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Thread: Hoya Mystyle Dual Surfacing vs Camber

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    Hoya Mystyle Dual Surfacing vs Camber

    Hoya rep was in today, was discussing the Mystyle and the "dual surfacing" production method. He was making it sound as if the Mystyle's front and back are both surfaced digitally. Made me think of Camber and the variable BC's. Is this technology from Hoya what they say it is, true front digital surfacing? Or is it just a mold with a digital enhancement? Can someone with better understanding of these two products speak to the differences/similarities in these technologies? Thanks.

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    Hoya is very intentionally misleading in how they describe their products, and it is to try and imply they do more than they really do.

    Hoya MyStyle is like a dual surfaced GT23D. It has set design parameters, and then they compensate for Rx. Said another way, they have a set number of preconfigured designs, and simply pick one for you based on your feedback. While the implication of dual surfacing is that you are getting a far more advanced lens product, it is still limited to the preexisting design parameters.

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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    If the Mystyle is available in transitions it can't be front surfaced. That would remove the micro front layer of Transitions.

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    I just ordered my first Camber lenses...anyone else tried it yet? What's your opinion vs traditional digitally surfaced prog?

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    Doh! braheem24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mervinek View Post
    I just ordered my first Camber lenses...anyone else tried it yet? What's your opinion vs traditional digitally surfaced prog?
    Camber is not your typical digital lens, There is trash out there in digital designs, Camber is not one of them.

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    Doh! braheem24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    If the Mystyle is available in transitions it can't be front surfaced. That would remove the micro front layer of Transitions.
    Could it be a camber like mold front?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NVEYEDR View Post
    Hoya rep was in today, was discussing the Mystyle and the "dual surfacing" production method. He was making it sound as if the Mystyle's front and back are both surfaced digitally. Made me think of Camber and the variable BC's. Is this technology from Hoya what they say it is, true front digital surfacing? Or is it just a mold with a digital enhancement? Can someone with better understanding of these two products speak to the differences/similarities in these technologies? Thanks.
    The original iD was surfaced with a free-form generator on both sides in Germany. The latest version might have a couple of the add powers on a semi-finished blank (all semi-finished molds are free-formed surfaced), similar to the Lifestyle, hence the term dual-digitally surfaced. Camber is essentially the same, pulling a semi-finished blank off the shelve as needed, with the back surfaced on a free-form generator. Some of these lenses are highly optimized, others may have very few, if any optimizations.

    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    If the Mystyle is available in transitions it can't be front surfaced. That would remove the micro front layer of Transitions.
    Yup.

    http://www.hoyavision.com/MyStyle

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    Ghost in the OptiMachine OptiBoard Silver Supporter Quince's Avatar
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    Mystyle is available in Transitions or "Suntech" as the DVI lists it. The reps description of the processing has left our office with the impression that the lens is digitally processed on one side, then flipped and run back through digitally for the other side. My notes from training with our rep does list that the ID technology (which includes the Mystyle) has a single front curve and a single back curve, opposed to the Camber which is rounded. The illustrations portray that the Mystyles have a direction in which the curve goes (one side is vertical, the other horizontal) though I can't say how accurate that is.

    What I do know, is that the combination of extra measurements (vertex, panto, faceform) with a compensated script and digital processing is going to make a huge difference and give your patients the best fitted progressive lens, no matter the manufacturer. We usually stick to the Instyle because we don't have the extra fancy measuring set up for Mystyles. We did try the system out... can't remember the name of the head gear unit you need, but we still took our own seg heights. We weren't happy with the ones the unit provided.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Martellaro View Post
    Yup.

    http://www.hoyavision.com/MyStyle

    Welcome back. Fishing again? Hope you caught the limit.
    I wish I was fishing! I was up at the 24/7 farm in Illinois doing chores! But no brain work....Wish I were still up there....

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    The only Camber based lens that I have found to be lackluster (and quite so) has been the VSP PLXPRESSION. Otherwise Camber blank based designs are awesome, including their office designs.

    The mystyle has always sounded an awful lot like the physio enhanced/W3 Fit to me. There is NO way they are dual surfacing if there is transitions, like 24/7 said.

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    The best praise I heard for Camber was one person we put in them that had always worn flat tops prior. He'd tried other PALs and never liked them. With the Camber, however, he found them so easy to wear that he "forgot he wasn't wearing flat tops".
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    Ghost in the OptiMachine OptiBoard Silver Supporter Quince's Avatar
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    Had our Hoya rep in today. She states that the lenses are processed on both sides and the photochromic layer is later added. This is really cool for poly because it would actually work better than your typical poly trans. I haven't had any experience with it yet, but it is called Sensity and it goes on the front of the lens between the lens itself and the hard coat.

    Mystery solved? We shall see...
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quince View Post
    Had our Hoya rep in today. She states that the lenses are processed on both sides and the photochromic layer is later added.
    Custom real-time imbibition or transbonding? That wouldn't be cost effective. I suspect the front curve comes out of a mold, by the hundreds or thousands, and then shipped off to a facility for the photochromic layer, just like every other semi-finished lens made on planet earth.
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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quince View Post
    Had our Hoya rep in today. She states that the lenses are processed on both sides and the photochromic layer is later added. This is really cool for poly because it would actually work better than your typical poly trans. I haven't had any experience with it yet, but it is called Sensity and it goes on the front of the lens between the lens itself and the hard coat.

    Mystery solved? We shall see...
    I say BS. If so, it sure ain't Transitions ( curious why you think it would be *better*?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Martellaro View Post
    Custom real-time imbibition or transbonding? That wouldn't be cost effective. I suspect the front curve comes out of a mold, by the hundreds or thousands, and then shipped off to a facility for the photochromic layer, just like every other semi-finished lens made on planet earth.
    Because of this ^.

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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    As a side note: My E rep told me back when the Ipsio came out it was "duel surfaced" ( what your rep is suggesting). I informed them it couldn't be, because of the reasons Robert and I sited earlier..... He was wrong, later apologized......And continued to say the same incorrect info to his other accounts.


    Did I ever tell you how much I trust some reps? ( there are good ones out there though...I've been told.....)

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    OptiBoard Professional RT's Avatar
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    HOYA iD MyStyle lenses are, in fact dual surfaced front and back. I have seen the production line. The front surface is done first, then the back. If the lens will use HOYA's Sensity photochromic, that is a spin-on coating applied to the front surface of the lens. Photochromic layer is applied after surfacing, and before a thermal cured dip hard coat. HOYA iD MyStyle is not available in Transitions brand photochromic as Transitions can only be applied prior to surfacing.

    Similarly, HOYA iD Instyle is also surfaced front and back, and is also available in Sensity. Both iD Instyle and iD Mystyle use HOYA's Integrated Dual Surface technology which has progressive elements on both front and back.

    HOYA's idLLifestyle family uses the same Integrated Dual Surface design technology. Unlike iD MyStyle and iD Instyle, the Lifestyle family uses blanks with a front molded surface, and then a digitally surfaced complex backside. Camber based designs use a somewhat similar design philosophy, although the details of the pre-molded blank are different. Hoya iD Lifestyle family can use blanks with either Transitions or Sensity photochromic pre-applied.
    RT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Martellaro View Post
    Custom real-time imbibition or transbonding? That wouldn't be cost effective. I suspect the front curve comes out of a mold, by the hundreds or thousands, and then shipped off to a facility for the photochromic layer, just like every other semi-finished lens made on planet earth.
    Suntech technology is simply a front spin coat applied at the lab in Thailand where they are processed. The base curves that come back on these lenses are ridiculously high, usually between 6-8 BC, even at low powers.

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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    So, they are not Transitions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    HOYA iD MyStyle lenses are, in fact dual surfaced front and back. I have seen the production line. The front surface is done first, then the back. If the lens will use HOYA's Sensity photochromic, that is a spin-on coating applied to the front surface of the lens. Photochromic layer is applied after surfacing, and before a thermal cured dip hard coat. HOYA iD MyStyle is not available in Transitions brand photochromic as Transitions can only be applied prior to surfacing.

    Similarly, HOYA iD Instyle is also surfaced front and back, and is also available in Sensity. Both iD Instyle and iD Mystyle use HOYA's Integrated Dual Surface technology which has progressive elements on both front and back.

    HOYA's idLLifestyle family uses the same Integrated Dual Surface design technology. Unlike iD MyStyle and iD Instyle, the Lifestyle family uses blanks with a front molded surface, and then a digitally surfaced complex backside. Camber based designs use a somewhat similar design philosophy, although the details of the pre-molded blank are different. Hoya iD Lifestyle family can use blanks with either Transitions or Sensity photochromic pre-applied.
    There you go, from someone who has all of the facts. Thanks RT.

    Is it safe to say that the Instyle is basically the old iD, except that production has moved from Germany to Thailand, and that the Mystyle is the same, except that it includes personalized and POW optimizations?
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    OptiBoard Professional RT's Avatar
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    Correct on both points Robert.
    RT

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    Ghost in the OptiMachine OptiBoard Silver Supporter Quince's Avatar
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    From what I've been told, the digital surfacing is all about the programming. Yes the blade is more accurate but the bulk of advancement in the design is in the computing itself. The Sensity layer is newer (to the States at least) and is applied just as RT described. The booklet I was given lists the coating order as such:

    -repellent top layer
    -AR
    -HC
    -Sensity
    -lens
    -HC
    -AR
    -repellent

    Not Transitions brand. My thought for it being better for poly, is that with it being a top layer the photocromic aspect should act the same, where as poly trans usually takes longer to react compared to other materials. It is a similar concept to Younger's FT28 composite. The poly FT is given a top layer of Trivex trans so it is the Trivex is activated, not the poly.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quince View Post
    Not Transitions brand. My thought for it being better for poly, is that with it being a top layer the photocromic aspect should act the same, where as poly trans usually takes longer to react compared to other materials. It is a similar concept to Younger's FT28 composite. The poly FT is given a top layer of Trivex trans so it is the Trivex is activated, not the poly.
    The top layer of all poly trans products is not polycarbonate from my understanding. Trivex for the flattops and some other plastic type material for SV.

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