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Thread: New progressive lens "welcomed"...........................

  1. #51
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    So you truly believe the Varilux S was a superior design to the Physio W3? Or even the Physio enhanced? Maybe I had a few bad experiences with it early and just said forget this stuff. I get WOWs with my IOT lenses, I get problems solved with the Physio designs. I got a higher price tag and my favorite indy labs having to outsource with the S.

    Maybe not two teams per se, but design cycles rather. So are they the same frontside blanks Pete?

  2. #52
    Independent Problem Optiholic edKENdance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    So you truly believe the Varilux S was a superior design to the Physio W3? Or even the Physio enhanced? Maybe I had a few bad experiences with it early and just said forget this stuff. I get WOWs with my IOT lenses, I get problems solved with the Physio designs. I got a higher price tag and my favorite indy labs having to outsource with the S.

    Maybe not two teams per se, but design cycles rather. So are they the same frontside blanks Pete?
    They're the same blanks. Essilor touted the S as superior to the Physio in every way yet we still have the Physio and they dropped the S. Something doesn't seem right about that.

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  3. #53
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    So you truly believe the Varilux S was a superior design to the Physio W3? Or even the Physio enhanced? Maybe I had a few bad experiences with it early and just said forget this stuff. I get WOWs with my IOT lenses, I get problems solved with the Physio designs. I got a higher price tag and my favorite indy labs having to outsource with the S.

    Maybe not two teams per se, but design cycles rather. So are they the same frontside blanks Pete?
    I can't speak for "better" or not per se. But I can say I have had far fewer adaption issues across the board with S vs anything in the Physio catalog. And the Physio design was never bad either. But remember that tech is more than a decade old as well. I've just never talked to any dispensers who have likes Physio, but hated S. And so far as I know, the S isn't going anywhere as alluded to in the post above here (edKENdance's comment, not yours I know), so not sure why that comment was made? *shrug*

  4. #54
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    My rep from an Essilor lab said the S was being discontinued, thats where I heard it. We all know how reliable the grapevine can be though.

    People complained of smaller reading/intermediate and a tighter feeling corridor in the S on more than one occasion. That is PURELY my anecdotal experience though. I have never had a Physio Enhanced/W3 non adapt that was cured by switching to another lens design though, and I really don't fit a ton of them either - but they are my "problem solver" lens.

  5. #55
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Interesting experience. I appreciate you sharing yours for sure. Here's to hoping the X really is the next big thing - commensurate to it's ridiculous price tag! Sorry Pete, while I have no troubles with Essilor's lenses at all optically speaking, the pricing structure is rather ridiculous, and just getting worse... :)

  6. #56
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    You're the authority when it comes to the straight poop on the latest tech and the outlook of Essilor.
    Well, I'm currently raising an 11 month old grandson, so I have a LOT of recent experience with poop! :)

    Regarding the blanks, as several have stated both Varilux S and Varilux X Series progressive lenses are made from the same blanks. Any future Varilux progressive with Nanoptix Technology (gets rid of swim and that "off-balance feeling" progressives create) will feature a similar- if not the same- blank. This blank (which is patented and only found on Varilux products) increases its radius in the near zone (the opposite geometry of traditional progressives), which manages magnification across the lens. It's a pretty cool design feature.

    Regarding discontinuation, yes the plan is to eventually discontinue Varilux S Series lenses, but you can still order them now and for the near future. A few factors to consider: a.) the wholesale price of X isn't considerably higher than S lenses (except on 1.50, which had an anomalous price on S), b.) the two products share the same categorization with the major managed care plans, and c.) studies show complete adaptation from S to X (7 of 10 see a dramatic improvement, and the other 3 don't dislike the new product). So from a dispensing viewpoint, it's very safe to upgrade the wearer's design- and given the number of complaints I receive about there being "too many lenses out there" I think it's a positive thing we're going to try for a full replacement of our top tier product.

    Regarding design cycles, each new technology will have its own level of performance improvement. The Varilux Physio family of products delivered sharper vision- which seemed to provide a pretty decent "wow" among wearers. Varilux S Series lenses reduced/eliminated swim, which created a varying level of wow (depending on how sensitive/adapted you are to swim- for me, it was a lifesaver). Varilux X Series lenses seem to deliver a pretty consistent wow (probably because who doesn't appreciated extended areas of sharp intermediate and near vision :^). The new calculation process created to process Xtend Technology just gives the designer a lot more control over the optics (French R&D folks don't often get "giddy," but that's the only way to describe their feelings about their new calculation engine :^).

    Now that the product has officially launched in the US (and has been available globally for a little while now), we've started to collect even more data on wearers' experiences with the product. All signs so far point to this being a game changer product (I definitely don't design these products, but I do help launch them- and I'll admit to pausing by home plate to watch this ball sail over the center field wall... it's a great feeling for this optician-turned-technical marketer guy :^).
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
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    Essilor of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Hanlin View Post
    Varilux X Series lenses seem to deliver a pretty consistent wow (probably because who doesn't appreciated extended areas of sharp intermediate and near vision :^).
    I have my problems with Essilor at times, but I will never deny my patients and clients the best products, heck I use Crizal almost all the time. Can't wait to start working with this lens.

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    I'm ordering my first pair of Varilux X lenses for someone who was a Comfort wearer for the last 4 years, +4.25 -50 @180 about each eye and +2.00 add.

    I'm excited to see if she loves them :)

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    Just finished edging these, they look beautiful and insanely thin in 1.67. I hope she likes them, the add seems like it was dropped quite a bit from the prescribed numbers, .36 diopeters in the right eye! Who knows what Varliux does with these lenses, the proof is in the pudding. Standard POW for this frame, fit like a glove. I'll let you guys know how she likes the pudding.
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    Last edited by Tallboy; 10-13-2017 at 10:38 AM.

  10. #60
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Looking forward to hearing your patient's experience with the new glasses. Hyperopes are always fun to deal with, because the optical gods have given them the "short end of the stick" so to speak (since they have higher total near powers and get to read through all that base up prism that throws the image even further down).

    Just a note about compensation, it doesn't change the ordered power at all (whether the compensation is being calculated by Essilor, Zeiss, Hoya, Shamir, etc.). Even a +4.00 spherical SV lens will read "weaker" than prescribed if tilted in the lensometer (a +4.00 sph lens will read +3.64 +0.27 x090 if tilted 15 degrees in the lensometer). Progressive lenses are always measured at a point away from the optical center and at a different angle than as worn. For this reason, manufacturers provide a "compensated power" (which is a misnomer- I wish it was called "measured power").
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Vice President Professional Services
    Essilor of America

    http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74

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    I am familiar with what you are describing Pete, and its a good point. No doubt different lenses come up with slightly different "measured powers" though.

    I am confident that Varilux knows a thing or two about lenses though and trust their design. Especially on hyperopes.

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    OptiBoard Professional Lee H's Avatar
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    Any feedback yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    Just finished edging these, they look beautiful and insanely thin in 1.67. I hope she likes them, the add seems like it was dropped quite a bit from the prescribed numbers, .36 diopeters in the right eye! Who knows what Varliux does with these lenses, the proof is in the pudding. Standard POW for this frame, fit like a glove. I'll let you guys know how she likes the pudding.
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    Any feedback yet that you can share?
    Thanks in advance!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee H View Post
    Any feedback yet that you can share?
    Thanks in advance!
    She loved the reading and most of the vision, said anecdotally similar things to what Pete said we should expect with it being so easy to find where she needed to read at just about any posture. Her left eye was very blurry in distance, but that is the case in her CL lenses she just got as well so seems to be a refraction issue. I will report back.

    I just am about to order my second pair, around
    -6.50 sph
    -7.00 and -1.25 cyl @ 90 with only a +1.00 add, first time wearer. I'll be interested in what she says because my house design I use would knock this RX out of the park, so I expect smiles and "wow its so easy" with the Varilux X

    Only thing I can be sure of right now about the Varilux X is it is expensive
    Last edited by Tallboy; 10-18-2017 at 02:45 PM.

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    Hey Pete,

    So I ordered a test pair +3.50 -1.00 x 180 +3.00add. B measurement 38, SH- 26. The lenses came with no prism thinning. I don't order a lot of Essilor lenses so I don't really have a comparison from other Essilor designs. The lenses were obviously a lot thicker on top. Is this how it should be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    Hey Pete,

    So I ordered a test pair +3.50 -1.00 x 180 +3.00add. B measurement 38, SH- 26. The lenses came with no prism thinning. I don't order a lot of Essilor lenses so I don't really have a comparison from other Essilor designs. The lenses were obviously a lot thicker on top. Is this how it should be?
    The +4.25
    ADD +2.00 example I posted was a SH of 24 and a B of 35, they came in as thin as I could possible have imagined, amazingly thin. I can't remember but I think there was definitely prism thinning in them. What you are saying seems strange but maybe with the +3.00 Add things are different with the design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    The +4.25
    ADD +2.00 example I posted was a SH of 24 and a B of 35, they came in as thin as I could possible have imagined, amazingly thin.
    Thanks for the input. I'm a little confused by the amazingly thin aspect though. Do you think they are somehow thinner than they would have been in any other design? That seems improbable to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    Thanks for the input. I'm a little confused by the amazingly thin aspect though. Do you think they are somehow thinner than they would have been in any other design? That seems improbable to me.
    Degree of Asphericity used in the design, prism thinning, front curve, if add is on the front. It wasn't that much thinner than say a physio W3, but it was much thinner than an Autograph III or many IOT designs would have been. Seemed almost flat on the back, cut on a 5.25 base. For a +4.25 lens with a +2.00 add, that is impressive if along with that thinness comes superior optics.

    The trick isn't making a lens thin, any jerk can do that, its making it thin that you can see out of - and then if you can see superbly? Well thats a thing of art in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    Degree of Asphericity used in the design, prism thinning, front curve, if add is on the front. It wasn't that much thinner than say a physio W3, but it was much thinner than an Autograph III or many IOT designs would have been. Seemed almost flat on the back, cut on a 5.25 base. For a +4.25 lens with a +2.00 add, that is impressive if along with that thinness comes superior optics.

    The trick isn't making a lens thin, any jerk can do that, its making it thin that you can see out of - and then if you can see superbly? Well thats a thing of art in my opinion.

    Yes, I am aware of how a plus lens can be physically made thinner. Whether or not it has superior optics is yet to be seen IMO.

    I am still perplexed how differently our orders were processed. You received an lens that was prism thinned and almost plano back(maybe even convex in the reading?) on a 5.25 BC, and I received a not-prism thinned 8.00 Base lens with a very concave back curve. If the vision is good, I suspect mine was processed incorrectly since yours is far better cosmetically. Has anyone else ordered these yet that would like to share their findings?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill212 View Post
    Yes, I am aware of how a plus lens can be physically made thinner. Whether or not it has superior optics is yet to be seen IMO.
    Oh I'm sorry I thought you were questioning the probability of one plus progressive lens design being thinner than another design, my misunderstanding.

    There is no doubt, so far, that it has superior optics to many many lenses out there. Always a point of diminishing return on investment though when you start splitting hairs between lenses that would retail at $450 to $600 dollars in scratch coated CR39, they are all awfully good.

  20. #70
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Hey Pete,
    So I ordered a test pair +3.50 -1.00 x 180 +3.00add. B measurement 38, SH- 26. The lenses came with no prism thinning. I don't order a lot of Essilor lenses so I don't really have a comparison from other Essilor designs. The lenses were obviously a lot thicker on top. Is this how it should be?

    Hello Kwill (sorry for the slow response- I'm up at the cabin preparing for deer season :^),
    All Varilux lenses should come with prism thinning- so I would consult with your lab regarding the extra thickness you received. Hopefully, they can resolve the issue and provide some thinner lenses.

    Tallboy- don't you see any -2.00 sph patients?!? Seriously, a high myope with low ADD is usually pretty easy to make happy- so hopefully all goes well (hope I didn't just jinx the order :^). The absolute WORST patient is that +0.50 sph patient who has always gotten away without wearing Rx who becomes presbyopic (they've put off wearing glasses, and when the piper comes the collect, they are usually miserable :^P).

    Best regards,
    Pete



    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Vice President Professional Services
    Essilor of America

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    Hello Kwill (sorry for the slow response- I'm up at the cabin preparing for deer season :^),
    All Varilux lenses should come with prism thinning- so I would consult with your lab regarding the extra thickness you received. Hopefully, they can resolve the issue and provide some thinner lenses.
    Thanks Pete, that's what I figured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Hanlin View Post

    Tallboy- don't you see any -2.00 sph patients?!? Seriously, a high myope with low ADD is usually pretty easy to make happy- so hopefully all goes well (hope I didn't just jinx the order :^). The absolute WORST patient is that +0.50 sph patient who has always gotten away without wearing Rx who becomes presbyopic (they've put off wearing glasses, and when the piper comes the collect, they are usually miserable :^P).
    Not nearly enough, though I see some of them :)

    For what it is worth I have started using Office Designs for those +0.50 people who are going to use their expensive progressive lenses as glorified readers that will spend their time on the top of their head or hanging off their shirt collar. Has been a godsend for many of them.

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    So on the Optical Jedi blog he says that the distance area on the new X is narrower. From the stuff I've seem on it, it didn't seem to be the case- but is it? I know that in general if a progressive has a superior distance the reading area can suffer and visa versa.

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    Hi Pete,

    Could you tell me what Rx the X is ideal for, i.e. High plus, high minus, high astigmatism, low astigmatism, add.etc.

    From what I have read above the X design does not change with the new and improved algorithm, therefore just like with gloves there is no such thing as one size fits all, who is the safest wearer for the X and with which Rx can we expect jitters?

    Life experience has shown us that attempts for one size fits all products are usually only somewhat successful.

    If am am going to be giving the X PALs to some customers who are my safest bets? ( I want very happy customers)

    Thank you

  25. #75
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mordechai View Post
    Hi Pete,
    Could you tell me what Rx the X is ideal for, i.e. High plus, high minus, high astigmatism, low astigmatism, add.etc...

    Life experience has shown us that attempts for one size fits all products are usually only somewhat successful. If am am going to be giving the X PALs to some customers who are my safest bets? ( I want very happy customers)
    Thank you
    Hello mordechai,
    BTW, Your namesake was a pretty cool character in the book of Esther (sorry, my major was theology and some characters just stand out in my memory ;^)...

    The R&D process used to create Varilux designs (LiveOptics) results in a rather robust multi-design strategy (btw, you can watch a video on LiveOptics heres here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6UuEh4NfI ). The intro is a bit lengthy, but it eventually describes how new designs are developed using a lot of wearer studies.

    Point being, the Varilux design process involves a lot of prototype testing on real wearers. The Varilux X Series development process involved 19 separate studies involving over 2,000 individual wearers. In each of these studies, care is made to represent all Rx categories (myopes, hyperopes, emmetropes, high cyl, various ADD levels, etc.). Incremental design steps are based on the performance in each category. The result is the designs used for each category become quite diverse. Let's say one of the early studies shows really strong improvement for myopes- but no improvement for hyperopes. The data from that study will be used to inform the next iteration of the design process for the hyperopic range, and changes continue until the hyperopes are experiencing similar increases in performance. Before the process is considered "complete," the studies will need to show substantial improvement in the targeted visual functions for ALL Rx categories (which means the Varilux X Series "design" will be quite different for a hyperope vs. a myope). Usually the trickiest Rx category is actually emmetropes (because a +0.25 sph patient is going to be super critical in distance vision, because s/he sees quite well without glasses at distance). It's actually pretty interesting when you start to drill down into the differences between how a hyperope perceives a progressive design vs. a myope. Differences in retinal shape, prismatic effects, and visual habits really do result in a situation where a single approach just doesn't cut it.

    "Which Varilux for which Rx range" is a very common question, but in reality the design process is based upon ensuring patients across the entire Rx range receive the full benefit of the improved visual function- in the case of Varilux X Series, this means all Rx categories receive the same extended range benefit.

    As a premium progressive, Varilux wants to make sure you have very happy customers as well (after all, if the lens doesn't differentiate the practitioner the patient is more likely to try a retailer- where they are extremely unlikely to receive Varilux)! There will ALWAYS be "outlier" patients (i.e., there is always going to be that one patient who has worn Varilux Comfort for 20 years and just always prefers Varilux Comfort), but on the whole patients should notice a real improvement as they go up the Varilux range.

    Hope this answers your query,
    Pete
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Vice President Professional Services
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