgery? The guy with the lower price ? The guy with the latest procedure ?

[Jubilee]

Dyip, what do you do?

Have you only worked for non-proft entities?

Yes, the contact lens industry and the optical professionals that run it are out to make a profit. This is the very nature of a business and the profits of today help finance the work it took to get where we are now, and the education and additional work it will take to research, develop to come up with new products and techniques for tomorrow.

Most people who come out of college regardless of which degree they come out with has some school debt. If you want to talk about debt in general, it seems that the only thing I hear is how the American consumer is swimming in debt, and major industries are going bankrupt.

Do you have a problem with the whole health care industry? I don't know of any doctors, MD; DO; OD; DDS who don't have some debt from the intense training they have to go through. How about pharmacists? Why is it I can go buy a 30 day supply of claritan from my pharmacy for $20, when just a year ago I had to pay the same $20 and that was just a co-pay, and they billed my insurance for another $20? Was I getting scammed by the pharmacy so they could pay off the debts of their pharmacists? Or was it the company that made the product having to recoup their investment in the R&D negotiating the legal and federal systems and all they had to do to come up with the product, test it, patent it, do more trials, get FDA approval and then market it? This is big money and all pharmaceuticals and health devices have to go through something similar to this. The cost gets passed down to the pharmacies, and they in turn want to make a profit and the price gets raised a bit more. They majority of businesses can't afford to sell something below their costs to provide it. No business can stay in business long if they do everything that way. The only way you can pay your supplier, and pay for your own overhead, not to mention to make a bit of money to keep for yourself is if you charge a reasonable price.

Maybe you ought to invest in the equipment and materials it takes to manufacture a contact lens. Try to break down the exact percentages of what makes up the various contact lens solutions and try to make your own. See how much it costs you then. And when you got it right, then try to see how much it takes for you to come up with something different enough to patent, get approval and then market. If you make it, you can get your own piece of the pie. But I have a feeling you might discover what a bargain it truly is your getting.

Cassandra

[mowmow]

Touche' Cassandra,

I suspect Dyip is sitting there right now formulating his "Cassandra said this, Chip said that, Jo states..., Mowmow says this" response. Personally, I now find this guy entertaining.
I actually like to read his trash right before the Simsons' come on. Yes Dyip, you can take that as a compliment or whatever, only Matt Groening gets paid for his ramblings. Whenever you're having a bad day at work just smile knowing that in the scheme of things it could be alot worse....you could have to take care of patients like Dyip.

Come on Dyip don't let us down!!!!!!!!

[dyip]

Sorry for the slow response. I need to spend time to do my income tax return in order to get my refund check ASAP(1st time in many years:cheers: ). Actually doing so many posts in this forum has caused some delay already.:(

Johns,
As I mentioned before, cost is not an issue for me in considering LASIK. It is more about the safety and the longterm effectiveness. You are asking something that has a very remote chance of happening to me. Since I haven’t done much research in LASIK, my answer to your question will be highly hypothetical.

Who would you sue ? The guy that did the surgery? The guy with the lower price ? The guy with the latest procedure ?

I would first find a lawyer who had a lot of experiences in suing the LASIK industry and then sue the person with the deepest pocket(Who else?). Who has the deepest pocket? My guess would be the entity who made the equipment for the surgery because someone told me that most of the LASIK cost several years ago ($2000+ per eye) was in paying back the capital equipment. I am sure that by the time the LASIK cost drops down to a low enough level (and after doing a lot more extensive researches in LASIK myself) to lure me into the procedure, the equipment company should have made enough money from the public already(hopefully not all of them went bankruptcy by then). If the deepest pocket suit proved to be too aggressive, I would then go down to the list of the food chain one by one…..

BTW, are you trying to trick me into giving you a ‘sexist’ answer by asking me a ‘sexist’ question? What made you think that only ‘guy’ can run the LASIK business? Don’t you think that some readers will go ballistic after reading your ‘sexist’ question? You know, this is a ‘sexist’ sensitive forum, so beware of what you write!:o



mowmow,

I actually like to read his trash right before the Simsons' come on.

Have you checked the poll of this thread lately. You may just be one of the minority who thinks that my posts are trash. On the other hand, if you find them entertaining, how can they be trash? I knew that I am a funny person in real life(based on other people’s reactions to my jokes). But I didn’t know that I could be this funny until I started my first thread in the cyber world recently.

Yes Dyip, you can take that as a compliment or whatever, only Matt Groening gets paid for his ramblings.

What made you think that my ramblings won’t be rewarded someday?



Sometimes I found it difficult to decipher your ambiguous message like

....you could have to take care of patients like Dyip.

This reminds me something that I wrote in my thread “Commit the world’s most perfect crime using contact lens” in this forum. I am lost and confused.

Come on Dyip don't let us down!!!!!!!!

Are you encouraging me to start another new thread? I do have more to say about the CL industry. There are still some itchy spots that needed to be scratched regarding the CL issues. Do I get you excited already? So far, you are the only cheerleader among the numerous relentless ‘booers’(I know that I don’t have home court advantage since day one). I really need some support from the consumer side(Please say something, don’t just lurk around). I just don’t want to open my mouth because of the adverse reactions from this forum.



Cassandra,
I heard you. Thank you for your remark. Thoughtful remark deserves thoughtful response. Since I like to pay attention to detail once in a while, I am still in the process of fine tuning my income tax return to see if I can increase the refund amount. I will get back to you later. Stay tuned, and you won’t be disappointed.

[mowmow]

Dyip,

Yada Yada Yada Yada Yada!
That post stank. Sharpen your pencil
before the troll police shut you down.

[dyip]

For those who haven’t hated me enough, I hope this is not another can of worms, …… just more words.:drop:

Cassandra,

greed - An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.

Let us don’t talk about the word ‘greed’ for a moment and just leave it there for easy reference later.

Yes, the contact lens industry and the optical professionals that run it are out to make a profit. This is the very nature of a business and the profits of today help finance the work it took to get where we are now, and the education and additional work it will take to research, develop to come up with new products and techniques for tomorrow.

and

The only way you can pay your supplier, and pay for your own overhead, not to mention to make a bit of money to keep for yourself is if you charge a reasonable price.

I really do not see anything wrong with your argument. Yes, everyone in a business is doing it for a profit. Personally, I don’t mind to pay more for a unique and great product, like the Alcon Opti-free Express No Rub MPS. While I am still waiting for the next better and cheaper MPS, I have no choice but pay the discount store full price for it (I hate to make it sounds like I am giving Alcon a free commercial). The point is how much profit is enough profit for someone or an industry. 15% profit margin or 1,500% profit margin or more? When does it reach the point of ‘excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves’ or ‘greed’. This is a very subjective judgement call. Especially for the person who is constantly pursuing ‘only the sky is the limit’ profit margin by using all kind of deceptive tactics, he/she thinks that he/she deserves every dime and nickel from the consumers.

In the real world, not everyone charges the consumers ‘a reasonable price’ in every business like you said. Let me talk about some non CL industry business practices so that we can both see things from the same angle, and you can then find out the similarities between the CL and non-CL industries in their practices of making profits. For those who don’t believe what they see in the mirror, I hope that the following may help.

I was once tricked by a car dealer to replace a starter which cost me $400 while the same job could have been done by another nearby dealer for half price. The 1st dealer claimed that they needed to replace the whole starter(a refurbished part with almost a new part price tag) and kept my old starter(so that they could also resell it as refurbished part to the next victim). The 2nd dealer said that all they needed to do was to rework certain portion of my old starter, and the fixed starter would function like a new one. I am sure that both dealers would make a profit from the same deal. Imagine how much extra money the 1st dealer would have made if they could ‘scam’ a hundred customers like me in a year, or a thousand customers in 10 years. Would you agree that the 1st dealer was on the ‘greed’ side while the 2nd dealer would be on the ‘reasonable price’ side? If I didn’t call the 2nd dealer later for a price quote, I would think that the 1st dealer really charged me ‘a reasonable price’ too. This is just one of the numerous dirty tricks in the auto industry. I am sure you’ve heard more.


Your Question:

Do you have a problem with the whole health care industry? I don't know of any doctors, MD; DO; OD; DDS who don't have some debt from the intense training they have to go through.

My Answer:
If you ask your dentist why he/she charges $1000 for a crown that costs only $50 in material, I am sure that he/she will give you a good lecture to justify the charge. Actually if you swap all the opti-terms in your post by the equivalent dental terms, that will make a good argument for the dentist. However, do you think that the $1000 will be ‘a reasonable price’? I paid my last crown for $700, did my dentist charge ‘a reasonable price’? How about $500 or $400? Maybe the one who charges $1000 has a larger debt or he/she just wants to get rich fast. Your dentist will also love to check your teeth every 3 months. Do you think that he/she does it for your own health or his/her pocket’s health?

My dentist referred me to an oral surgeon to have my wisdom teeth extracted not long ago. During the pre-operation visit, I told the surgeon that I did not mind the hammer pounding, chisel plying, drill penetrating and pliers pulling bloody scenes as long as he did a good job in numbing my month (bear in mind that the real pain didn’t really start until all the anesthesia dissipated). However, the surgeon insisted that he still needed to give me a $250 out of my own pocket general anesthesia. His reason was that his job would be easier during my sleep. To me, it was not just the $250. My loved one had to take half day off from work to drive me home after the procedure, and I had to stay home for the rest of the day. It was a price much higher than I wanted to pay. I declined the surgeon’s offer and had my dentist refer me to a 2nd oral surgeon. The 2nd surgeon had absolutely no problem to extract my teeth when I was fully awoken. He left the choice to the patient. I saved $250 and drove to work after the procedure. How much more do you think the 1st surgeon will make if he indiscriminately charges $250 to the next 200 patients that he will see in a year, or the next 2,000 patients he will see in 10 years? Sounds like easy money to me. He can sure pay off his student loan and/or business debt much faster than the 2nd surgeon or he can easily afford a larger mansion than the 2nd surgeon.


Why are the tobacco industry and companies like Enron, Tenet Healthcare Corp in so much trouble if they just try to charge the public ‘a reasonable price’ to make a profit?

If you are in the CL business, you should be very familiar with different class action lawsuits against the CL industry and the multi-million settlements by the CL industry in the last 10 years. (http://www.state.ia.us/government/ag..._lens_J_J.htm, http://www.cslib.org/attygenl/press/.../contact1.htm, http://www.ago.state.mo.us/022101.htm )

What do you think all the above companies and industries have in common to get themselves into such deep trouble?

I hope you and I both agree by now that even though everyone in a business is doing it for a profit, but not everyone charges everyone else ‘a reasonable price’ because of the ‘greed’ factor. There are always some bad apples that spoil the basket in every business.

Now let me fast forward to the CL industry in the present time. Has the whole industry changed much after emerging from all the lawsuits? They are more in debt for sure because of the settlements. On the other hand, they also get $marter in making profits.

In the CL industry, I am just seeing bad apples left and right, present and past.

Again I have to refer you to the thread “Contact Lens?” in this forum that I mentioned earlier in this thread. The two great minds(Chip and Pete) really captured a lot of the innovative ‘$mart ideas’ created by the CL industry. As an outsider, I really can’t describe the whole situation better than they did. I am wondering why such a good thread received so little attention. That thread definitely earns a spot in my own personal collection. The following are some excerpts…

Chip wrote,

There is also a growing cultural change that says : "Patient's won't follow care protocals, practioners are too busy (read: lazy~greedy) to instruct patient in proper care, and no one wants to fool with follow-ups. Hense the disposable lens, that the practioner can spend little effort to fit and follow, charge an extra $ 80.00 for a $35.00 eye exam. The dispoable lens manufacturer can make some money repeatedly…..

I’ve heard that OMD charges $150 for the same exam, maybe he/she has a larger student loan than that of the OD. Also, the ODs would also love to check the CL wearer’s eyes every 6 months. Who is the one that really benefits, the OD or the patient?

Pete Hanlin wrote,

…..2.) Since lenses are so cheap to produce (and the retail price of the lens has dropped accordingly), the manufacturer needs to sell more lenses in order to support their profit margins. Therefore, we have contact lens manufacturers promoting monthly, then bi-weekly, then daily replacement of lenses…..

Now you know how appropriate is the title of this thread “Disposable CL may last much longer than the CL makers want you to know”. Folks, I did not know about the “Contact Lens?” thread before I started this thread in the VisionCare Forum. It was just my observation based on my curious research. What kind of profit margins that the manufacturer are pursuing? Probably a small part of the profits may help to recover some of the debts due to all those settlements from the class action lawsuits. The rest will just sink into their deep and bulgy pockets.

I haven’t heard a good explanation of why the rewetting drops are at least 26 to 50 times more expensive than the similar MPS solution just because the eyedrop bottle is smaller and its tip has a smaller hole than that of MPS(More on this topic from my other thread in this forum titled “Rewetting drops may be a waste of your money!”). Haven’t the eye care companies made enough profits out of the MPS solution already? What kind of profit margins are they getting from the rewetting drops?


When the medical students plunge their bodies into the ocean of debts, this is just the first step of their long term investment. They want to borrow money now and hopefully they will make more in the future than what they borrow now and hence make a better living. To me, they are not different from those people who invest in stock market. Some take a calculated risk and invest conservatively, while other risk at all costs and put their life savings into the stock market when the market was at its peak several years ago. As you know, any investment is like ‘driving by looking only at the rear mirror’, what is happening today may not be repeated in the future. Perhaps when the students decided to study Optometry many years ago(pre class action era), CL might still make up for 60% of the income. However, time changed and the CL industry went through dramatic changes in the past 10 years(ODs have to give out prescriptions to patients, CL can be purchased everywhere. The money maker CL become money loser..). They may have to accept the fact they still have a hefty loan to deal with while the CL is no longer money making machine. I can see why these ODs want to make up for the big dent in their pockets by advocating 6 month eye exam., promoting a daily wear CL as frequent replacement lens, squeezing in more patients in a given time slot, or charge 20% to 50% more for the CL than the market average. The O’s may say that they are just ‘fitting for food’. But what would the consumers think? If I can spend $20 a year on CL( with the correct CL care), why do I want to pay $260? I am sure there are people who do not want to spend the time to disinfect and pay the higher price for more frequent replacements. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong to have my eye exam every two years instead of every year(every 6 months will be just like changing the oil for your car every 1000 miles, not a bad idea, but not necessary neither).

I know someone who had a six figures investment account at the peak of the stock market, and after several margin calls, the account shrank down to four figures. If he was willing to take the risk to invest, he should also have the stomach to accept the consequence, and not whine about it afterward. Too bad he does not have a good excuse to have someone pay back for his loss like others in the health care world.

If every CL wearer is as disciplined as I am in caring the CL, it may cast a catastrophic blow to the CL industry based on the current business model. In reality, I think some may follow my path and some won’t, and there are CL abusers who will do thing their own ways. As I mentioned in the MORE ABOUT COMPLIANCE section in the first post, the only way to keep the CL industry alive is to get more consumers wearing the wonderful devices. Let them know the option of treating the CL as daily wear or frequent replacement and charge them a reasonable eye exam price. Everyone will be happy.

Just take a look at the article titled “Contact Lenses: Where Now and Where to?” in the Contact Lens Spectrum (http://www.clspectrum.com/archive_re...?article=12277) . The world population that needs visual correction will grow from 3.5 to 5.3 billion from year 2000 to year 2020. Right now around 100million people worldwide wear CL. When over 1,000million people wear CL, I don’t see why the annual cost for CL per user can’t not drop down to $20 level, and the CL industry still can’t be profitable. I really think that the current CL business model is outdated, from the O’s to the CL and solution manufacturers. Not many people are willing to spend over $700 a year for wearing CL when they can do it safely for a fraction of the price. When the O’s keep increasing the eye exams cost, the CL makers try to ‘make money repeatedly’ from the ‘disposable lens’, and the eye care solution manufacturers overcharge the consumers, they are just pushing the potential CL wearers away from the doorstep. You need to make friend (not enemy) with your customers. Think about the vastly untapped ‘money making’ population, lower your profit margin, and ‘VOLUME’ will start to become ‘GOD’. Isn’t it true that you make the same money whether your profit margin is 100% with only 10 customers or 10% with 100 customers? At least, a 10% profit margin sounds more like ‘a reasonable price’ than a 100% profit margin. Everyone feels a little bit poorer in today’s economy, but there is always hope. First, you start with good people skills, then the rest will come next.

But I have a feeling you might discover what a bargain it truly is your getting.

If you meant that I am paying $20 a year for my CL, then it is really a good bargain as of today, no doubt about that. At least I am decent enough to spend $50 for 6 pairs of CL, and you can interpret that as my gesture to support the CL industry. Think about the people who wore the same pair of free trial lenses that the OD fitted them a year ago (an OD story I overheard in the VisionCare Forum). Obviously, these people were doing a good job in disinfection. Maybe they were just trying to make a statement to the entire CL industry.:bbg:

Again, thank you for your inspiration.

Curiosity killed the cat, guess who will be next?

[paw]

dyip,
You really need to make your point with fewer words. I speed read over all your posts.

"The point is how much profit is enough profit for someone or an industry. 15% profit margin or 1,500% profit margin or more?"

Now we get to the meat of the matter! Who are you, or anyone else, to say who should make what profit? That's what a free market is for. Capitalism in action.

God bless America.

[mowmow]

Paw,

Notice that Dyip never responded to Cassandra's opening question asking what he does. Apparently he's either ashamed or it's some big secret. Lets venture a guess.

I think Dyip is most likely some nickle and dime attorney with way
to much time on his hands and some type of obscure psychotic obsession with the three O's. Ironically, the type that drives up in a BMW complains about the price of a tint and then goes back to his office where he bills clients $10.00 a page for copies and $300 per hour for bogus phone calls.

Lets start a poll of our own and see who can best figure him out. I'm sure he'll let us know when we're getting warm.

By the way Dyip I'm surprised a smart guy like you didn't try pulling out your own wisdom teeth. A mirror, vise grips, some gauze.......Must have killed you to let go of 250 clams