Strange world we live in..

[John R]

Since the shuttle tragedy all americam space flights are canceled due to 7 lives lost in the line of duty.....
Fair some might say, but they all knew they were laying their lives on the line by doing what they did....
Yet the politicians are ready to send countless thousands of men and women to possible death in a war with iraq over something that has yet to be proved...
Using the same logic as nasa. We should not be sending anybody to fight till we can make sure there will be NO loss of life.

[chip anderson]

John:

We had a discussion in our Sunday School class this Sunday on this subject, some folks were like you and others could be summed up like the survivors of the recent Canadian Ski/Avalance. When they were asked why do you go to these virgin areas where the ski patrol hasn't checke for safety? They replied: "The rush is worth the risk."

Remember how many ships were lost finding the "New World." There are those of us crazy enough where we want to ride motocycles and not be told we have to wear a helmet. Drive a car without a seat belt, and swim in the deep water.

It's all right to be someone who wants everyting safe, but don't try to tell the rest of us we should be so shy.

Chip

[Cindy Hamlin]

John,
You are talking about 2 different things entirely! Space exploration is a risk. I was watching "Meet the Press" Sunday and they had a man who is now a senator from Florida that was on the shuttle mission after the Challenger blew up. He made a point that I won't forget. Tim Russert asked him what they did inside the spaceship when something catastrophic was going wrong and he said "We curl up in a fetal poisition and make it right with our maker because we are not going to survive!" I was stunned by this statement, then he went on to say that "we are strapped to explosives and massive amounts so we are not going to survive."

I think that space travel is a risk and all of the Columbia crew was aware of the risk. I have heard all of the families say that they knew the risk going in.

War is different, it is fighting for a cause. For betterment. It is known that going in there will be loss of life and soldiers are aware of that, but we must to preserve the life we live and love.

Space travel is exploration and war is a cause so you have to consider them seperate and not together. We don't have to fly to the moon, etc. We must fight for wrongs that are made.

Let's face it we know that Saddam is sandbagging us and that he is up to no good. He has just been crafty enough to keep it away from the inspectors thus far.


I hope this made sense!

[John R]

chip anderson said:
It's all right to be someone who wants everyting safe, but don't try to tell the rest of us we should be so shy.

Chip

Hey not trying to tell anyone... what to do... If you want to jump off that cliff for a rush then go ahead...Unless thats MY car you are going to land on....

War is different, it is fighting for a cause. For betterment

So what cause and betterment is this war for ???

Believe me i'm not anti-war. I just cant see the sense in this one at this time....If they had finished it off first time when there was good cause then OK but sorry now it seems to me the Mr Bush is looking for something to do after 9-11 and Sadam is playing right into his hands.....
If Sadam had wanted to do anything I'm sure we would have known about it by now.....Even Bin Laden cant stand the Sadam for what he has done to muslims......

[Cindy Hamlin]

John R said:
So what cause and betterment is this war for ???

Ask the Iraqui people that question John. They are dying everyday from treatable illnesses because they have been embargoed because of a knucklehead named Saddam. Ask the neighboring smaller middle eastern countries if they will feel better when the threat of nuclear war is out of their backyard. Ask the entire European world if it will be better for them.

And, John, won't you feel better knowing that the missles he has that can reach Britian are gone? That you can sleep freely without fearing a biological or nuclear attack. We are going to fight the war, but at the present time none of his missles have the capability to reach the US. I understand though he is working on it.

I am glad our current George Bush has the cahonies to finish the war with Saddam. His daddy never had the resolve. I think 9-11 woke us all up!

[EyeManFla]

I don't know, Cindy. I don't really blame Daddy Bush for what happened at the end of the Gulf War. I was working with the Republican Party in DC then. A different war, a different mandate and very different politics.

Remember, Hitler could have been stopped prior to 1938. But the dominant power at the time chose to appease him and declare "Peace in our Times".......and that that country went from global superpower to almost third world status by 1945 for it's short sightedness.

If you want to sit back and wait a couple of years till Saddam lobs a nuke at Isreal or Saudi Arabia (although that may not be a bad thing) or sneek on into downtown DC(Ok, that might not be a bad thing either), be my guest.

True, some of W's decisions have been a little,well, off lately, (Oh, Mr. Mandella, the next time you want to accuse the United States of committing attrocities please remember, without US pressure, you would be nothing more than a distant memory today)but for the most part,I agree with his principles.

[Bev Heishman]

I believe we should give a little more time for Saddam to come clean. A few more months or 60 days with open access to everyone and his accountibility as to where the stock piles are. If he refuses to agree then we begin but we need to have every one onboard such as Germany and France.

I recently reviewed one of my daughters political science books which really took a close look at the after effects of World War I and what led to Hitler's rise in the 30's and Japanese agression. One large factor was the reparations that each of the countries owed. If I remember correctly Churchill's sites this in a letter to Roosevelt in securing allies.

[hcjilson]

Lets see what we've got on Saddam.Wednesday, if the evidence shows he has not cooperated with the UN resolution which has been in effect since the end of desert storm, why then, he and his country should be held accountable.

I suspect the evidence will be clear cut and incontravertable but am willing to wait until then. I must ask those of you who are against this conflict regardless of what the evidence shows....."How long do you wait for him to use weapons of mass destruction?"

This country has had one Pearl Harbor and one 9/11.It will not risk this madman becoming a loose cannon. If we do nothing in the face of this threat then we are negligent.We will not have started this conflict, we will only be responding
to someone who did.

hj

[Night Train]

The exploration of Space represents hope and possibilites. War represents the end of all possibilities. With Saddam, there are no more possibilities. After he is gone, The Iraquis will be free to dream of there own future.

[John R]

Cindy Hamlin said:
And, John, won't you feel better knowing that the missiles he has that can reach Britain are gone? That you can sleep freely without fearing a biological or nuclear attack.

I would feel a lot better if NOBODY had any missles......
What annoys me more than anything is the way America (aka Bush) is banging the war drum, while most of the rest of the world is say hold on....If the United Nations says OK war then fine thats OK, but when one jumped up rich political idiot and his puppet say WAR....No Chance....
People talk of the like of Hitler et al...Maybe in 100 years they will talk of American presidents in the same breath.....

After he is gone, The Iraqis will be free to dream of there own future.

With a little help from uncle sam i've no dob't...
Time and time again we oust one leader and place a so called puppet in power, who in the end turns out to be worse than the pillock ousted.....
Let the Iraqi people decide, if they want him out then let then do it.......and don't bother saying they cant because history has proved over and over that the will of the people will over come ternary

[optispares]

sitting here writing this about 7 miles from the largest US listening post in Europe (and probably the no.1 target )why do we need to go to war ? surely with all the spy satellites and listening devices we can pinpoint sadam and with a few special forces or SAS operatives can remove him permanently.
saves an awful lot of cash.

[hcjilson]

Optispares,
Thats what all this posturing has been about! We're trying our best to muscle Saddam into compliance WITHOUT going to war. If this war actually comes about it will be because of Saddam's refusal to disarm. Period! end of statement

I say that with all due respect of your opinion and with the knowledge that I have a son on active duty in the Marine Corps that I don't want to see in harms way.

I also don't want to see what a few gallons of Sarin (sp) would do to the London underground at Victoria Station at rush hour, or a small dirty nuclear device placed somewhere near the Acropolis, Times Square , Trafalgar or Quebec City etc etc. The line is in the sand. Iraq drew that line as surely as they invaded Kuwait and at about the same time.

This is an excercise in notifying the whole world that certain behaviour will not be tolerated by civilized peoples. I hope war will not be necessary, but we would be remiss to let this madman continue on his present course.

harry J

[John R]

hcjilson said:
I also don't want to see what a few gallons of Sarin (sp) would do to the London underground at Victoria Station at rush hour,

Something that the cleaners cant do for sure......
Mind you there only Londoners so we dont mind do we Jack......:p

[Cindy Hamlin]

optispares said:
sitting here writing this about 7 miles from the largest US listening post in Europe (and probably the no.1 target )why do we need to go to war ? surely with all the spy satellites and listening devices we can pinpoint sadam and with a few special forces or SAS operatives can remove him permanently.
saves an awful lot of cash.

Optispares,
Your thought is a good one, but there are a few hitches in the plan.

Intelligence has told us that Saddam has several body doubles that travel around Iraq to help hide his movements. They also say that he has meals cooked in all of his palaces daily whether he is there or not.

So it may be easier to bomb Iraq than to specifically bomb him!

And....I have a room I can rent you here in the US cheap! Of course, I am a bit down the road from the Defense Supply Center!

[chm2023]

The really troubling part of this is the almost total lack of discussion re: what do we do after Saddam is gone? The notion that a Jeffersonian democracy is going to spontaneously arise from the sands is tragically comic, but this appears to be what Bush thinks is going to happen.

War is always a last resort; if weaponry and irresponsible leaders are a good reason to go to war, North Korea is the top choice, not Iraq. Afraid I have to go with the folks who see this as an inappropriate response to 9/11--remember O b L, and "wanted dead or alive" (what an orator Bush is...). I think the hard truth is that until there is resolution to the Palestinian situation, middle eastern terrorists will abound. Bombing Iraq is easy, coming up with a settlement in that arena is hard. We are an impatient nation, increasingly led by people incapable of understanding and dealing with complex situations. Heard someone from the administration on one of the Sun AM programs, talked about how Bush is a man who sees things in terms of "black and white." As if this is a good thing in the leader of the free world.

[Steve Machol]

chm2023 said:
The really troubling part of this is the almost total lack of discussion re: what do we do after Saddam is gone? The notion that a Jeffersonian democracy is going to spontaneously arise from the sands is tragically comic, but this appears to be what Bush thinks is going to happen.

War is always a last resort; if weaponry and irresponsible leaders are a good reason to go to war, North Korea is the top choice, not Iraq. Afraid I have to go with the folks who see this as an inappropriate response to 9/11--remember O b L, and "wanted dead or alive" (what an orator Bush is...). I think the hard truth is that until there is resolution to the Palestinian situation, middle eastern terrorists will abound. Bombing Iraq is easy, coming up with a settlement in that arena is hard. We are an impatient nation, increasingly led by people incapable of understanding and dealing with complex situations. Heard someone from the administration on one of the Sun AM programs, talked about how Bush is a man who sees things in terms of "black and white." As if this is a good thing in the leader of the free world.

Just wanted to say that this was a very good post, particularly the comments about North Korea. Unfortunately I think the Administration is choosing to go after Iraq (instead of N. Korea) specifically because they are noticeably weaker and will be an 'easier' fight.

[Judy Canty]

...and then there's that "oil" thing....

[Steve Machol]

Judy Canty said:
...and then there's that "oil" thing....

Excellent point!

[Cindy Hamlin]

Got this via e-mail tonight:

Note: Last month, Iraq delivered to the United Nations a 12,000-page report denying it had weapons of mass destruction. Knowing President Bush does not have the attention span to read 12,000 pages, the Iraqis also provided an executive summary written in the style of the president's favorite author, Dr. Seuss.]

I am Saddam.
Saddam I am.

I am the ruler of Iraq,
The country that you would attack.

You are Bush.
Bush you are.
The fame of you has spread afar.

You do not like me, Bush, I know.
You would not like me in a show.
You would not like me in the snow.
You simply wish that I would go.

You say I used to slaughter Kurds.
You say that I use naughty words.

You say I have an evil stash
Of weapons of destruction (mass),
Of bombs and missiles, germs and gas.

You say I tried to kill your Pop.
Oh, how I wish that you would stop!

I promise you I have no stash
Of weapons of destruction (mass).

I do not have them near or far.
I did not hide them in my car.
I did not hide them in a bar.

I did not hide them in a hole.
I did not hide them up a pole.

I did not hide them in a grave.
I did not hide them in a cave.

I did not hide them in a dish.
I did not hide them in a knish.

I did not hide them in my coat.
I did not hide them in a goat.

I did not hide them in a trunk.
I did not hide them in my bunk.

I did not hide them anywhere.
In short, they simply are not there.

The inspectors came and looked,
And looked, and looked, and looked, and looked.

They looked high and they looked low,
Every place that they could go.

They looked in every hole and crack,
Each drawer and closet, bag and sack.

They found nothing in a trunk-or
Even in my private bunker.

They did not find a single stash
Of weapons of destruction (mass) ...
And STILL you won't get off my a**!

I've done all that I can do.
The rest, dear Bush, is up to you.

Please don't be angry, don't be sore.
We don't need to have a war.

Let's go back to the good old days
When your dad and Reagan sang my praise.

I was your faithful ally then.
Why can't we be friends again?

I say, let's let this whole thing drop.
(My best regards to your dear Pop.)