Every one's opinion on this..I mean EVERY ONE

**Jeff Trail** · 02-10-2003, 10:34 AM

So now I'm thinking of doing another lab

and do the stuff no one else wants to do..glass, slabs, hard stuff (prism/
drill jobs/dive masks etc., etc.) and getting a Varilux Lic. as well..
Picking up things like healthcare contracts etc., etc.
So I guess the question is on average do most of you guys use multiple labs? .. Do you send certian things out to certian labs?
Just tossing an idea out there and see how much it was worth in doing everything everyone else "hates" to do..
Since I'm looking for some big volume I don't think anyone would be beating the price range for the run of the mill stuff..Varilux/Essilor PAL's Tri's etc., So since no one (Jo, Steve all the rest) likes us to post prices I wouldn't mind getting a general idea from a wide selection (geographical) the prices being paid now for those things(EM if ya want or PM)...I for one am wanting to start a lab that actually can work WITH retail where everyone can make a decent living and save some..
Since no one feels like giving me a job, maybe I can put a dent in them :) ..I know a number of labs that I can pick up the complicated stuff from as a third party, just want to know how it looks for the rest of you..

Jeff "here I go again" Trail

**harry888** · 02-10-2003, 12:17 PM

With the exception of VSP and Medicaid, all my labwork goes to one lab. Did two once, too much paperwork and confusion.

As for the overly complicated jobs, I just tell the patient our lab can't do it tell them to go to the local chain in the mall. The complicated ones end up being redos anyway and the patients usually are unaware of the difficulty or defensive.

The lab I stuck with has it's own delivery driver.

Harry

**Traci** · 02-10-2003, 01:23 PM

I think you have a good idea - creating a specialty niche - I wish you Good Luck!

Yes, I use multiple labs based on the job to be done. I prefer to work with the lab directly than with a lab who is sourcing my job on to someone else. The price is always much higher for me when that is done! Ugh! I would prefer to pay you directly and save time (from shipping to a second lab) as well!

Traci

P.S. I will PM you the price I pay for Varilux.

**Joann Raytar** · 02-10-2003, 01:45 PM

We use one lab for almost all of our surfacing as well as stock PSR and most stock 1.67 index. We use another lab for Zeiss and another for Hoya progressives but this is rare. We get our stock poly from another distributor but we are trying to reduce this relationship as far as ophthalmic lenses are concerned.

**BobV** · 02-10-2003, 02:25 PM

Jeff, we currently use two labs, one primarily for VSP. It seems both labs may be farming out glass lenses.

Bob V.

**Jeff Trail** · 02-10-2003, 03:41 PM

Bob,

I know about a zillion lab owners (who would figure:)) and most are
farming the glass, especially when poly carb took off, it is rough mixing glass production and poly unless you added a lot of space or moved into a designed lab that takes it into account..I was doing glass and stopped a couple years back and all the guys I know liked to have a cow..
So I figure since I'm "unemployable"

I'll just relocate and do it all over again.. I didn't mind doing glass and if that and the harder stuff (slabs and such) will keep me busy I'll be happy.. be smaller and have less headaches..
I was hoping enough people put some information into the basket I could go into this saving everyone some money as well.. The subbing in glass and slabs and drills would keep me real busy but might as well give the best deals I could for everything else.. :)
Right now I'm just poking around to see if I do want to make this mess all over again, building a lab and stores twice before it does involve a lot of time..this time I think I would like to keep it smaller and go for very high quality, make a decent living and actually work less than 80 hours a week like I have for the last 13 years

I still would like any information if anyone feels like passing it along, if I'm going to go back into it might as well try to make it a "plus" for my fellow optiboarders in the high end stuff :)
BTW VSP in Florida is seperate from the "national" VSP and it comes up for bid same as the others..Humana as well..we here in FL. do it the weird way I guess :-)

Jeff "gee it would have been much easier to go corp." Trail

**John R** · 02-10-2003, 04:36 PM

If you are thinking of setting up again

It's the market to go for. Its no good now trying to pull in all the easy stuff as you arnt going to make a living unless you can work 168 hours a week...Lets face it who wants to do that....
Go for the stuff no one else wants to do, but do it at a fair price as you say..Everybody knows that this stuff aint going to be cheap but still balk at paying fair prices...
I think the hardest part will be persuading the retail that your prices are fair, rather than picking up the work.

**Robert Martellaro** · 02-10-2003, 05:11 PM

Jeff,

The way it's going now, if you live long enough you'll have the "specials" market cornered.

I use four labs, all cut and edge. 70% to a small lab in town, 25% to a medium size employee owned multiple location lab, and the rest to the big labs. The small lab farms out the slabs to Epic. What does "em" and "pm" stand for?

Robert

**Jeff Trail** · 02-10-2003, 05:18 PM

John,

It actually is not going to even be a problem developing the accounts, since I have a ready market of other labs who would (and have been begging) for someone to take up the slack in glass production, doing the time consuming stuff like slabs and drills..
So technically I wouldn't have to deal with "retail" for the vast majority of my work volume I would only deal with other labs..what I was gearing towards is since I was setting up and have a the leads for a Varilux Lic. I could use it to help out people on here if I could get a feel for the price range in the premium stuff..I would have it all set up might as well see if I can pass along the savings to fellow optiboarders...the high end stuff (super high indexes premium PAL's etc.) would be a minority of the stuff with other labs feeding me the majority in the crazy stuff and the glass...Just was interested if anyone else might be interested in it..
Setting up a lab? THAT I know about, dealing in wholesale (delivery and such) arrgg that I know about.. I was just thinking if enough people showed an interest I might work something out to help THEM..

When I first got into this mess (lab work) glass was the majority and the other was an "upstart" ..now that it's full circle and glass is the "upstart pain in the ***" or I guess more like "the redheaded step child" no one wants :-)..I know the volume is there, just wanted to see if adding the other was worth while, what's a 50 or so uncuts in Varilux, premium high indexes 1.67/ 1.71 and such going to do for me a day, especially at a LOW price..I was just poking to see if I could help out all of these guys.. my other stuff would be the bread and butter and have to deal with only other wholesalers (mostly) ..would even be half tempted to having in-house AR coater leased if the volume was there..I've been "small", been "big" (and complicated) I think just being a high quality middle of the road is where I would like to be now, and possibly help out a lot of people here as well..in certian area's. If no one is interested in the "other" stuff, that is fine with me..I already know the bread and butter stuff is there if I do jump back in.
Just thought I would see if anyone else was interested in me pushing the high end stuff at a lower cost :) ..I'll take my Tonka toys, well "glass toys" and play in my own sand box if no one else wants to "play" :)

Jeff "gee and I thought I was doing them a favor" Trail

**Jeff Trail** · 02-10-2003, 05:53 PM

Robert Martellaro said:
Jeff,

The way it's going now, if you live long enough you'll have the "specials" market cornered.

Don't want even a "corner", just enough to keep me happy and not over worked..which seems to be already a problem with the calls I have been getting from other lab owners I know who want to know "when" I was opening this "special" lab..arrggg

I use four labs, all cut and edge. 70% to a small lab in town, 25% to a medium size employee owned multiple location lab, and the rest to the big labs. The small lab farms out the slabs to Epic. What does "em" and "pm" stand for?

Robert

I was not interested nor am interested in what the local guys snap up, as a "local" lab I know it is not worth while to get peoples SV and BF and even PAL's on the low end scale.. not enough money in it considering all the costs..shipping and employee problems vs. volume. Mostly now in "wholesale" this stuff is a lost leader anyway..we only make money on the premium stuff (mid range & premium PAL's, Transitions,Polarized etc., etc.)
I was interested in the crazy stuff and being a "farm" lab for glass and slabs and drills, crazy RX stuff.. just wanted to get a feel for the higher indexes and Varilux and such to see if adding it was worth while for saving people HERE some money.. the hard stuff was going to be my money producer. (profit wise)
BTW EM (E-mail) PM (private message) ..both can be sent through the board :)

Jeff "was just an 'idea' I was talked into looking into" Trail

**paw** · 02-10-2003, 07:57 PM

We use one lab for everything. With the exception that one major employer requires us to use a particular lab for their safety glasses. Another very small employer requires us to use yet another lab for their safetys.

We have a great relationship with the main lab, but they do farm out glass and I think mirror coating. But we don't do a whole lot of either.

**LENNY** · 02-10-2003, 08:49 PM

We use 2 Labs.
One for dirty cheap standart range FT-28.
And the other for everything else.

I KNOW you dont want to know the prices we pay:bbg: !!!

**Johns** · 02-10-2003, 10:46 PM

Jeff

We use one lab for FT28s & surfaced SV uncuts, one lab for stock Sv, and another lab for Varilux. We pay about $8 more than the real cheap Fla. lab (the one w/ 4 different names), but they give us a 365 unconditional warranty that we try not to take advantage of.
They keep our business by not asking any questions, and we send them every VLX we get.

**hip chic** · 02-11-2003, 11:36 AM

I use two labs. One of my labs does 80% of my work. The other 20% is specialty stuff...rimless...custom lens shapes...stones in lenses etc. I pay a premium price for the second lab mentioned and would expect to, of course.
I was confused when I read your message...sounds like you want to do the lens work no one else wants to do but, then you also mention high volume and low prices...it seems to me that these are two different paths....aren't they?
Do you think you can make a living at your lab just doing that "tough stuff" that no one else wants to do. I mean, not doing any of the "normal grind...day to day stuff" that other labs do? I think you can...charge top dollar and get your name out there to shops as well as labs... With your low volume/top price lab, you'll have the challenge that you're looking for, the pleasure of doing a job...a good job at something no one else wants to do... and of course, you won't have to work over 100 hours a week, right?

hip chic

**Jeff Trail** · 02-11-2003, 03:04 PM

Hip Chic,

The farming out of glass and the slabs and complicated stuff would be the bread and butter... just wanted to see if I went with adding a premium line of PAL's as more a "opti-board" buyers group discounted thing :) would be worth while...
Doing 50 to 75 jobs a day in premium is not really "big volume at low prices" and that is probably the magic number I would look for to make it a self supporting sector in the lab..Just wanted to get a "feel" for how much every one was paying and see if I could help out.
Being in the wholesale market, what I consider "big volume" and you might is probably far different.. to me big volume is the 1,000 pair a day or better...a 100 or so of the tough stuff and glass is about low end to the beginning of medium in actual "volume":) But it would be a fairly good number for the time intensive stuff keeping the quality way up and breakage way down

More or less the volume in glass would be 50 to 75 pair a day, 15 or so drill jobs and 5 to 10 slabs..well that's the numbers I wouldn't mind keeping it at..You could really pick up that kind of volume just by getting fed work from other wholesale labs I know.. I wasn't planning on making it "public" as much as just seeing if any one from here wanted to get stuff added .. I've worked around all these volumes (small to big) and as you get "bigger" you spend more time at a desk and computer and on the phone and dealing with paper problems than actually tinkering in the lab..Me? I like and prefer to tinker still, guess instead of a blood type the hospital could just check the baume! :) Even my wife says I always seem happier swinging a generator or using an edger than complaining about inventory and backorders, lost orders and on and on..

Jeff "cut me, do I not bleed resin" Trail

**jennifers** · 02-21-2003, 05:11 PM

Well, I use HOYA and HOYA only. Not only has it increased my bottom line 40%, but my flat top to PAL conversion success rate is 75% with the Summit ECP. I used Varilux for over 20 years and at this point, I will never look back. HOYA has saved my practice!!!

**Lee Prewitt** · 02-24-2003, 01:18 PM

Jeff,

I am sure you have already thought of this but talk with Epic. They are a specialty lab and can give you more insight to your already vast knowledge. Sounds like you already have enough committment to open the farm lab from your contacts. As for a premium lab side, don't underestimate the value of high quality work. We have a local lab that has a rep for this type. They are small but don't want to grow to much. No one does a better drilled job though than they do.

West coast prices are always more than back East and especially FL. When and if you get the premium side up...

**Leo Hadley Jr** · 03-03-2003, 09:27 AM

[QUOTE]Johns said:
Jeff

We pay about $8 more than the real cheap Fla. lab (the one w/ 4 different names),

hahaha:D

this is off the subject but its a funny story, i moved to florida in 1995 and the day i arrived i opened a phonebook looking for a job. the first three calls i made to different companys the same woman answered the phone!

i wonder if its the same company you mentioned

**Jeff Trail** · 03-03-2003, 09:42 AM

OLR,

Yep one and the same, besides those three you called I think it's three or four more as well...AND a chain of stores. You probably seen the ads, the one with the big "NoBull" logo type thing...that is the same outfit.
They have been, over the last few years, consulidating and moving the labs closer together though and found out that that chain is tough to make it make money and have been cutting them back as well..
I know a BUNCH of people across the U.S and Florida seems to be about the most whackiest place I have ever seen in optics..we have a meeting once in awhile at Essilor, the lab group I belong to, and after the meetings, we all got on a bus for a tour of Transitions America and on the way over everyone starting talking about prices and when I was asked about FL. and started talking about some of the prices coming out of Miami in uncuts all these guys just about had a heart attack!! :) ... They used to cringe and tell me after seeing my price list that they hoped I never started running ads up the east coast..they really went crazy when I told them I was actually mid to high priced for this state!!

Jeff "Florida optics as a whole new world" Trail

**Leo Hadley Jr** · 03-03-2003, 10:13 AM

jeff,

no bull,
i did some time there years back.....its like optical bootcamp:shiner:

**JandJOPT** · 03-04-2003, 11:59 AM

Jeff Trail

Sounds to me like your asking for more of
a headache than anything. If you plan on keeping the prices
reasonable there can't be too much mark up, and the people
who wear all that specality suff are usually a pain in the rear
to begin with, so there will always be one or two doctor
changes. I'd stick with the basics make some money on the
job, and do those specality jobs only when needed.

Just my opinion.:bbg: