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Thread: New progressive lens "welcomed"...........................

  1. #26
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Hanlin View Post
    Regarding Crizal Forte, that product is known as Crizal Avance UV in the US.
    That's what I thought!
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  2. #27
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    I consider 9 out of 10 satisfaction a horrible failure. 10% dissatisfied!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
    I consider 9 out of 10 satisfaction a horrible failure. 10% dissatisfied!
    You know that is a great point. Unless some of these people went into the study knowing they hated progressives, or had a bad neck or any other of the issues that cause non adapts (which are much fewer than they were 15 years ago) 10% for a super duper top of the line lens is pretty darn high.

  4. #29
    sub specie aeternitas Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Don't confuse "adaptation" with "satisfaction" (the industry often does just this)...

    For sure, assuming an excellent fit, most progressive designs should be capable of making 98-99% of people happy enough to wear the lens without bringing it back- after all, progressive lenses work (plus, most people don't get that there are different types of no-line lenses, so they assume whatever performance they are getting is "as good as it gets-" so they don't take them back). However, if you bring progressive lens wearers together and research their wearing experience, you find only about 50% of consumers are really satisfied with the intermediate and near visual performance provided by their progressive lenses. I've sat behind the one-way glass in numerous cities for numerous research projects, and it is amazing how consistent the feedback from progressive wearing consumers is. At the end of each session, I go in to ascertain what design each consumer is wearing (consumers are usually shocked to discover there are markings that indicate what "brand" their progressive is- most do not realize there is more than one "type" of no-line lens). Even those wearing what I would consider "premium" progressives are often not happy with their near and intermediate performance. Ask 100 progressive wearers if they are happy with how their lenses work when they're trying to read in bed, and you are not going to find 90+ of them saying they are completely happy...
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Director Technical Marketing
    Essilor of America

  5. #30
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Pete, one of the big complaints of MF contact lens styles, is (as you undoubtedly know well) the vision is 'soft' due to looking through multiple optics all at once. I understand that on a PAL, this could be mitigated to a small degree, as this would only be done in the corridor, and eliminating the distance portion of the equation should simplify things in a noticeable way.

    With that said, we also know that Varilux designs of the past couple decades have been rather soft. I wonder if the softness of the overall design, coupled with the potential added softness due to compounding multiple near corrections in the corridor might lead to overall loss of clarity at mid/near.

    Surely the engineers are aware of this and have worked on some complex solutions. Are you able to expand on that particular at all here? Thanks!

  6. #31
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Hanlin View Post
    However, if you bring progressive lens wearers together and research their wearing experience, you find only about 50% of consumers are really satisfied with the intermediate and near visual performance provided by their progressive lenses. I've sat behind the one-way glass in numerous cities for numerous research projects, and it is amazing how consistent the feedback from progressive wearing consumers is.
    This is why I think that the most underrated element of our business is managing patients' expectations. Yes, a PAL will give you a graduated reading prescription that is usable at all distances. No, it is not as well-designed for computer use as a dedicated pair of near-variable-focus or intermediate lenses, and you shouldn't expect it to be.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  7. #32
    sub specie aeternitas Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Pete, one of the big complaints of MF contact lens styles, is (as you undoubtedly know well) the vision is 'soft' due to looking through multiple optics all at once. I understand that on a PAL, this could be mitigated to a small degree, as this would only be done in the corridor, and eliminating the distance portion of the equation should simplify things in a noticeable way.

    With that said, we also know that Varilux designs of the past couple decades have been rather soft. I wonder if the softness of the overall design, coupled with the potential added softness due to compounding multiple near corrections in the corridor might lead to overall loss of clarity at mid/near.

    Surely the engineers are aware of this and have worked on some complex solutions. Are you able to expand on that particular at all here? Thanks!
    A few notes: In a simultaneous contact lens, the lens is trying to provide far and near power (which requires a range of powers well over 1.00D and sometimes over 2.00D). As you noted, the simultaneous effect found in Varilux X Series lenses only occurs in the near and intermediate, and the power variation will therefore be much less pronounced (as in a few hundredths to as much as perhaps 0.50D).

    In the development of Xtend Technology, the designers actually focused on acuity targets rather than power (I believe in the white paper they have what looks like a contour plot- it's actually a plot of acuity). For a given point in the lens let's say they established an acuity target of 0.01 log MAR or higher for a viewing distance with a range of 45-54cm. They then worked to create optics that delivered that performance at the given point. In the process of hitting those acuity targets, it became necessary to develop a new calculation process (to allow them to more tightly control the optics of each area of the lens). I know the belief is "going digital" immediately creates infinite control of the surface, but in fact a designer is limited by the power of his/her calculator (because the calculation determines how finely a surface can be defined.

    Finally, although it gets discounted as a "marketing term," W.A.V.E. Technology 2 (Wavefront Advanced Vision Enhancement) is a real thing that does allow Varilux designers to create surfaces with lower levels of higher order aberrations (we can prove it with actual wearers and everything :^). When you add the "design based on acuity" approach to the ability to design away aberrations that reduce sharpness, the result is a lens that provides an "extended range of sharp vision within arm's reach" (which is the product claim).

    The ultimate proof is in the pudding (or, in this case, the vision), and personally speaking I do notice sharp, extended vision in the four pairs of Varilux X Design lenses I currently own (only downer about owning a couple dozen pair of glasses is updating them when the Rx changes- or when a new design you like comes out :^).
    Hope this helps address any concerns/questions...
    Pete
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Director Technical Marketing
    Essilor of America

  8. #33
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Please let sleeping dogs lie on OB regarding W.A.V.E., lest we doubting Thomas' start resurrecting Darryl Meister's and others posts proving that myth.

    Please?

    Have to run to get in line for that iphone 8!!!

  9. #34
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    Pete, is essilor planning on giving out trial certificates for the x design? Would really like to try it.

  10. #35
    sub specie aeternitas Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Golfnut, your local Essilor Brand or ELOA consultant may be able to hook you up. They have a limited number of samples they can provide to their accounts.

    Pete
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Director Technical Marketing
    Essilor of America

  11. #36
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Hanlin View Post
    A few notes: In a simultaneous contact lens, the lens is trying to provide far and near power (which requires a range of powers well over 1.00D and sometimes over 2.00D). As you noted, the simultaneous effect found in Varilux X Series lenses only occurs in the near and intermediate, and the power variation will therefore be much less pronounced (as in a few hundredths to as much as perhaps 0.50D).

    In the development of Xtend Technology, the designers actually focused on acuity targets rather than power (I believe in the white paper they have what looks like a contour plot- it's actually a plot of acuity). For a given point in the lens let's say they established an acuity target of 0.01 log MAR or higher for a viewing distance with a range of 45-54cm. They then worked to create optics that delivered that performance at the given point. In the process of hitting those acuity targets, it became necessary to develop a new calculation process (to allow them to more tightly control the optics of each area of the lens). I know the belief is "going digital" immediately creates infinite control of the surface, but in fact a designer is limited by the power of his/her calculator (because the calculation determines how finely a surface can be defined.

    Finally, although it gets discounted as a "marketing term," W.A.V.E. Technology 2 (Wavefront Advanced Vision Enhancement) is a real thing that does allow Varilux designers to create surfaces with lower levels of higher order aberrations (we can prove it with actual wearers and everything :^). When you add the "design based on acuity" approach to the ability to design away aberrations that reduce sharpness, the result is a lens that provides an "extended range of sharp vision within arm's reach" (which is the product claim).

    The ultimate proof is in the pudding (or, in this case, the vision), and personally speaking I do notice sharp, extended vision in the four pairs of Varilux X Design lenses I currently own (only downer about owning a couple dozen pair of glasses is updating them when the Rx changes- or when a new design you like comes out :^).
    Hope this helps address any concerns/questions...
    Pete
    All excellent information as usual Pete! I appreciate the well above average explanation. Thank you good Sir!

    P.S. Did you have a look at the eclipse this past Monday?

  12. #37
    sub specie aeternitas Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Actually, Essilor did the eclipse up pretty well. ISO eclipse glasses were supplied to everyone at home office (as well as the folks at our remote offices and labs). Here in Dallas, we also had a supply of Starburst candy, Orbit and Eclipse Gum, Sun Chips, and Capri Sun juice boxes (although I have to agree with a coworker who suggested we should have had some Corona as well ;^).

    We only had 76% coverage here, but the cloudless day made for great viewing! I was surprised it didn't get "darker" (felt like a mildly overcast day at the height of the eclipse). One of my fellow technical marketers also set up a pinhole camera. So, it was a cool event, but I'm REALLY looking forward to April 2024 (when Dallas will be in the totality area for an eclipse)!
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Director Technical Marketing
    Essilor of America

  13. #38
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    Hi Pete! I met you many years ago when you personally made me a pair of Varilux Comfort progressives and I seem to remember you brought them to me where I worked in Lewisville. I'm sure you remember, it wasn't more then 18 years ago!

    Anyway, I'm excited about these new lenses. I understand they are replacing the S series? How does the cost compare? And lastly, when will they be VSP approved?
    Last edited by Happylady; 09-05-2017 at 05:19 PM.

  14. #39
    sub specie aeternitas Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    I actually do remember delivering those lenses- but I don't think it was quite 18 years ago (probably closer to 9-10 :^)!

    You are correct- Varilux X Series progressive lenses will be the top of the Varilux portfolio going forward.

    Categorization will be the same as Varilux S Series (Varilux X Design = Category O, Varilux X Fit = Category N). There's a small increase to the wholesale price vs. Varilux S Series (you can get specifics from your local lab or brand consultant).
    Quote Originally Posted by Happylady View Post
    Hi Pete! I met you many years ago when you personally made me a pair of Varilux Comfort progressives and I seem to remember you brought them to me where I worked in Lewisville. I'm sure you remember, it wasn't more then 18 years ago!

    Anyway, I'm excited about these new lenses. I understand they are replacing the S series? How does the cost compare? And lastly, when will they be VSP approved?
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Director Technical Marketing
    Essilor of America

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    I learned that Varilux X will be VSP approved as of September 12th.

    Pete, our rep was telling us about the new Sapphire 360 AR. Says it's even clearer but since the lens was already 99.5% clear how much real improvement is there?

  16. #41
    Independent Problem Optiholic edKENdance's Avatar
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    So we start with the Varilux S and then the Varilux E and then the Varilux X with Xtenz?!?!?! I can't be the only one noticing this.

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    I received my x design today and I was unbelievably surprised! FYI I have been wearing the Id space from Hoya as every progressive that I have worn has fallen well short... Until now... Absolutely smooth transitioning up and down. I really am impressed at this point. My rx is only Plano +1.75 but I usually have a back vertex around 16 to 28 mm... I've used the compensated designs from the other pals and I did provide them with vtx and wrap for the x. If this lense preforms as well with my pt trials as mine we will definitely be selling this lense... Hate to feed essilor but I am over the top on this one. I'll post more when I get some pt feedback. Also, the sapphire 360 coating is huge improvement from previous sapphire... Very low residual color and didn't have to clean my but 1 time when I put them on. We get great pricing on Hoya and shamir lenses but like I said we will work this lense in fast once I get some more feedback. Interested on others take on this one

  18. #43
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    Blue Jumper If this lense preforms as well with my pt trials as mine ............................

    Quote Originally Posted by golfnut View Post



    If this lense preforms as well with my pt trials as mine we will definitely be selling this lense...

    Hate to feed essilor but I am over the top on this one. I'll post more when I get some pt feedback. Also, the sapphire 360 coating is huge improvement from previous sapphire... Very low residual color and didn't have to clean my but 1 time when I put them on. We get great pricing on Hoya and shamir lenses but like I said we will work this lense in fast once I get some more feedback. Interested on others take on this one


    They have always made top class lenses, as well as being owner of the largest batch of online opticals.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    They have always made top class lenses, as well as being owner of the largest batch of online opticals.
    I have a theory that there are two Varilux development cycles, so they always have a lens coming out to give their Reps something to talk about. One makes amazing lenses (Physio series), one makes meh lenses (Panamic, Varilux S) If the X is as good as I am hearing, they have a reason to be flexing their muscles in the industry right now.

    Chris they have a promotion going on this fall that if someone buys a Varilux X Transitions Crizal lens, they get ANOTHER lens completely paid for by Essilor. They are obviously confident in this lens design and extremely FLUSH with cash.

  20. #45
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Quince's Avatar
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    To be fair, the cost of what people are charging for Varilux X with Trans and Crizal should cover two pairs easily. It ain't cheap.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

  21. #46
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    I have a theory that there are two Varilux development cycles, so they always have a lens coming out to give their Reps something to talk about. One makes amazing lenses (Physio series), one makes meh lenses (Panamic, Varilux S) If the X is as good as I am hearing, they have a reason to be flexing their muscles in the industry right now.

    Chris they have a promotion going on this fall that if someone buys a Varilux X Transitions Crizal lens, they get ANOTHER lens completely paid for by Essilor. They are obviously confident in this lens design and extremely FLUSH with cash.
    Wonder why you feel the S is such garbage, but seem to believe the X isn't. It's cut on the same S design blank you realize, yes? The overall design of both series is quite similar according to several of the regional managers out this way we've had extended meetings with. At any rate, hardly enough difference to see one as terrible, and the other as magnificent it would seem.

    Pete? Your thoughts on the same?

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