Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 47

Thread: Polycarbonate

  1. #1
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bangor, ME
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    675

    Polycarbonate

    Are there states that require Poly for kids under 18 BY LAW? by law is they key.
    "what i need is a strong drink and a peer group." ... Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy

  2. #2
    OptiBoard Professional ThePinkRanger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Pittsfield, MA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    103
    We do in Massachusetts.

  3. #3
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Gold Hill, OR
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    4,310
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinkRanger View Post
    We do in Massachusetts.
    Please provide citation.

  4. #4
    OptiBoard Professional ThePinkRanger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Pittsfield, MA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    Please provide citation.
    I guess I take back that statement! I've always been told that it was but I can't find documentation.

  5. #5
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,010
    I am unaware of any such laws in Washington State. Some insurances are specific as to the use of polycarbonate for pediatrics. Other insurances will cover a non polycarbonate in full for pediatric patients; those 18 or under. Duty to warn. Basically, it is designed to protect both you and the consumer but does not divert responsibility from the dispenser. I most always use polycarbonate for pediatric patients but have been know to use Trivex for some.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  6. #6
    Master OptiBoarder RIMLESS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    422
    Quote Originally Posted by becc971 View Post
    Are there states that require Poly for kids under 18 BY LAW? by law is they key.

    "By Law" doesn't really matter at all. If someone sustains an injury that could have been even slightly mitigated by the use of poly then you've got some explaining to do.
    90% of everything is crap...except for crap, because crap is 100% crap

  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder Mizikal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    kansas city
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    512
    I have never heard of any law but I think its just standard practice. I have always wondered if anybody has actually faced a lawsuit from not using poly. I am personally not a fan of poly but I put kids in it because policy and again standard practice.

  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC, USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,874
    ANSI standards........not a law, make it prudent. Duty to Warn requires we recommend appropriate materials, and warn patients IN WRITING, if the materials are not safe for use. Not using appropriate materials for children (like poly, or now some newer materials) places us at risk for legal action.

  9. #9
    Bad address email on file
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,175
    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    ANSI standards........not a law, make it prudent. Duty to Warn requires we recommend appropriate materials, and warn patients IN WRITING, if the materials are not safe for use. Not using appropriate materials for children (like poly, or now some newer materials) places us at risk for legal action.
    Do you know of any lawsuits personally? I remember reading about one many years ago but have never met a lab owner who was sued or optician. Thanks as always.

    The old Omega group created that when we wanted to sell Poly "Ulta Litestyle" and scare people away from cr-39 for kids; it worked well and continues to this day. It does not make sense to not use poly or trivex in most cases for anyone yet alone kids.

  10. #10
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Central Texas
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    526
    "Duty to Warn"

    Not a law, but a civil litigation precedent.


    Q. What brought about optical's interest in the duty to warn?
    It was prompted by a 1987 case where a rancher, who had been wearing glass lenses that broke, was injured and sued the optometrist. Back then, polycarbonate wasn't widely known, and there were no photochromics, the feature the farmer particularly wanted, in poly. It was determined that the practitioner was responsible for providing information on product options.
    ---http://www.2020mag.com/story/357

    I want to say that particular case was here in Texas, but that's been years since I read on it so I can't swear to it. Other sources from a quick Google suggest there were similar outcomes in other such cases.

    If a parent wants to CR-39 it, they can. They'll be buying from someone else besides me, but my competitor won't be breaking the law. Neither will they be civilly liable for a kid's injury...so long as they remembered to tell the parent about poly's (or Trivex's) relative shatter resistance.

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,010
    "DUTY TO WARN" It has become our responsibility to explain the hierarchy of a lens material's ability to meet certain shatter resistant criteria. It is also prudent to keep documentation of that conversation with each patient. There does not appear to be any "according to Hoyle" rules regarding mandatory fitting of specific materials for dress eyewear. Obviously, one would not want to put a child into glass lenses with their dress frame. That said, many of us who grew up before poly remember wearing safety frames with safety thickness glass lenses or safety thick glass lenses as children. I managed to keep my eyes and can not recall anyone in the neighborhood shooting their eyes out.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  12. #12
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,770
    So remember those shipments of lenses that were held in port from those online eyeglass clowns? It wasn't for botched PDs, or off power optics. It was because large batches failed to meet minimum impact requirements the US has in place. In any number of materials is what I seem to remember hearing. Even CR-39 in the US is required to have minimum impact requirements in dress lenses is it not?

    In my decades behind the dispensing desk, I cannot recall a single case of litigation against a dispenser, doctor, lab or lens manufacturer from a shattered lens induced injury. Of course, even poly & Trivex aren't shatter "proof". But I wonder if this is a dinosaur from the early 20th century and glass lenses that the industry just perpetuates more as an urban myth rather than solid science.

    Feel free to discuss.

  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mitten State
    Occupation
    Ophthalmic Technician
    Posts
    456
    Apparently the FDA, under the CFR, has the final say on this:

    http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...cfm?fr=801.410

    I would assume, as long as you can meet this, you're ok.

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,010
    For clarity nothing and I mean nothing can compare to glass. With the addition of Free Form application it gets even better. As to it's durability (impact resistance), honestly I have tried to remove glass lenses from frames by beating on them with a framing hammer and it does little to the surface of glass. Try doing that to poly or any other lens material. How glass gets a bad name is beyond me. But we live in America; a litigious society whose inhabitants refuse to take responsibility for their actions and financially rewards those who lack the common sense God gave to a dung beetle.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  15. #15
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,951
    The way it was explained to me years back when I moved to NC, is "what is the standard of care?" The state of North Carolina only provides poly for state mandated medicaid Eyewear up to the age of 6. After that age, they ask for some documentation, not just that "hey, that's what everyone does, and I'm afraid of getting sued ", medical documentation. The state just set the standard of care I need to follow. Do I? No, of course not.

    Remember, if something bad happens to anyone today, it is always someone else's fault. You will get sued if those poly lenses didn't stop an errant .22 in a drive by, lawyers chase money, and it's only "insurance" money to the jury, someone has to pay.

  16. #16
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC, USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,874
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Do you know of any lawsuits personally? I remember reading about one many years ago but have never met a lab owner who was sued or optician. Thanks as always.

    The old Omega group created that when we wanted to sell Poly "Ulta Litestyle" and scare people away from cr-39 for kids; it worked well and continues to this day. It does not make sense to not use poly or trivex in most cases for anyone yet alone kids.
    Folks, this is not a law. It is a professional recommendation from folks who have studied the issue significantly. Do as you will, as is often the case in a poorly educated mob of folks going in disparate directins like Opticianry. But know that not following these things places you in breach of what is called the "Standard of Care"......important to every profession. Have there been legal cases against Opticians and other ECPs? Absolutely! You can look back as far as the Glendale Optical case in California nearly 50 years ago, and see the beginning of this "duty to warn" issue. There have been a number of others, many listed in Classe's book, Legal Aspects of Optometry from years back. But you see, this should be common knowledge among folks in the field, both lab personnel and those in the dispensary. Unfortunately with this hodge-podge approach to training in this country, the current (and it appears some not-so-current) folks in the field are left to on their own again dependent on a place like Optiboard to train them. We need to educate Opticians in this country so all will receive the requisite knowledge to function in the field. Until then, we remain ignorant of many of the basics. Learn about this issue and protect yourselves from potential risk.

  17. #17
    Bad address email on file
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,175

    Trivex is my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    Folks, this is not a law. It is a professional recommendation from folks who have studied the issue significantly. Do as you will, as is often the case in a poorly educated mob of folks going in disparate directins like Opticianry. But know that not following these things places you in breach of what is called the "Standard of Care"......important to every profession. Have there been legal cases against Opticians and other ECPs? Absolutely! You can look back as far as the Glendale Optical case in California nearly 50 years ago, and see the beginning of this "duty to warn" issue. There have been a number of others, many listed in Classe's book, Legal Aspects of Optometry from years back. But you see, this should be common knowledge among folks in the field, both lab personnel and those in the dispensary. Unfortunately with this hodge-podge approach to training in this country, the current (and it appears some not-so-current) folks in the field are left to on their own again dependent on a place like Optiboard to train them. We need to educate Opticians in this country so all will receive the requisite knowledge to function in the field. Until then, we remain ignorant of many of the basics. Learn about this issue and protect yourselves from potential risk.
    I brought poly to the market 25+ years ago and trivex has been around for almost 15 years??; yet trivex is less than 5% of the market with cr-39 still the majority after over 50++ years on the market.
    Wow, we need to offer products that have not been around longer than your average patient age.

    We should not have to still teach folks what to do; they should just do the right thing and offer trivex in 92%+ of the RX's. The cost difference to produce and offer is very little with modern equipment.

    Your patients want trivex properties so why not just give it to them?

    I do not own trivex/PPG but don't offer or wear anything but the best overall lens material.

    Can we move-on to modern way to obtain proper refractive error so the patient can see as well as possible? The future is bright if we embrace the new technology and the education that it takes to utilize it as effectively as possible.

    GREAT HEARING YOU SPEAK ON REFRACTING AT OPTICON!! I learned why we need to embrace the refracting of the future since we have not take proper usage of the past.

  18. #18
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    in Naples FL for the Winter months
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    23,240

    Blue Jumper Unfortunately with this hodgepodge approach ......................

    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post

    Unfortunately with this hodgepodge approach to training in this country, the current (and it appears some not-so-current) folks in the field are left to on their own again dependent on a place like Optiboard to train them. We need to educate Opticians in this country so all will receive the requisite knowledge to function in the field. Until then, we remain ignorant of many of the basics. Learn about this issue and protect yourselves from potential risk.

    Warren you are so right ............................

    However it did not happen, that is why this Continent has become the training playground of the on-line optical industry for the last 10 years, that is now also heavily expanding into Europe with the help of major optical corporations were in most countries opticians had a high standard of education.
    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  19. #19
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,770
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    ...Europe...were in most countries opticians had a high standard of education.
    You mean Europe - where super thin glass lenses are dispensed that can shatter rather easily? THAT Europe? Still waiting to hear what the geniuses of the board have to say about the mandated minimum impact requirements in the US of CR-39 as an example.

  20. #20
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    At a position without dimension...
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    4,413
    There is duty to warn but no law. So carry adequate liability insurance for your business. These rare cases get routinely settled out of court. And yes- I do know of one. The MD specifically stated on the rx to use polycarbonate and the shop did not. An accident caused an injury. The doctor volunteered to testify if it went to trial. To my knowledge it was settled. This was decades ago when poly first came out. All the shops in the area got a letter explicitly warning us to fill rx's stating poly as written. The rx pads now have all kinds of duty to warn on them concerning dress safety and sports eye wear.

  21. #21
    OptiBoard Novice
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    California
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    5
    AMEN to what Craig said!!! Its all about what is standard of care for the industry. Our patients come to us for our professional recommendations and Poly is the standard of care for the industry. Trivex SHOULD be the standard for as long as it has been around, and the benefits to the wearer, but labs don't like it near as much as poly, so they don't push it. Why is CR 39 still being made and used when we all know there are better materials for our patients? Duty to warn? What about our Duty to our patients. If you really had the best interest of your patient at heart, then this is a no brainer. Recommend what is best for their visual health. What would you want you heart surgeon to tell you? Lets use this valve for you because its cheaper? We've been using it for years and only had a few of them break? Please...

  22. #22
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,010
    Individualized Care is what I practice. What exactly is the industry standard of care. It sounds institutional with gray walls,absent of personality,and no glass windows.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  23. #23
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    in Naples FL for the Winter months
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    23,240

    Blue Jumper The best material for your vision is mineral glass....................

    Quote Originally Posted by eye2020eye View Post

    Our patients come to us for our professional recommendations and Poly is the standard of care for the industry.

    Why is CR 39 still being made and used when we all know there are better materials for our patients?

    Please...


    The best material for your vision is mineral glass.

    The next best lens material after glass is C39, and you better accept the facts, instead of promoting safety before vision.

    Promote safety where needed and required but promote better vision above all.
    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  24. #24
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bangor, ME
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    675
    I just love seeing a thread take a crazy turn
    "what i need is a strong drink and a peer group." ... Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,010
    Quote Originally Posted by becc971 View Post
    I just love seeing a thread take a crazy turn
    Ah hum, well you did start it.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Polycarbonate. Is it all the same?
    By LENNY in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 11-29-2010, 11:19 PM
  2. Polycarbonate Fogging
    By sportywei in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-25-2007, 04:23 AM
  3. Polycarbonate w/ AR
    By DocInChina in forum Optical Marketplace
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-17-2007, 10:28 AM
  4. Polycarbonate
    By April_01 in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 11-21-2005, 06:04 PM
  5. Drilling Polycarbonate
    By Pete Hanlin in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-09-2001, 10:51 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OptiBoard is proudly sponsored by:
Younger Optics and Vision Equipment