pressuring patients

[Mizikal]

So yesterday I had a patient in ordering glasses for their child. We had picked out a frame and I sat down to talk about lens options and as soon as I said A/R she said no. She told me she had it on her lenses and didn't want it. Not because it didn't work but because she told the optican selling it to her she didn't want it but he wouldn't shut up about it and wore her down. I feel like that experience has left a bad taste in her mouth and will never consider the upgrade no matter the benefits. I understand a salesperson that takes no for an answer never makes a sale but how many times does the patient have to tell you they don't want a product or service? I know when patients have objestions to the A/R I offer a rebutle and will usually leave it at that. I don't find I have a lot of objections to begin with though, I don't have a problem saying no to a salesperson. I do have a problem repeating it though and I don't like the feeling of being pressured or not being listened to. When do you stop trying to make the sale? I am curiois to hear from some owners and manager as to how you want your opticians to be.

[gaspoweredrobot]

The golden rule is Two No's. Offer it, they say no, you rebut, they say no again, you stop there. The third time they tell you no, it'll be as they're walking out.

You'll always find people who refuse to listen or have their minds changed if you deal with enough people. If your concern is your profitability, stop sinking payroll dollars into wasted effort on these patients and move on to the next patient.

[Quince]

After determining what the glasses will be used for, we usually start with the office recommended option, which has AR, and then go over what is included. If patients want to take anything out than that is not an issue as long as we have stated the benefits. There are certain jobs where we don't push AR at all (like construction) and almost never on safety glasses because of the lack of warranty availability. I definitely see it as a case by case, or Rx by Rx, issue. If I have a -6.00 -2.00 cyl who has tired eyes from backlit screens I'm certainly going to use my 'I know better' face.

[Slim]

In our office the Dr. "prescribes it" if you will. Office policy is that all lenses come with at least Sharpview, but most do sapphire.
Like quince said there are times where we wont do it. If they refuse it, it no longer has a warr on the lens. AR is at 95% every month.

Usually if someone says they dont want it again, ill nicely ask what is it you dont like. 99% of the time its smudging and I school them on the fact that there is oil in the bevel, clean it all up, give them my cleaning tips and they are cool. If its a matter of " I didnt notice anything" ill say "GOOD!" "its working!" I also have a sample lens that is half and half AR - non-ar. I show them that and that sells them back. super rarely does it go past, but 2 times and Im done trying.

One that bugged me bad was a lady came in that had an optician friend (not local) and told her not to get AR as its a scam... really??? She got the AR.. :)

[Chris Ryser]

In our office the Dr. "prescribes it" if you will. Office policy is that all lenses come with at least Sharpview, but most do sapphire.
Like quince said there are times where we wont do it. If they refuse it, it no longer has a warr on the lens. AR is at 95% every month.

That is the only fast way to get rich ...........................

for a doctor owner, to prescribe the most expensive mechanical addition to a sale of Rx glasses, so the patients think they have no choice.

That is why AR sells at 95% every month, by forcing the customers to purchase it.

[Barry Santini]

This is the central reason prescribers should not be fulfillers

[rbaker]

This is the central reason prescribers should not be fulfillers

Ahh, but they are, and there ain't nothing that can be done about it. Goes way back to the early days of optometry and was adopted by ophthalmology in the sixties. This, combined with commissioned opticians (sales clerks) and the poor consumer doesn't stand a chance.

[Browman]

Ahh, but they are, and there ain't nothing that can be done about it. Goes way back to the early days of optometry and was adopted by ophthalmology in the sixties. This, combined with commissioned opticians (sales clerks) and the poor consumer doesn't stand a chance.

I never felt comfortable with the whole "doctor prescribed thing" for a number of reasons, including those you've mentioned. In our office, it often led to our OD selling to the patient while other patients waited in the room and we stood off to the side looking confused and anxious. The "powers that be" had convinced our OD so thoroughly that "the patient is here to see you, and only you" and then hammered in the "you prescribe the AR/photochromic/PAL" mentality that it almost literally left the optician no further purpose beyond PAL marking and adjustment. Of course, we never made commissions, so, it didn't matter so terribly much.

[Kujiradesu]

Pressuring patients: This has always been my least favorite part of my work; thankfully I'm in the shop more often than not. I understand the need to "sell", but I can only be convincing if the patient sitting in front of me has a need for whatever I'm selling them. Not every presbyope needs a PAL. Not every set of lenses needs AR. A vast majority of photochromic wearers don't really need it. Finally, polished edges are used way too much as a way to tack on $25 to a sale.

Prescribing as selling: I've always thought that this type of practice is a sure-fire way to ensure your patients don't trust you. I know what I would feel like if the name-brand lens on my Rx was one of the most expensive options on the list. IMHO, even though ODs are aware of lenses and may prescribe in certain circumstances for specific reasons; for the most part lens selection, and what is appropriate for a particular patient should be left to the optician.

[optical24/7]

I think it's extremely dependent on the Dr and location. Is the Dr up to date on the latest technical aspects and uses for lens designs/coatings/treatments? And does he take the time to delve into patient history, lifestyle, work environment and intended use of the devises he's recommending? Does he have extremely competent employees in the dispensary? Or is he a turn and burn with the same check list recommended to every patient?

[Uilleann]

That is the only fast way to get rich ...........................

for a doctor owner, to prescribe the most expensive mechanical addition to a sale of Rx glasses, so the patients think they have no choice.

That is why AR sells at 95% every month, by forcing the customers to purchase it.

Honestly? This may well be the most ridiculous statement I see all day. And that is saying a lot. 100% of patients will ALWAYS benefit 100% of the time from the clearest, most scratch resistant, easiest to clean spectacle lens they can get. They will not all care for their lenses as they should, but to state that AR serves no other purpose but to make a doctor "rich" is literally asinine and deserves to be pointed out fully as such.

[Slim]

you guys kinda ran away with this a lil bit. our doc does NO selling in the room at all, we beg him to do just a lil, plant the seed if you will... he marks on the routing slip what he wants the pt to have or talked about in the room.

Docs plant the seed and we water it...

our 95% ar was even before we was "on every lens" we do a fantastic job of educating the pt. and once they are in it, who wouldnt want it again.

[rbaker]

100% of patients will ALWAYS benefit 100% of the time from the clearest, most scratch resistant, easiest to clean spectacle lens they can get.

Were that the case you would ALWAYS be selling spectacle crown glass lenses.

[Slim]

Case in point... JUST now had a guy I personally know from the local archery shop. He didnt like the AR because he couldnt keep it clean. Ok i cleaned them all up, took lenses out and got the edges... etc... he said im not getting it this time so dont waste your time... I said ok lemme show you one thing before you opt to have less than perfect vision. I showed him my half and half ar blank. told him that this is how youre going to see now, like your looking thru a haze all the time, and it WONT clean off.

he ho'ed and hummed and decided to not get it. I lost.

at the end of it all he was bragging about three new expensive guns he got... I wanted to say "ya know those nice scopes you get for those, all have ar on them, and you spent thousands on guns you prob wont use, but you cant spend $37 (vsp sig) to see better at what your shooting at?????"

its all about priorities i guess. you wear glasses more than any other thing else. but people decide to cheap on that.

[Chris Ryser]

Honestly? This may well be the most ridiculous statement I see all day. And that is saying a lot. 100% of patients will ALWAYS benefit 100% of the time from the clearest, most scratch resistant, easiest to clean spectacle lens they can get.

Just as a reminder on total AR sales in the USA, according to the last 2014 figures was at:

1. The Anti‐reflective lens market is another market that sagged during the recession, and like photochromics, we have seen a solid rebound in this market that started in late 2010 and continued throughout the year 2014. Sales activity has returned to pre‐recession levels and has grown well beyond 2007/2008 figures. During the year‐ending period Dec’08, 21.6 million pairs of A‐R lenses were sold, representing 28.7% off all lenses sold domestically in the US.

2. During the year‐ending period Dec’14 the number of AR lens pairs sold in the US stood at 23.8 million pairs, representing 29.8% of all lenses sold. During the 12ME period Dec’14, AR unit sales grew by 4.6% (an absolute increase of 1M additional lenses). Much of this increase is the result of increased purchasing activity by eyeglass wearers over the age of 55, and Americans residing in the NE region of the country. There has also been increased purchases of AR lenses by people from higher income households (AHI of $60K+) and people with some type of MVC benefits or insurance coverage

https://www.thevisioncouncil.org/sit...K-Combined.pdf

So now most probably the sales figure has gone to around the 30% or a little higher, so we must have some of the all time champions that sell 95% AR lenses, right here on OptiBoard.

[Quince]

Optical 24/7 is completely right. In the case of 'our' doctor- he is the head of the state board and constantly in seminars getting industry updates. Just like Slim, we beg him to mention certain points during exam so that we can flesh out what it needed for the patient.

Not everything is about money. I know it's hard for some people on here to think that anyone who sells AR isn't doing to rip patients off, but the fact is, we are opticians who believe in what we are offering and educating on. You don't have to like it but stop trying to convince us we are bad people because something effective costs money.

[optical24/7]

Just as a reminder on total AR sales in the USA, according to the last 2014 figures was at:



So now most probably the sales figure has gone to around the 30% or a little higher, so we must have some of the all time champions that sell 95% AR lenses, right here on OptiBoard.

Chris, I don't know why you doubt or think AR sales are low for everybody. Keep in mind, if I sell 100% AR and you sell none it would work out to 50%. Also, we, (Americans) are FAR behind the rest of the modern world in AR sales. Europe clocked in at 65% and Japan at 90%!.....From this article that's 14 yrs old! I bet there are more percentages sold today...

http://www.eyecarebusiness.com/issue...plays-catch-up

Also, keep in mind you can't buy a top quality camera lens, rifle scope, microscope or even a lensometer lens without it! Why is that? Because they would not give as sharp, crisp non-ghosting image. Who wouldn't like this visual enhancement?

[JuliaG]

I like the 2 no rule. That said I'm shocked by the low AR numbers. We don't sell anything without it.

[Slim]

update to above guy... I just helped his wife after he left. She said "doc said my rx barely changed, so Ill just get that" I looked at her eye brow raised...
"what? you dont want your new lenses to be the current rx?? is there a reason why?"
"well it didn't change much"
*dumb founded*
I think through it & I came up with.... she thinks it will be cheaper in my head so...
"If you're getting a whole new pair, you should get the new rx.... its the same price"
then she was like oh... cmon on people.

[mervinek]

Chris, I don't know why you doubt or think AR sales are low for everybody. Keep in mind, if I sell 100% AR and you sell none it would work out to 50%. Also, we, (Americans) are FAR behind the rest of the modern world in AR sales. Europe clocked in at 65% and Japan at 90%!.....From this article that's 14 yrs old! I bet there are more percentages sold today...

http://www.eyecarebusiness.com/issue...plays-catch-up

Also, keep in mind you can't buy a top quality camera lens, rifle scope, microscope or even a lensometer lens without it! Why is that? Because they would not give as sharp, crisp non-ghosting image. Who wouldn't like this visual enhancement?

I'm at 56%... I'm told the national average is 37%. Keep in mind that farmers and mechanics usually don't get them in their work pair, so that would have an effect on your AR sales!

[Slim]

Were are in a very farm based area. This didn't happen overnight. when i first started at this place, we were at 17% ar. horrid. we worked on it some, the other 2 opticians didn't sell it well and we flattened out around 50% for a while. the 2 others retired and got 2 new ones with a can do attitude and wasn't afraid to teach people and we held up 85%. now we tweaked a few things, plus the year ago people that got ar are now coming back in, and its a lot easier to keep up that 90+%

[mervinek]

Just curious how your farmers do... Do you recommend 2 pair? How do they do with AR on their work glasses? I prefer to recommend a dress pair with AR and a trivex no AR for work. The ones who do the dress pair and the work pair do very well with the dress pair in great condition and they take good care of them. The work pair, they beat up.

[Mizikal]

Were are in a very farm based area. This didn't happen overnight. when i first started at this place, we were at 17% ar. horrid. we worked on it some, the other 2 opticians didn't sell it well and we flattened out around 50% for a while. the 2 others retired and got 2 new ones with a can do attitude and wasn't afraid to teach people and we held up 85%. now we tweaked a few things, plus the year ago people that got ar are now coming back in, and its a lot easier to keep up that 90+%

When I had farmers a long time ago. I had a hard time getting them out of glass but man did they love photogrey. They needed something that could fly accross the room and not get scratched.

[Slim]

I feel them out... and thats where some of the 5-10% goes. construction people, mechanics. We realize we cant be 100% as a whole. ive had about 3 months personally at 100% tho

[JDH]

DEMONSTRATE IT.
A/R sells itself on appearance alone for the majority of people.
Have a couple of frames and lenses with and without A/R so they can see how it looks on you.
People like to look good in their eyewear.
Like anything else, if you lead with cost and discount plans /"insurance," you're dead in the water. Leave that to the front desk people when they are checking out.