A Little Help For Jody Maybe?

**John@OWDC** · 09-11-2016, 02:22 PM

If anyone here cares Jody Shuler is over on ODs On Facebook getting crucified for trying to take all of us into a whole new world.

For the handful of you that get it, Jody, an independent optician, is offering on site refraction without a doctor on site.

If you can't see the amazing possibilities that could mean for opticians and the future of opticianry then I feel sorry for all of us.

Maybe a few of us could give him a hand and support him?

Don't go down the rabbit hole and get involved with back-and-forth or think that you are going to change anyones mind! Don't do it!

Just say that a refraction is a refraction and an exam is an exam.

As these apps become perfected you support making refraction available to opticians.

And, thanks to Jody for opening the way to one possible future where the independent optician can be just that.

Except for me and a little help (sort of) from Barry Santini he is out there all alone.

**obxeyeguy** · 09-11-2016, 03:36 PM

What state is he in, and is it a licensed optician state? If not, moot point.

**LENNY** · 09-12-2016, 07:47 PM

NYC?
I also doubt that they will be happy with the results from that instrument! A friend of mine has it also and not so trilled! (It was a right timing for him ... His OD retired and could not find a new OD....) That thing o a stick is verrry limited! But I am 100% ready to help! Let me know how!

**CNG** · 09-12-2016, 11:19 PM

It seems illogical to be part of that discussion in a close group like that. Personal facebook accounts are linked to business accounts and it only takes a few disgruntled ods to ruin a perfectly earned good business reputation. Pick fights that you can win.

**Chris Ryser** · 09-13-2016, 12:27 AM

I am not a Facebook member nor fan of it. So, I believe that here on OptiBoard we should not get involved into any happenings on other Internet sites.

People with professional problems should come to OptiBoard, which is the best and well known Forum on the Internet and of of the highest ranking, and us active members should be aware that we should not mix into happenings on others sites.

**Lelarep** · 09-13-2016, 01:25 AM

I have to agree with Chris Ryser. What we do here, stays here, and what goes on elsewhere shouldn't spillover onto here.

**Craig** · 09-13-2016, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by Chris Ryser

I am not a Facebook member nor fan of it. So, I believe that here on OptiBoard we should not get involved into any happenings on other Internet sites.

People with professional problems should come to OptiBoard, which is the best and well known Forum on the Internet and of of the highest ranking, and us active members should be aware that we should not mix into happenings on others sites.

This is an example of ? thinking.

Optiboard should be the only place folks can share ideas and then get bashed by the members! Fakebook is here to stay and the viability of Optiboard is more the ? of the future.

Time to look at the past to see how it influences the future.

Craig- I have had self-refracting for a year now.

**Chris Ryser** · 09-13-2016, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by Craig

This is an example of ? (questionable) thinking.

Optiboard should be the only place folks can share ideas and then get bashed by the members!

Fakebook is here to stay and the viability of Optiboard is more the ? (question) of the future.

Facebook is a social website and good or bad for anybody, who wants to be good or bad, whatever you choose.

I agree it is here to stay. as well as the pocket telephones people walk around with in their hands, or drive their cars while texting.

Optiboard is a public forum, restricted to optical professionals and has the highest ranking of any such sites on the web.
There is always a sizable attendance of just lookers that do not or can not participate. It will be around as long the owner is willing to operate it.

**John@OWDC** · 09-13-2016, 07:05 AM

Lenny,

Jody knows that and this is not really about the machine it is about possibilities.

No, the technology is far from perfect but give it a few years and it will get there.

I'm sure Warby Parker and others are trying to figure it out!

As to the other comments here they are not worth wasting time replying to...

**Jason H** · 09-13-2016, 07:48 AM

Life moves forward, not back. People correct their vision at the dollar store. But I can't imagine a subjective exam would be so unimportant to a final refraction. If you're a +.50 sphere mabye it dosen't matter. Most of what I deal with is far more complex. Still, I'll reserve my judgement to when it either works or doesn't.

**MrOptician** · 09-13-2016, 08:39 AM

Hello,

Refraction is a refraction and an exam is an exam.

I support making refraction available to opticians.

we shouldn't stay on 1 spot, we need to look forward.

Huge Thanks to Jody.

**Uncle Fester** · 09-13-2016, 08:51 AM

Highly trained certified refracting optician? Yes

Machine generated "valid" prescription? No

(You can like this if you want;)

**tigerlilly** · 09-13-2016, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Fester

Highly trained certified refracting optician? Yes

Machine generated "valid" prescription? No

(You can like this if you want;)

I would have liked this without the invitation! This is my take too.

Machine generated refraction alone is just another way to take a competent, trained human out of the process and go totally online for purchases, or encourage low quality mall kiosks. If someone wants to skip a health exam I think they're foolish, but okay. They at least need a trained optician to fine tune the Rx. At the very least, it will help avoid remakes.

**braheem24** · 09-13-2016, 01:27 PM

The only post I saw there that was crucified was the "Meet your new eye Doctor" - It deserved to be crucified, it was bad marketing.

What is being done is 10 years old in BC canada, if anyone wants to argue the model I suggest Jody refer them to look at the British Columbia Model in action. No need for what ifs.

**CNG** · 09-13-2016, 01:47 PM

ODs will shoot themselves in the foot one more time by not embracing technology.

CNG

**pknsbeans** · 09-13-2016, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by CNG

ODs will shoot themselves in the foot one more time by not embracing technology.

CNG

ODs wouldn't like to have the technology that would lessen time spent refracting???

**RIMLESS** · 09-13-2016, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by MrOptician

Hello,

Refraction is a refraction and an exam is an exam.

I support making refraction available to opticians.

we shouldn't stay on 1 spot, we need to look forward.

Huge Thanks to Jody.

No Problems here but to quote Mr. Spock:
After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.

**braheem24** · 09-13-2016, 10:24 PM

I had a long dinner with a Neuro Ophthalmologist who is also a chief of Neuro ophthalmology at a teaching hospital. I was advising him not to give patients new prescriptions for patients referred to him by an OD as most patients would perceive an insignificant change in rx as a reason to return glasses to OD office for a remake.

His quandary: He can't do a real exam without knowing the patient's BCVA.

Most Doctors don't see exams and refractions as separate issues because they're looking at issues beyond the scope of Opticianry. It's not always about greed.

**drk** · 09-13-2016, 11:12 PM

If you guys knew how far off you were, you'd laugh at yourselves.

Refract away. Refract away.

Enjoy the "garbage out".

**Chris Ryser** · 09-14-2016, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by drk

If you guys knew how far off you were, you'd laugh at yourselves.

Refract away. Refract away.

Enjoy the "garbage out".

drk is right ........................

However I believe it can not be stopped as it is an other technical advance without human and learned interface. It is the "why" and what to do about it.

It will be picked up by the on-liners when something good and simple to use comes up, to advance their cause.

The only way out, is to drop the selling retail prices and charge for services as rendered, per experience level and as remuneration.

This way the on-liners will even refer their problem cases to a good optician.

**Quince** · 09-14-2016, 10:34 AM

My company is one of very few to do duplications as well as fill expired RXs in my area. Because of this, we have many people who are going on 10 years+ with the same Rx. Everytime I work with someone who wants to do this, I simply remind them that even if their Rx hasn't changed, seeing the optometrist is a health exam and much can be caught through inspecting one's eyes. Most of the time, this does not faze them. The general public is under-concerned with their health for reasons that are not worth delving into on this thread.

**tigerlilly** · 09-14-2016, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by braheem24

I had a long dinner with a Neuro Ophthalmologist who is also a chief of Neuro ophthalmology at a teaching hospital. I was advising him not to give patients new prescriptions for patients referred to him by an OD as most patients would perceive an insignificant change in rx as a reason to return glasses to OD office for a remake.

His quandary: He can't do a real exam without knowing the patient's BCVA.

Most Doctors don't see exams and refractions as separate issues because they're looking at issues beyond the scope of Opticianry. It's not always about greed.

Off topic, so I apologize: why is there such a dearth of neuro ophthalmologists? I live in a major city that has a major university research hospital, and we don't have one. The only thing we offer is a retired NO who comes in once a month as a favor to the department. I had an 8am appointment with her, wasn't taken back until after 1pm, had the same regular eye exam with a resident that I'd already had with my OD and a retinal specialist, repeated previous visual fields with a tech, and then a five minute talk with the NO, whe never even touched me beyond shaking my hand. With that level of care, there's no point of even bothering to pretend to offer that service. It's mind boggling to me that a brand new, multi million dollar major university facility doesn't have a single neuro ophthalmologist. Am I being unreasonable?

**Lelarep** · 09-14-2016, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by tigerlilly

Off topic, so I apologize: why is there such a dearth of neuro ophthalmologists? I live in a major city that has a major university research hospital, and we don't have one. The only thing we offer is a retired NO who comes in once a month as a favor to the department. I had an 8am appointment with her, wasn't taken back until after 1pm, had the same regular eye exam with a resident that I'd already had with my OD and a retinal specialist, repeated previous visual fields with a tech, and then a five minute talk with the NO, whe never even touched me beyond shaking my hand. With that level of care, there's no point of even bothering to pretend to offer that service. It's mind boggling to me that a brand new, multi million dollar major university facility doesn't have a single neuro ophthalmologist. Am I being unreasonable?

I know how you feel. When I needed one, I literally had to travel 200 miles, across the state, to a nationally known research university, with a medical school, to find a neuro-optho (but at least he was really, really good).

**braheem24** · 09-14-2016, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by tigerlilly

Off topic, so I apologize: why is there such a dearth of neuro ophthalmologists? I live in a major city that has a major university research hospital, and we don't have one. The only thing we offer is a retired NO who comes in once a month as a favor to the department. I had an 8am appointment with her, wasn't taken back until after 1pm, had the same regular eye exam with a resident that I'd already had with my OD and a retinal specialist, repeated previous visual fields with a tech, and then a five minute talk with the NO, whe never even touched me beyond shaking my hand. With that level of care, there's no point of even bothering to pretend to offer that service. It's mind boggling to me that a brand new, multi million dollar major university facility doesn't have a single neuro ophthalmologist. Am I being unreasonable?

This neuro is now part time at the teaching hospital/school and part time at his practice. Between Orlando and Atlanta there are 3 Neuro OMDs, This one is worth the travel and often comments for the past few decades complicated cases are escalated to him he's not used to doing routine exams, The niceties of a routine exam still dont click with him as he often ends the exam with "Thats it? Nothing Else?"

**John@OWDC** · 09-15-2016, 07:48 AM

You guys are amazing!

drk basically says, "You are all idiots, and only I know the truth."
And not only do you not take issue with that; one of you actually agrees with him!

Chances are excellent that within the next ten years some company will create a reliable self-refraction app.

These tools are already being developed and some have already chosen to start using them.

You have a choice: Embrace them and become the independent optician or watch customers walk out the door and across the street to shop where they offer it until you go out of business.

The fact that the perception is that a full medical exam and refraction are one and the same is not the same thing as reality.
The fact that the ODs have done a totally lousy job of educating their patients is not our problem.

Is it for everyone? NO OF COURSE NOT
Is billing self-refraction as an exam wrong? YES, YES and F-YES IT IS WRONG WRONG WRONG
Is this stuff 100% ready and accurate? NO (but it will probably be within a few years)
Is it a great idea? NOT OURS TO DECIDE
Is it happening? YES (Jody is doing it)
Is there a chance that this will lead to an increase in eye related health issues and diseases? IT COULD

Of course I can legally buy a gun and smoke cigarettes and drink heavily while cleaning it... good idea?
Probably not, but should I be able to choose to do a self-refraction test and get a new pair of glasses made?
Hmmmmmm?

And one last thought for you - Where is the drama and passion for all the non-glasses wearing public about the importance of a medical eye exam?
Are the ODs going for legislation where we all must get a mandatory eye exam every year?
Yeah, it is all about health not money... yeah, right.