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Thread: Sunshine Laws are effecting optical industry? Any news.

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    Confused Sunshine Laws are effecting optical industry? Any news.

    I heard from an industry expert yesterday about an investigation into the paying of doctors to sell a product? This sounds like the way it has been since the progressive came out and has expanded since.

    It may appear that a lens company buying a 4,500 doctor group is a conflict of interest for the patients and now it begins.

    Any updates from folks effected by the lack of spiffs now on-hold?

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    Doh! braheem24's Avatar
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    I know Stark and anti-kick back, Who is Sunshine?

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    Blue Jumper The more money doctors receive from drug and medical device companies ...............

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post

    I heard from an industry expert yesterday about an investigation into the paying of doctors to sell a product? This sounds like the way it has been since the progressive came out and has expanded since.

    It may appear that a lens company buying a 4,500 doctor group is a conflict of interest for the patients and now it begins.

    Any updates from folks effected by the lack of spiffs now on-hold?



    Craig...........optometrists are not and have never been medical doctors.

    Optometry is a healthcare profession concerned with the eyes and related structures, as well as vision, visual systems, and vision information processing in humans. Optometrists (also known as ophthalmic opticians) are trained to prescribe and fit lenses to improve vision, and in some countries are trained to diagnose and treat various eye diseases.

    a good description and history at: =============>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optometry


    Here is what happens:

    Dollars for Doctors
    How Industry Money Reaches Physicians


    Now There’s Proof: Docs Who Get Company Cash Tend to Prescribe More Brand-Name Meds


    The more money doctors receive from drug and medical device companies, the more brand-name drugs they tend to prescribe, a new ProPublica analysis shows. Even a meal can make a difference.

    by Charles Ornstein, Ryann Grochowski Jones and Mike Tigas, ProPublica, March 17, 2016, 5 a.m.


    see at: ==========>

    https://www.propublica.org/article/doctors-who-take-company-cash-tend-to-prescribe-more-brand-name-drugs

    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    I heard from an industry expert yesterday about an investigation into the paying of doctors to sell a product? This sounds like the way it has been since the progressive came out and has expanded since.

    It may appear that a lens company buying a 4,500 doctor group is a conflict of interest for the patients and now it begins.

    Any updates from folks effected by the lack of spiffs now on-hold?
    Really, what's the difference between this and an insurance company that owns labs, a lens division/company, and frame companies that provide financial incentives to doctors to sell both lenses and frames to patients/members.
    For that matter what's the difference for offering specific contacts or lenses to patients if you are receiving spiffs from these companies. Restaurants do this all the time. Auto companies provide incentives. I offer incentives to patients and clients who buy multiple pairs, give referrals, and etc.
    Last edited by Paul Smith LDO; 06-22-2016 at 12:31 PM.
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    Doh! braheem24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith LDO View Post
    Really, what's the difference between this and an insurance company that owns labs, a lens division/company, and frame companies that provide financial incentives to doctors to sell both lenses and frames to patients/members.
    For that matter what's the difference for offering specific contacts or lenses to patients if you are receiving spiffs from these companies. Restaurants do this all the time. Auto companies provide incentives. I offer incentives to patients and clients who buy multiple pairs, give referrals, and etc.
    A Prescription for something based on a kick back is not comparable to a restaurant or an oil change voucher.

    With great power comes great responsibility Spiderman.

    None of the mentioned above can write a prescription for a specific item, they only recommend and therefore not held to the same expectations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by braheem24 View Post
    A Prescription for something based on a kick back is not comparable to a restaurant or an oil change voucher.

    With great power comes great responsibility Spiderman.

    None of the mentioned above can write a prescription for a specific item, they only recommend and therefore not held to the same expectations.
    That's all that a Doc can do, recommend. Spiderman, this coming from a cat who wears a mask and pj's.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

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    The Sunshine Act requires transparency when any medical equipment manufacturer gives money or items of value to any medical provider. This has been increasingly an issue with the sudden increase in Visa Gift Card hand outs from labs. The issue is that many of these jobs that qualify for Rewards, Points or Visa Gift cards are from partially Federally funded patients, ie, Medicare, ACA, etc. and the lens manufacturers never provided a way for providers to opt out or identify these patients. So the "Reward" will probably qualify as a kick-back that must be reported. A 1099 form is not adequate reporting.

    Essilor and Hoya have suspended their rewards programs this week. VSP is "recalling" their Otis brand childrens frames that they gave to practices as speak. Shamir's rewards are still functioning as of yesterday, but I expect the lawyers to put a stop to all of it soon. VSP will face the biggest issue, the total of "Rewards" for a Premier practice can reach $70 per pair combined. That is a lot of money. Of course the other rewards programs have crept up to keep in competition.

    This is the biggest legal news since the Americal Optical / Bausch and Laum co-fixing of prices in the 1970s.

    Look for wholesale change and huge fines coming to an large optical lab near you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith LDO View Post
    Really, what's the difference between this and an insurance company that owns labs, a lens division/company, and frame companies that provide financial incentives to doctors to sell both lenses and frames to patients/members.
    For that matter what's the difference for offering specific contacts or lenses to patients if you are receiving spiffs from these companies. Restaurants do this all the time. Auto companies provide incentives. I offer incentives to patients and clients who buy multiple pairs, give referrals, and etc.
    This is being investigated as well...
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy ~Benjamin Franklin

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Sharpie, sharp as always.

    Any links, bro?

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    This is a game-changer for the big companies that paid folks to sell their products!

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    The Sunshine Act requires transparency when any medical equipment manufacturer gives money or items of value to any medical provider. This has been increasingly an issue with the sudden increase in Visa Gift Card hand outs from labs. The issue is that many of these jobs that qualify for Rewards, Points or Visa Gift cards are from partially Federally funded patients, ie, Medicare, ACA, etc. and the lens manufacturers never provided a way for providers to opt out or identify these patients. So the "Reward" will probably qualify as a kick-back that must be reported. A 1099 form is not adequate reporting.

    Essilor and Hoya have suspended their rewards programs this week. VSP is "recalling" their Otis brand childrens frames that they gave to practices as speak. Shamir's rewards are still functioning as of yesterday, but I expect the lawyers to put a stop to all of it soon. VSP will face the biggest issue, the total of "Rewards" for a Premier practice can reach $70 per pair combined. That is a lot of money. Of course the other rewards programs have crept up to keep in competition.

    This is the biggest legal news since the Americal Optical / Bausch and Laum co-fixing of prices in the 1970s.

    Look for wholesale change and huge fines coming to an large optical lab near you.


    Its the
    Waiting to see how long it take to sort out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Sharpie, sharp as always.

    Any links, bro?
    No, there won't be any statements because no legal department wants to play their hand at this time. Both Essilor and Hoya have suspended their Rewards program quietly. VSP sent out a notice to recall Otis kids frames, but didn't say why. Frantic meetings at both companies regarding. But you won't hear a statement for some time until the lawyers have their checks in hand.
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy ~Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    No, there won't be any statements because no legal department wants to play their hand at this time. Both Essilor and Hoya have suspended their Rewards program quietly. VSP sent out a notice to recall Otis kids frames, but didn't say why. Frantic meetings at both companies regarding. But you won't hear a statement for some time until the lawyers have their checks in hand.
    Are you saying that my S&H green stamps will no longer be accepted at my local Piggly Wiggly. My PMD said that groceries consumed on a daily basis are essential for continuation of, Paul Smith and he has been recommending Piggly Wiggly.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Waiting to see how long it take to sort out?
    Don't hold your breath, with deep pockets come greater power. The lobbyists for the insurance companies should make it interesting. Such practices have been in place and subsisting under current conditions, demonstrating precedence. Leaving perhaps some room for modifications but the question remains; how much.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    No, there won't be any statements because no legal department wants to play their hand at this time. Both Essilor and Hoya have suspended their Rewards program quietly. VSP sent out a notice to recall Otis kids frames, but didn't say why. Frantic meetings at both companies regarding. But you won't hear a statement for some time until the lawyers have their checks in hand.
    do you have that notice still? I would like to see it if possible.

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    Blue Jumper

    Posted in other thread



    A STATEMENT FROM ESSILOR OF AMERICA REGARDING PROMOTIONAL ACTIVITIES

    July 21, 2016
    DALLAS – July 21, 2016 – The federal government has expressed an interest in certain promotional activity occurring in the lens industry and has requested information concerning several of Essilor of America’s promotions. We are providing the requested information and intend to address whatever concerns the government may have. We are also taking this opportunity to proactively review all of our promotional programs. We believe that our proactive approach is in the best interests of our company and our customers.
    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    I'm surprised luxottica isn't in the mix somewhere, i'm sure they will be. These big guys always hit a wall none of us could see coming. Not that we didn't see what they're doing, but we didn't think anyone would ever notice. Hey big guys! Guess what! IF we all liked you we'd defend you and probably bail you out. But we don't. Essilor, if you didn't buy out all the labs we liked just to shut them down and sell via Coastal, we might like you. Luxottica, IF you would've never bought Lenscrafters et cetera, we might like you still. VSP, IF you would have kept to the "insurance" business, and not gobbled up Marchon and gone to sell online, we might like you. But we don't. You might be able to burn a candle at both ends but you can not throw a bonfire at every corner of our world.
    Last edited by VisionAiry; 07-23-2016 at 07:16 PM.
    Fourteen of my family members (including: aunts, uncles, cousins, parents, grandparents...and a great uncle) are, or have been in optical and...that's just crazytown at Christmas

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    I think you'd got the definitions wrong, Chris.

    Ophthalmc Optician grinds lenses/makes eyeglasses and other visual appliances.

    Opticians (Precision) grind lenses, mirrors and make fixtures for precision optics, like telescopes, binoculars, microscopes, etc.

    B

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    Redhot Jumper You are right Barry.............

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post

    I think you'd got the definitions wrong, Chris.

    Ophthalmc Optician grinds lenses/makes eyeglasses and other visual appliances.

    Opticians (Precision) grind lenses, mirrors and make fixtures for precision optics, like telescopes, binoculars, microscopes, etc.

    B

    You are right Barry.............with my Swiss background I learned that the "instrument optician" worked on instruments as you said, and the equivalent to the ophthalmic optician was plain and simple just an optician.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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